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Lost Melnibonean

Some Questions About Jon and Bran's Hookup on the Weirnet...

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This passage is read just before Jon sees the Wilding host in the Frostfangs through wolf dream with Ghost

Jon did not think sleep would come easily, but he knew the Halfhand was right. He found a place out of the wind, beneath an overhang of rock, and took off his cloak to use it for a blanket. Ghost, he called. Here. To me. He always slept better with the great white wolf beside him; there was comfort in the smell of him, and welcome warmth in that shaggy pale fur. This time, though, Ghost did no more than look at him. Then he turned away and padded around the garrons, and quick as that he was gone. He wants to hunt, Jon thought. Perhaps there were goats in these mountains. The shadowcats must live on something. Just don't try and bring down a cat, he muttered. Even for a direwolf, that would be dangerous. He tugged his cloak over him and stretched out beneath the rock.

Jon VII, Clash

Did Bloodraven slip into Ghost here and lead him away from Jon and to the Wilding host?

When he closed his eyes, he dreamed of direwolves.

There were five of them when there should have been six, and they were scattered, each apart from the others. He felt a deep ache of emptiness, a sense of incompleteness. The forest was vast and cold, and they were so small, so lost. His brothers were out there somewhere, and his sister, but he had lost their scent. He sat on his haunches and lifted his head to the darkening sky, and his cry echoed through the forest, a long lonely mournful sound. As it died away, he pricked up his ears, listening for an answer, but the only sound was the sigh of blowing snow.

Jon VII, Clash

I dont believe this passage shows that the Wall blocks warging since its followed by Jon and Bran encountering each other while wolf dreaming and greenseeing, respectively. I think it shows that Jon and Ghost each miss and are worried about their siblings.

This passage is one of the trippiest in the whole series, right up there with the hooded man and the Bridge of Dream

Jon?

The call came from behind him, softer than a whisper, but strong too. Can a shout be silent? He turned his head, searching for his brother, for a glimpse of a lean grey shape moving beneath the trees, but there was nothing, only . . .

A weirwood.

Jon VII, Clash

So Bran is talking to Jon through a weirwood while Jon is having a wolfdream with Ghost

It seemed to sprout from solid rock, its pale roots twisting up from a myriad of fissures and hairline cracks. The tree was slender compared to other weirwoods he had seen, no more than a sapling, yet it was growing as he watched, its limbs thickening as they reached for the sky.

Jon VII, Clash

This is odd because the George had just indicated earlier in the chapter that they were above the tree line, and we know from the Arryns attempts to have a godswood in the Eyrie that weirwoods dont grow above the tree line. (All they could get to grow was some shrubbery, right?)

Wary, he circled the smooth white trunk until he came to the face. Red eyes looked at him. Fierce eyes they were, yet glad to see him. The weirwood had his brothers face. Had his brother always had three eyes?

Not always, came the silent shout. Not before the crow.

He sniffed at the bark, smelled wolf and tree and boy, but behind that there were other scents, the rich brown smell of warm earth and the hard grey smell of stone and something else, something terrible. Death, he knew. He was smelling death. He cringed back, his hair bristling, and bared his fangs.

Jon VII, Clash

So, now we know that Bran is greenseeing after having his third eye opened by Bloodraven, and that the lines between Bran and the weirwoods and Summer have kind of blurred. The earth, stone, and death are a hint that Bran was not killed by Theon but is hiding down in the Winterfell crypts.

Don't be afraid, I like it in the dark.

Jon VII, Clash

That compares interestingly with Bloodraven telling Bran to use the dark, and Qhorin telling Jon that shadows are friends to the Nights Watch.

No one can see you, but you can see them. But first you have to open your eyes. See? Like this. And the tree reached down and touched him.

Jon VII, Clash

That was weird because nobody opened Aryas third eye. But this is really weird

And suddenly he was back in the mountains, his paws sunk deep in a drift of snow as he stood upon the edge of a great precipice. Before him the Skirling Pass opened up into airy emptiness, and a long vee-shaped valley lay spread beneath him like a quilt, awash in all the colors of an autumn afternoon.

Jon VII, Clash

Then, Jon sees the wilding host through Ghosts eyes before Orells eagle attacks Ghost. So, was Ghost magically transported from one location to another? Was the weirwood above the tree line actually in Jon/Ghosts consciousness rather than a physical location?

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A couple of points:

Bran's green seeing allows him to see back in time. In the books, there was even a hint that he could talk through the weirwood back in time. He called out to his father, and his father heard, though the words were not completely intelligible yet, this being the first time Bran tried to tree talk.

So what Jon saw at the weirwood was not so much a physical displacement of Ghost, but a dream of a different time, in the future, when Bran was in a dark cave full of sculls and bones (smell of death) and when his ability to talk through trees had progressed.

Then the dream shifted back to the present, where Ghost actually was and what he saw.

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So what Jon saw at the weirwood was not so much a physical displacement of Ghost, but a dream of a different time, in the future, when Bran was in a dark cave full of sculls and bones (smell of death) and when his ability to talk through trees had progressed.

Nope, in his last chapter in ACoK Bran remembered this shared dream with Jon. No time-travel, Bran's abilities were enhanced by sense-deprivation in the crypts and he was able to reach his brother when sleeping.

Whether Bloodraven was somehow steering this event and led Ghost to the spot where he could observe the wildlings is another question entirely and one that can't be answered at this point.

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Nope, in his last chapter in ACoK Bran remembered this shared dream with Jon. No time-travel, Bran's abilities were enhanced by sense-deprivation in the crypts and he was able to reach his brother when sleeping.Whether Bloodraven was somehow steering this event and led Ghost to the spot where he could observe the wildlings is another question entirely and one that can't be answered at this point.

There has to be a time jump for Ghost to be at a weirwood one minute, and in the Frostfangs looking over the ridge at the army in the next. The latter was what Ghost was really doing while Jon was having a wolf dream. The former was more like a green dream or time jump.

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The first part of the dream was not physical reality, as when Ghost saw the wildlings, but some sort of dreamscape. For one thing Ghost howled (he is mute) and obviously Bran is not a fast growing weirwood. Also Jon was self-aware as in a regular dream as opposed to skinchanging. Bran inadvertently contacted Jon and helped him warg, in a subconscious manifestation of his latent abilities.



Ghost has done a lot of things that were inexplicable for, including finding the cache of dragonglass. If someone is guiding him to do these things the most likely candidate is Bloodraven.


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Bran can time jump though, so it could just as easily be future Bran. He talked to his father through the leaves....in the past!

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In Bran's final aCoK chapter he recalls the dream and communicating with Jon. It seems to me that he communicated via the Weirwood dream where Jon sees the tree growing, and this helps Jon open his mind to Ghost and see through Ghost's eyes from.where he physically is - the Milkwater valley

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Bran can time jump though, so it could just as easily be future Bran. He talked to his father through the leaves....in the past!

You think there was an actual fast growing talking weirwood in the real world that Jon talked to?

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You think there was an actual fast growing talking weirwood in the real world that Jon talked to?

I don't know, but Brienne saw a weirwood sapling on Crackclaw point. Bran joining the weirnet might have actually provoked some new trees to start growing. That was the suggestion of that sapling.

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I don't know, but Brienne saw a weirwood sapling on Crackclaw point. Bran joining the weirnet might have actually provoked some new trees to start growing. That was the suggestion of that sapling.

Visibly growing in a matter of seconds? Physically talking? Moving its branches to touch people?

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Visibly growing in a matter of seconds? Physically talking? Moving its branches to touch people?

It was a dream, that much is clear. It had the same character as Bran's raven dreams. It showed Bran for what he is becoming.

But it was a direct communication from Bran to Jon, and since he can do this in the past, it could be future Bran.

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But it was a direct communication from Bran to Jon, and since he can do this in the past, it could be future Bran.

No, it couldn't be, because the "present" Bran recalled this dream in ACoK - the very same book where Jon had this dream too. We also have no idea whether Bran can do this in the past - the wind thing in vision of Ned could have been a coincidence. Or maybe Bran was just manipulating his own vision, rather than the past itself.

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Now, it couldn't be, because the "present" Bran recalled this dream in ACoK - the very same book where Jon had this dream too. We also have no idea whether Bran can do this in the past - the wind thing in vision of Ned could have been a coincidence. Or maybe Bran was just manipulating his own vision, rather than the past itself.

Agreed about Bran and Jon's vision. He has already accounted for it.

As for Bran's vision of his father, I think he did cause the leaves to rustle, just that it wasn't a change. Ned did hear the leaves rustling all those years ago, it just so happens that the cause was his as yet unborn son from fifteen years later. In the same sense if a future Bran can effect the story he has already done so. It may be that a future Bran is responsible for the things we have already seen in the series.

Or not. Just that given Martin's SF background I wouldn't rule it out.

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Nobody answered this from the OP...

Did Bloodraven slip into Ghost here and lead him away from Jon and to the Wilding host?

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Bloodraven don't give a hoot about Jon ,its all about Bran.

Well, Im not so sure, as Mormonts raven seems to say interesting words around Jon. Bran is BR's successor, and as such warrants more immediate attention, but Id say that Jon is a major piece on BR's board, and likely knows R+L=J.

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Nobody answered this from the OP...

Did Bloodraven slip into Ghost here and lead him away from Jon and to the Wilding host?

No

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