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Lady Fevre Dream

[BOOK SPOILERS] Nitpick Without Repercussion #2

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I tried to submit this once already, and I realized I had left out the Book Spoiler qualifier. I thought I'd try this take two on take two incase the missing book spoiler tag figures into the situation.



Watching House of Cards with Kevin Spacey led me to an observation. I love how his character gives the audience itself what seem like offhand comments of explanation and clarification. He gives a little turn to the camera in an almost off hand manner to clue the audience in on various things from his thoughts to even descriptions of other characters and their motivations.



My nitpick is this: As much as I enjoy Kevin Spacey, I wish the show would keep it's own continuity straight so I wouldn't have to wish for The Hound or Arya to break the fourth wall and turn to the camera and tell us.....exactly how the hell they did manage to get away from The Bloody Gate and back the way from which they came.



Whelp, nitpick away if the second thread gets approved as the first one was closed for length.

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No. Really, we don't want anyone talking to the audience, it's not that bad. LMAO.



I have no idea now where any discussions go? Casting is all over the place. Stoneheart is all over the place.



I'm back to leaning that we may get no fake Arya...that might be too much violence against women after the sept rape debacle and 'fuck them til their dead'..and what I still think was Ramsay killing his gf during sex that was cut. But, if no fake Arya, then we would need Lady Dustin...they would need some kind of female in that plot? Or I guess they could have fake Arya and not show any of the rape and sexual sadism, but not sure HBO has that kind of self restraint.


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No. Really, we don't want anyone talking to the audience, it's not that bad. LMAO.

I have no idea now where any discussions go? Casting is all over the place. Stoneheart is all over the place.

I'm back to leaning that we may get no fake Arya...that might be too much violence against women after the sept rape debacle and 'fuck them til their dead'..and what I still think was Ramsay killing his gf during sex that was cut. But, if no fake Arya, then we would need Lady Dustin...they would need some kind of female in that plot? Or I guess they could have fake Arya and not show any of the rape and sexual sadism, but not sure HBO has that kind of self restraint.

I agree, it's not that awful yet. Besides, if D&D tried such a thing, I suspect it'd be Tyrion doing the honors. After that beetle monologue, I'm gonna have to say......Thanks, but NO THANKS, LOL Besides, Kevin Spacey is one in a million, I'm not sure many could do the asides to the camera and audience as well as he does in HoC.

I am still ultra curious to find out if there is missing footage from The Dreadfort. I'm sorry, but the idea that any of us would want to see Sexy Times With Ramsey (no matter how it ends) seems much larger than a nitpick. I adore Lady Dustin and hope we do get her, but honestly, the lack of many familar Lords and Ladies from the North has always been an issue for me, too. I think they should have recast the Great Jon, the lack of familar faces for the RW has always been a nitpick of mine.

Who knows what goes where around here? LOL Considering this section is for the last episode of a season, I'm not surprised that threads around here are branching out. It's hard to talk about the last episode of a season without talking about previous and future episodes, both.

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I agree, it's not that awful yet. Besides, if D&D tried such a thing, I suspect it'd be Tyrion doing the honors. After that beetle monologue, I'm gonna have to say......Thanks, but NO THANKS, LOL Besides, Kevin Spacey is one in a million, I'm not sure many could do the asides to the camera and audience as well as he does in HoC.

I am still ultra curious to find out if there is missing footage from The Dreadfort. I'm sorry, but the idea that any of us would want to see Sexy Times With Ramsey (no matter how it ends) seems much larger than a nitpick. I adore Lady Dustin and hope we do get her, but honestly, the lack of many familar Lords and Ladies from the North has always been an issue for me, too. I think they should have recast the Great Jon, the lack of familar faces for the RW has always been a nitpick of mine.

Who knows what goes where around here? LOL Considering this section is for the last episode of a season, I'm not surprised that threads around here are branching out. It's hard to talk about the last episode of a season without talking about previous and future episodes, both.

They really dwelled on the Ramsay torture, so what would one more crazy sexualized torture scene be, when they already did half a dozen?

Does anyone know if the BF is back for next season? That would be a big clue on whether the riverlands plot stays or goes.

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No. Really, we don't want anyone talking to the audience, it's not that bad. LMAO.

I have no idea now where any discussions go? Casting is all over the place. Stoneheart is all over the place.

I'm back to leaning that we may get no fake Arya...that might be too much violence against women after the sept rape debacle and 'fuck them til their dead'..and what I still think was Ramsay killing his gf during sex that was cut. But, if no fake Arya, then we would need Lady Dustin...they would need some kind of female in that plot? Or I guess they could have fake Arya and not show any of the rape and sexual sadism, but not sure HBO has that kind of self restraint.

Without Jeyne Poole, a member of the Stark Household who Theon knew and remembered from his life as a Stark ward/hostage, as Ramsay's abused captive, Theon's arc loses a lot of resonance and richness. They don't have to even make her fake Arya, she could have been captured in Winterfell and brought to the Dreadfort. Ramsay or his underlings could be hurting her in a non-sexual way, constantly threatening her, beating her, etc., the way Sansa was abused in King's Landing; or they could make her Ramsay's fake-Arya bride as in the book.

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Without Jeyne Poole, a member of the Stark Household who Theon knew and remembered from his life as a Stark ward/hostage, as Ramsay's abused captive, Theon's arc loses a lot of resonance and richness. They don't have to even make her fake Arya, she could have been captured in Winterfell and brought to the Dreadfort. Ramsay or his underlings could be hurting her in a non-sexual way, constantly threatening her, beating her, etc., the way Sansa was abused in King's Landing; or they could make her Ramsay's fake-Arya bride as in the book.

I've generally maintained they would keep this element for all the reasons you state...but, they robbed the Tyrion/Tywin death scene of much of it's "bang" by not even throwing in a couple of lines about Tysha....so, I don't know anymore, and I would never have believed until they did it that they would have Brienne and the Hound in a death match over Arya who then rides away with Brienne and Pod clueless as to where she went.

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They really dwelled on the Ramsay torture, so what would one more crazy sexualized torture scene be, when they already did half a dozen?

Does anyone know if the BF is back for next season? That would be a big clue on whether the riverlands plot stays or goes.

I've been mourning the absence of the BF since his disappearance. I've wanted the Riverlands saga since I'd read Jaime's chapters and his interactions with The Black Fish. I do remember that he was said to be missing after the fiasco of the RW on the show, but that Walder Frey was supposedly given Riverrun? But, I've suspected that perhaps.....the BF could take Riverrun on the show and that would give us the almost same basic story beats. Whether that'll happen, I couldn't begin to guess. I can't imagine why they finally bothered with creating a bit of Riverrun on the show, and the opening credits, late as it was in S3, if they've never planned on returning. Meh, I can't figure them out.

See, a little House of Cards fourth Wall MIGHT work. Haha, wink wink.

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I've been mourning the absence of the BF since his disappearance. I've wanted the Riverlands saga since I'd read Jaime's chapters and his interactions with The Black Fish. I do remember that he was said to be missing after the fiasco of the RW on the show, but that Walder Frey was supposedly given Riverrun? But, I've suspected that perhaps.....the BF could take Riverrun on the show and that would give us the almost same basic story beats. Whether that'll happen, I couldn't begin to guess. I can't imagine why they finally bothered with creating a bit of Riverrun on the show, and the opening credits, late as it was in S3, if they've never planned on returning. Meh, I can't figure them out.

See, a little House of Cards fourth Wall MIGHT work. Haha, wink wink.

At one point, I took this stuff as signs of importance/inclusion...but after no Tysha in the penultimate moment...it's joker's wild time...so they may have cast the BF just for that season and we will never see him again, or it could be we will see him next season. Who can predict at this point when Brienne and the Hound had a death match in the Vale?

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My nitpick is this: As much as I enjoy Kevin Spacey, I wish the show would keep it's own continuity straight so I wouldn't have to wish for The Hound or Arya to break the fourth wall and turn to the camera and tell us.....exactly how the hell they did manage to get away from The Bloody Gate and back the way from which they came.

Yay! New thread, thanks. Yes, big complaint of mine, too. A good story doesn't make you fill in the blanks like this. Subtext is one thing, but filling in relevant plot details?

Maybe not break the fourth wall, but talk to each other. I'd rather see characters talk to each other than go in for out of character and character backtracking fucking (Jaime and Cersei) and fighting (Brienne and Sandor) that leaves the audience feeling empty. There are so many interesting story points they could talk about, in addition to revealing those very relevant details of how they all ended up where they are. If they must do fanfic, why must it be so superficial and meaningless.

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At one point, I took this stuff as signs of importance/inclusion...but after no Tysha in the penultimate moment...it's joker's wild time...so they may have cast the BF just for that season and we will never see him again, or it could be we will see him next season. Who can predict at this point when Brienne and the Hound had a death match in the Vale?

Who can predict anything after the death match in the Vale. Joker's wild time.

And that's another storytelling flaw, just letting things go for an entire season, and sometimes forever, so even if you are the most attentive viewer who wants to hold onto this moment two seasons ago when something or someone mattered to someone, you never know if it will ever matter to them or anyone again.

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Who can predict anything after the death match in the Vale. Joker's wild time.

And that's another storytelling flaw, just letting things go for an entire season, and sometimes forever, so even if you are the most attentive viewer who wants to hold onto this moment two seasons ago when something or someone mattered to someone, you never know if it will ever matter to them or anyone again.

at one time i had an expectation that they should be introducing a lot of characters much earlier....giving them really short cameos and then mentioning them a few times. i gave up on the cameo idea assuming it was too logistically difficult w/casting and $$. but i still don't understand why they don't do a better job with at least TRYING to keep the audience clued in.

They could have thrown in one line somewhere this season where somebody mentions the blackfish, right, that he's still on the loose? That doesnt' cost money. If they are going to actually cast the one of the Greyjoy brothers...they might have put in a scene with "Asha" and Balon somewhere...2 or 3 minutes. I'm sure they could have shaved that off of Dany fixing Missandei's hair....

This was on reason I thought we might get Stoneheart, because they kept on mentioning Cat Stark....so often, it seemed that it had to have some meaning or purpose. But, I guess not.

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I think they'd be insane to cut out fake Arya. It's the whole excuse for taking Winterfell and holding the North. It's the only reason the North is following Stannis. Roose and Ramsay think it's their big opportunity. It's Theon's salvation. That's like, the entire story in the North (S of the Wall). The Northeners don't care about a Lannister/Baratheon proclamation espec since they beheaded Ned. Winterfell is one of the places a bunch of people are meeting up and Fake Arya is the key. (Also, torture and nudity.)

I guess D & D could try to cobble up a better story line but WHY? It's right there!

It would be equivalent to taking the dragons out of Meereen (another place people are converging). If they aren't there, nothing happens.

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Who can predict anything after the death match in the Vale. Joker's wild time.

And that's another storytelling flaw, just letting things go for an entire season, and sometimes forever, so even if you are the most attentive viewer who wants to hold onto this moment two seasons ago when something or someone mattered to someone, you never know if it will ever matter to them or anyone again.

Come on, trying to match the books with the show, the Brienne-Hound fight was great! No doubt where his leg wound is and how deadly it is - it's a very dirty open fracture. I can just imagine the book reader anguish if they'd turned it into a festering bite on the neck. Also, in character and a lot of fun. So all in all I liked it for a little book-show bridging and character development aside from the action. I don't care what the guards at BG were thinking. They are extras.

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I think they'd be insane to cut out fake Arya. It's the whole excuse for taking Winterfell and holding the North. It's the only reason the North is following Stannis. Roose and Ramsay think it's their big opportunity. It's Theon's salvation. That's like, the entire story in the North (S of the Wall). The Northeners don't care about a Lannister/Baratheon proclamation espec since they beheaded Ned. Winterfell is one of the places a bunch of people are meeting up and Fake Arya is the key. (Also, torture and nudity.)

I guess D & D could try to cobble up a better story line but WHY? It's right there!

It would be equivalent to taking the dragons out of Meereen (another place people are converging). If they aren't there, nothing happens.

I have said this all along too. But, now I'm not so sure. These are the people who think Brienne in KL not talking to Sansa, Brienne meeting Arya and the Hound and fighting the Hound to the death and then losing Arya anyway is an improvement.

I can't predict them anymore. On the one hand, they like surprises, so springing a crazy fake Arya wedding without a lick of foreshadowing is right in line with how they do things....despite that a huge number of people now know for a fact that Arya Stark is alive..Mel and Stannis know it, Stannis, the guy in the North....looking for Northern allies [OOPS Plot problem], every Tom, Dick and Harry in the Vale knows it, Brienne of Tarth knows it...so, fake Arya after all of that is sort of stupid....

But, with no fake Arya, what will they do in Winterfell? How will Theon redeem himself? Save some random red shirt girl? I have no idea.

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Matchy matchy scenes are another one. One character says or does something in one episode. Another character says does the same thing in the next. Ah, that's coming back to haunt him. Or look at the cool way that played out.

It's too obvious. And too artificial. The match game. The fans match up the various scenes, and you know they are matching some of them up wrong. They just know the matching game is on, so they are looking for anything.

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I have said this all along too. But, now I'm not so sure. These are the people who think Brienne in KL not talking to Sansa, Brienne meeting Arya and the Hound and fighting the Hound to the death and then losing Arya anyway is an improvement.

I can't predict them anymore. On the one hand, they like surprises, so springing a crazy fake Arya wedding without a lick of foreshadowing is right in line with how they do things....despite that a huge number of people now know for a fact that Arya Stark is alive..Mel and Stannis know it, Stannis, the guy in the North....looking for Northern allies [OOPS Plot problem], every Tom, Dick and Harry in the Vale knows it, Brienne of Tarth knows it...so, fake Arya after all of that is sort of stupid....

But, with no fake Arya, what will they do in Winterfell? How will Theon redeem himself? Save some random red shirt girl? I have no idea.

I was so mad they snuck Mel in there to snatch Gendry I forgot that. Well they don't know it's Fake Arya who ends up at Winterfell. For all anyone but Brienne and Pod know the Hound sold her to the Lannisters or the Dreadfort. Unless I forgot something else. Brienne and Pod have no idea where she is but she was last seen in the North.

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And now that I think about, while I didn't initially disapprove of giving Stannis his mercenary army now...it will take a whole layer of meaning out of the march on Winterfell....because theyr'e mercenaries...nobody is going to want to wash in Bolton blood and strike one for Ned's little girl. It removes all trace or relation to the Stark family out of what is to come.



So, good one, D&D.

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I was so mad they snuck Mel in there to snatch Gendry I forgot that. Well they don't know it's Fake Arya who ends up at Winterfell. For all anyone but Brienne and Pod know the Hound sold her to the Lannisters or the Dreadfort. Unless I forgot something else. Brienne and Pod have no idea where she is but she was last seen in the North.

It's weak. All of these people have SEEN her. Mel has seen her. In the books no one outside the BWB who knew who she was had seen her for years, there was no one who could have positively proven that she was a fake except outlaws, whose word could be ignored.

In the show, multiple people of noble birth have seen her and could ID her, as well as Vale soldiers and Stannis Baratheon's right hand woman. So, a fake Arya plot would be unbelievably easy to foil....outside of TV pretend land where the laws of reality are ignored.

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It's weak. All of these people have SEEN her. Mel has seen her. In the books no one outside the BWB who knew who she was had seen her for years, there was no one who could have positively proven that she was a fake except outlaws, whose word could be ignored.

In the show, multiple people of noble birth have seen her and could ID her, as well as Vale soldiers and Stannis Baratheon's right hand woman. So, a fake Arya plot would be unbelievably easy to foil....outside of TV pretend land where the laws of reality are ignored.

They've seen her but they don't know where she IS

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