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Tysha's New Man

You're no son of mine...

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Do you think Tywin's last words are meant as an insult to Tyrion or towards the possible revelation of whom we think may really be Tyrion's father? What do you think?


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Just moments before he said that he was his son. Tywin also said this back in season one when he wanted Tyrion to go be hand-of-the-king. He was trying to manipulate him into doing what he wanted. We see different tactics of manipulation from Balon and Roose. After Tyrion shoots his father, Tywin then says that he is not his son because he is pissed and wanted to hurt Tyrion a bit.


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If Tyrion's not a Lannister that would be the greatest plot twist ever seen in the series, and maybe the biggest plot hole because it wpuld raise many questions... :uhoh:


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If Tyrion isn't a Lannister and Tywin's son, whose birth killed Tywin's wife and Cersie's mother, then it undermines some of the best character drama is the book and show.


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If Tyrion isn't a Lannister and Tywin's son, whose birth killed Tywin's wife and Cersie's mother, then it undermines some of the best character drama is the book and show.

No, it doesn't. Show Tywin said something like "since I cannot prove you are not mine". Might be he always had his doubts. Even if Tyrion was a Targ (which I do not believe) he had his emotional attachment to Tywin. Otherwise it's like saying adopted children are not real children.

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No, it doesn't. Show Tywin said something like "since I cannot prove you are not mine". Might be he always had his doubts. Even if Tyrion was a Targ (which I do not believe) he had his emotional attachment to Tywin. Otherwise it's like saying adopted children are not real children.

What?

I meant Cersie hates Tyrion because he killed her mum, Tywin dislikes Tyrion because he killed his wife and because a dwarf does not live up to Tywin's ideal of a Lannister man. If Tyrion is not a Lannister, then Cersie and Tywin's emotional viewpoints are pointless and Tyrion's main emotional arc for the 1st 3 books and first 4 series is also pointless.

Why would Tywin be so displeased with Tyrion if Tyrion wasn't his son? Why would Cersie hate him if he didn't actually come from her mother's womb? All that intricate character drama would be discarded if Tyrion was not a Lannister born of Tywin and his wife.

The only reason Tywin didn't kill Tyrion at birth was because Tyrion is a Lannister and his son. I doubt Tywin would raise an adopted dwarf if he feels like that. I doubt Tywin would have bothered to keep Tyrion if he doubted Tyrion was actually a product of his own sperm, also. Tywin just isn't that kind of guy.

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Tyrion just shot him. Who WOULDN'T disown their child at that point? I doubt seriously he was going to start into a conversation about who Tyrion's biological father is at that point.

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Wait. I was under the imp





Why would Tywin be so displeased with Tyrion if Tyrion wasn't his son? Why would Cersie hate him if he didn't actually come from her mother's womb? All that intricate character drama would be discarded if Tyrion was not a Lannister born of Tywin and his wife.




Wait. I was under the impression that Tyrion is a secret Targ means he is the son of Aerys and Joanna. -> No change in Cersei - Tyrion dynamics. If so, Tywin died before anyone found out. So no change there either.


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Also, if Tywin actually knew that Tyrion wasn't his biological son, he would have killed him then and there.

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If Tyrion is not Tywin's son in the books it'd absolve him from the serious accusation of being a kinslayer and he wouldn't have to deal with all of the very interesting feelings and issues of having killed his father and the whole relationship would essentially become totally meaningless to me. depending on how it's done in the books this could be the absolute worst soap opera twist and it's a trope that I absolutely despise.


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Aerys was supposed to have a thing for Joanna Lannister. But yes, if Tywin knew Tyrion wasn't his, that would've been it for him. There's other evidence in the novels, but I won't get into that here.


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Wait. I was under the imp

Wait. I was under the impression that Tyrion is a secret Targ means he is the son of Aerys and Joanna. -> No change in Cersei - Tyrion dynamics. If so, Tywin died before anyone found out. So no change there either.

yes but if Tyrion is a secret Targ it will be corny Soap Opera BS, as Beric 175 pointed out.

Tyrion is Tywin's son - he is so much Tywin's son that he is almost a dwarf version of Tywin. And that is what Tywin hates about him - Tywin hates seeing the most mentally able of his children being a dwarf. Tywin would have given anything for Tyrion's mind to be in Jamie's body, Tywin's hatred comes from a place of love and respect that he can't reconcile into his view of the world.

Now, as to who Jamie and Cersie's dad was... some of Tywin's hatred of Tyrion may just come from another place that has not been made clear in the books, or the show.

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Do you think Tywin's last words are meant as an insult to Tyrion or towards the possible revelation of whom we think may really be Tyrion's father? What do you think?

Oh for fucks sake

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"Some men would rather deny a hard truth then face it," Tyrion said to Jon. From my memory, anyways.



At his very end Tywin proved to be the type to deny the truth, that yes, his son was a dwarf in a society that saw deformities as curses from the gods.


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I just re-watched this episode for like the 5th time. I'm convinced this scene (and much of season 4, for that matter) is evidence towards the fact that Tyrion is a Targ.



Breaking down the dialogue a little, Tyrion says "You've wanted me dead my entire life", to which Tywin answers "Yes"...


Tyrion says "You knew I didn't poison Joffrey, but you sentenced me to die all the same. Why?"



Tywin tries to diffuse the situation and skirt around the issue of why he's wanted Tyrion dead his whole life is because he's never wanted to admit to anyone that Tyrion is Aerys' son. As he says earlier in the season, he can't prove Tyrion isn't his (the implication being that he suspects it). Tywin being Tywin ties to appease Tyrion by rhetorically telling him he wouldn't kill his own father on the toilet... I just feel like that line in particular is just a pure example of Tywin trying to manipulate the situation (i.e. lying), and only when Tyrion shoots him and it no longer matters does Tywin utter the truth and confirm his suspicions saying "you are no son of mine". At least that's how I took it.

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No Westerosi DNA tests (aside from one's ability to mount a dragon, probably) so he could never be sure. I always felt like those few particular lines in the show served to address the possibility that a+j=t. We just can't be sure.



I buy it. Maybe I'm a fool but after reading the WoIAF I'm even more convinced.


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I've never bought this. Not that I've read WoIAF, but Tywin also tells Jaime in the same book (ASOS) that he is not his son, after Jaime refuses to leave the Kingsguard.


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