Small questions v. 10084

[Lady Blizzardborn]

From the Westerlands reading, we know that

In 236 AC, the fourth Blackfyre Rebellion, helmed by Daemon III, landed at Massey’s Hook. The Blackfyres had very little support, however, as people thought the Blackfyres to be done, as tattered as their banners. Tion died at the Battle of Wendwater Bridge. At the same battle, Duncan the Tall slew Daemon III Blackfyre. Bittersteel retreated across the Narrow Sea again, and the war was quickly over. - From the Westerlands reading.

Daemon III is likely the grandson of Daemon I, as Daemon II was his son. It would be odd to have two Daemon Targaryens in the same generation. So by 236 AC, it seems likely that Haegon was dead, or else he would have led the Rebellion with Bittersteel, being the next Blackfyre "heir".

If we assume the Mystery Knight was the Second Blackfyre Rebellion, then Haegon may have died in the third Blackfyre Rebellion.

Thanks, Helena! I don't suppose it's possible that he just didn't want the throne for himself? Really all I want to know is if was old enough to have reproduced before dying.

[RumHam]

Thanks, Helena! I don't suppose it's possible that he just didn't want the throne for himself? Really all I want to know is if was old enough to have reproduced before dying.

It's totally possible that he thought continued attempts to take the Iron Throne were foolish and wanted to part in them. Still there must have been a Blackfyre pretender for that third rebellion, and Haegon is the obvious candidate.

[Lady Blizzardborn]

It's totally possible that he thought continued attempts to take the Iron Throne were foolish and wanted to part in them. Still there must have been a Blackfyre pretender for that third rebellion, and Haegon is the obvious candidate.

That makes sense, but I thought it was Maelys the Monstrous. Or was his death separate from a rebellion?

[not in the face]

That makes sense, but I thought it was Maelys the Monstrous. Or was his death separate from a rebellion?

Maelys was the last Blackfyre pretender and he died in the War of the Ninepenny kings well after these other rebellions.

[Ser Leftwich]

She moose, yes. He has trouble with his s's, so if you replace them woth the th sound you get thee-mooth

The method I use when reading is to just gently bite your tongue and sound it out. Then say the same thing without biting your tongue.

[Russellstiltskin]

I am still new to the books, relatively speaking (almost done with aCoK on 1st reread) and just got The Mystery Knight. At the beginning, when Dunk and Egg are discussing Bloodraven, I couldn't help but make a few connections (still having fun trying to figure stuff out, even if it's not there to figure out :) ), but I have no idea if they're legit.

So, these seemed like small questions:

1) When it's mentioned that BR is an albino (I know that was known, but reading it just got me thinking), I couldn't help but wonder if there is a connection between The Ghost of High Heart (iirc) and him? There's a few things to suggest this as a possibility but I probably would have dismissed it already (I mean, not all albinos are related, right?) but I've always wondered what she meant when she says something like (iirc) "I've had enough of grief. I gorged on grief at Summerhall." I always wondered what her connect was with Summerhall, so I guess I'm wondering if anyone knows of theories involving these two?

2) Oh, and does anyone know who BR's mother was? Or either of tGoHH's parents?

3) Was this the first mention that his foes are hunted by a pack of wolves?

4) When it's mentioned that BR can turn into a one-eyed dog, any connect between this and the three-eyed animals mentioned in aSoIaF? I know there's a cat in KL, the wolf North of the Wall, and doesn't Ramsay have a one-eyed dog? I can't remember and don't have the e-books.

So thanks to anyone that can offer any direction to my musings, such as they are... :read:

[HexMachina]

On Bloodraven:

Spoilers, because I will be direct.

He is the Three Eyed Crow who is teaching Bran North of the Wall

His mother was Melissa(?) "Missy" Blackwood, one of the mistress of Aegon IV. He is therefore one of the Great Bastards of Aegon IV. He hated his half brother, Bittersteel, who's mother was a Bracken, and the mistress of Aegon IV before Melissa. Bloodraven fought against Bittersteel and Daemon in the Blaclfyre Rebellion's. For an unknown reason, King Maelar had him.imprisoned. Years later, he travels to the Wall with Aegon V and Maester Aemon, joining the Watch and eventually becoming LC. Its unknown when he disappears, but he does, and.he is currently the 3 eyed crow

He is almost certainly Maynard Plumm in TMK

Many think he skinchanges Mormomts raven or even Ghost from.time to time

On the Ghost of High Heart:

What we know is that she is an albino dwarf woman. It seems she is the woods witch that Jenny of Oldstones, the wife of Prince Duncan the Small, brought to Court. Jenny and Prince Duncan the Small were both at Summerhall, so.the GoHH likely was too. Since many died at Summerhall (Aegon V, LC Duncan the Tall, Jenny, Prince Duncan the Small etc) its not surprising she "gorged on grief)

[Russellstiltskin]

I keep meaning to ask, is there a specific reason given, directly or indirectly, why Tyrion forgoes Littlefinger's punishment? He seems rather sure of the fact that LF was indirectly behind his arrest, and (iirc) at one point he says something like "My knife? Never mine." And then thinks that LF knows that he knows, but that Tyrion "can't touch him." Is this simply because the Lannister's are making use of him and the war is ongoing? I was surprised he was able to escape some retribution, especially if Tyrion knows his role in his arrest...did I miss something?

[Russellstiltskin]

On Bloodraven:

Spoilers, because I will be direct.

He is the Three Eyed Crow who is teaching Bran North of the Wall

His mother was Melissa(?) "Missy" Blackwood, one of the mistress of Aegon IV. He is therefore one of the Great Bastards of Aegon IV. He hated his half brother, Bittersteel, who's mother was a Bracken, and the mistress of Aegon IV before Melissa. Bloodraven fought against Bittersteel and Daemon in the Blaclfyre Rebellion's. For an unknown reason, King Maelar had him.imprisoned. Years later, he travels to the Wall with Aegon V and Maester Aemon, joining the Watch and eventually becoming LC. Its unknown when he disappears, but he does, and.he is currently the 3 eyed crow

He is almost certainly Maynard Plumm in TMK

Many think he skinchanges Mormomts raven or even Ghost from.time to time

On the Ghost of High Heart:

What we know is that she is an albino dwarf woman. It seems she is the woods witch that Jenny of Oldstones, the wife of Prince Duncan the Small, brought to Court. Jenny and Prince Duncan the Small were both at Summerhall, so.the GoHH likely was too. Since many died at Summerhall (Aegon V, LC Duncan the Tall, Jenny, Prince Duncan the Small etc) its not surprising she "gorged on grief)

Thanks, and again for the Spoiler tags, I'm not done reading tMK, and I'm guessing that's what you're referring to. :) But I've gotten through the novels.

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

I'll use a spoiler tag, since Russelstiltskin hasn't finished the D&E's yet, and I'm referring to something in Helena's spoiler tags ;)

it is never specifically stated that it was Maekar who had Bloodraven arrested, IIRC. Only that Bloodraven ended up in the Black Cells and was send to the Wall by Egg in 233AC.

[Nymeria's Wrath]

I don't know if this is a small question, but I'll try anyway.... :

Do we know for certain that Coldhands is NOT Benjen Stark?

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

I don't know if this is a small question, but I'll try anyway.... :

Do we know for certain that Coldhands is NOT Benjen Stark?

Leaf states that Coldhands had been dead for a long time. Benjen Stark would have been missing for 2 years at that point. That's not all that long, especially not for a person of 200 years old.

Further, you'd think that Bran would have recognized the voice...

[Bori]

I'll use a spoiler tag, since Russelstiltskin hasn't finished the D&E's yet, and I'm referring to something in Helena's spoiler tags ;)

it is never specifically stated that it was Maekar who had Bloodraven arrested, IIRC. Only that Bloodraven ended up in the Black Cells and was send to the Wall by Egg in 233AC.

I think I don't understand it...I'm not sure BR was sent to the Wall, or even whether he was really in the Black Cells...

We have Aemon's tale

Egg wanted me to help him rule, but I knew my place was here. He sent me north aboard the Golden Dragon, and insisted that his friend Ser Duncan see me safe to Eastwatch. No recruit had arrived at the Wall with so much pomp since Nymeria sent the Watch six kings in golden fetters. Egg emptied out the dungeons too, so I would not need to say my vows alone. My honor guard, he called them. One was no less a man than Brynden Rivers. Later he was chosen lord commander

The way Aemon single him out suggests that he was also a prisoner. On the other hand, is it possible that he was singled out as another prominent member of Aemon's honor guard, like Dunk? "Egg emptied out the dungeons, too" suggesting that there might be members of his honor guard who were not prisoners.

Is there any other mention that BR was imprisoned in the Black Cells? I vaguely remember something about it, but I don't know where it was...

Let's say he was really imprisoned:

1) It was Maekar who imprisoned him.

If so, he was let out right after Maekar died and really quickly rose to power, since shortly after

he led the Great Council who chose Egg as king. But then BR was not a prisoner when Egg sends Aemon to the Wall,

so it contradicts Aemon's story.

2) He was imprisoned by Egg after the Great Council.

After Maekar died, BR and the Council offered the crown to Aemon, who declined it, so they chose Egg. Egg's answer to this was to immediately imprison the leader ot the council who chose him? I don't think so, but maybe.

2a) If Egg thought that BR wanted Aemon to be king, he might be afraid BR will try it again. But 1- it's a bit out of character. 2- Egg himself asked Aemon to help him rule, so he was not afraid of Aemon's claim. 3- When Aemon declines this and chose to go to the Wall, it does not make sense to send BR there, too.

2b) Bloodraven did something during/before the Great Council but after Maekar's death which forced Egg to imprison him independently of his contribution in Egg's succession. But what?

So, who imprisoned him? (if anybody)

[HexMachina]

I think I don't understand it...I'm not sure BR was sent to the Wall, or even whether he was really in the Black Cells...

We have Aemon's tale

The way Aemon single him out suggests that he was also a prisoner. On the other hand, is it possible that he was singled out as another prominent member of Aemon's honor guard, like Dunk? "Egg emptied out the dungeons, too" suggesting that there might be members of his honor guard who were not prisoners.

Is there any other mention that BR was imprisoned in the Black Cells? I vaguely remember something about it, but I don't know where it was...

Let's say he was really imprisoned:

1) It was Maekar who imprisoned him.

If so, he was let out right after Maekar died and really quickly rose to power, since shortly after

he led the Great Council who chose Egg as king. But then BR was not a prisoner when Egg sends Aemon to the Wall,

so it contradicts Aemon's story.

2) He was imprisoned by Egg after the Great Council.

After Maekar died, BR and the Council offered the crown to Aemon, who declined it, so they chose Egg. Egg's answer to this was to immediately imprison the leader ot the council who chose him? I don't think so, but maybe.

2a) If Egg thought that BR wanted Aemon to be king, he might be afraid BR will try it again. But 1- it's a bit out of character. 2- Egg himself asked Aemon to help him rule, so he was not afraid of Aemon's claim. 3- When Aemon declines this and chose to go to the Wall, it does not make sense to send BR there, too.

2b) Bloodraven did something during/before the Great Council but after Maekar's death which forced Egg to imprison him independently of his contribution in Egg's succession. But what?

So, who imprisoned him? (if anybody)

According to Ran and Linda he was imprisoned. In their reveiw of S4 E10, they did a 15 minute discussion at the end about Bloodraven. At one point they mention he was imprisoned, but that we (the readers) do not know why. From the way the talk of it, they seem to know, so I imagine it is going to be included in the WOIAF

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

Bloodraven was certainly imprisoned. I'm saying that we don't know who imprisoned him. Maekar always seemed like an obvious choice, since he doesn't like Bloodraven at all, but seeing as how Bloodraven was present at the Great Council in 232/233AC, that suggests (to me at least) that it might not have been Maekar who had imprisoned him. If Maekar had imprisoned Bloodraven (who held a considerable amount of power at court during Aerys' reign, compared to Maekar, who seems to have been disliked somewhat), he would have done so with reasons. Reasons that would needed to be given to the public. If Bloodraven truly had been accused of a crime worthy of the Black Cells, he would not, and could not, simply be freed upon Maekar's death to choose Maekar's successor.

Also, Maekar reigned from 221AC until 232AC. I don't think any prisoner has been in the Black Cells that long ;) The Black Cells are more for those who are to be executed, or send to the Wall, like Ned, and Tyrion. For those accused of murder or high treason.

I don't remember where the Black Cells bit came from.. Perhaps an SSM?

The quote by maester Aemon simply means that Egg send Aemon north, and those from the dungeons as well, hence the too.

[Bori]

Bloodraven was certainly imprisoned. I'm saying that we don't know who imprisoned him. Maekar always seemed like an obvious choice, since he doesn't like Bloodraven at all, but seeing as how Bloodraven was present at the Great Council in 232/233AC, that suggests (to me at least) that it might not have been Maekar who had imprisoned him. If Maekar had imprisoned Bloodraven (who held a considerable amount of power at court during Aerys' reign, compared to Maekar, who seems to have been disliked somewhat), he would have done so with reasons. Reasons that would needed to be given to the public. If Bloodraven truly had been accused of a crime worthy of the Black Cells, he would not, and could not, simply be freed upon Maekar's death to choose Maekar's successor.

Also, Maekar reigned from 221AC until 232AC. I don't think any prisoner has been in the Black Cells that long ;) The Black Cells are more for those who are to be executed, or send to the Wall, like Ned, and Tyrion. For those accused of murder or high treason.

I don't remember where the Black Cells bit came from.. Perhaps an SSM?

The quote by maester Aemon simply means that Egg send Aemon north, and those from the dungeons as well, hence the too.

cannot agree more!

But we won't know until the WOIAF is released so, *sits back and (im)patiently waits October*

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

cannot agree more!

But we won't know until the WOIAF is released so, *sits back and (im)patiently waits October*

Indeed. In October, the problem is going to be "which part to read first?"..

[aryagonnakill#2]

I keep meaning to ask, is there a specific reason given, directly or indirectly, why Tyrion forgoes Littlefinger's punishment? He seems rather sure of the fact that LF was indirectly behind his arrest, and (iirc) at one point he says something like "My knife? Never mine." And then thinks that LF knows that he knows, but that Tyrion "can't touch him." Is this simply because the Lannister's are making use of him and the war is ongoing? I was surprised he was able to escape some retribution, especially if Tyrion knows his role in his arrest...did I miss something?

Its basically a plot hole, Tyrion thinks to himself that 4 out of every 5 men in positions regarding finance are lowborn people who owe their positions to LF. He also thinks that LF is great at his job and that the realm is in debt so he just thinks to himself that he will wait until after the war. I suppose this means that later when Tyrion tests LF Varys and Pycelle to see who informs his sister, Tyrion would not have acted had it been LF. So basically its a plot hole, Tyrion is 1 of the 7 smartest people we have been introduced to, I personally see no real reason to have kept him alive.

[HexMachina]

A freckled novice filled their cups with hot spiced wine. “Tommen tells me that Lord Tyrell intends to rebuild the Tower of the Hand,” Cersei said.

Ser Kevan nodded. “The new tower will be twice as tall as the one you burned, he says.”

Cersei gave a throaty laugh. “Long lances, tall towers … is Lord Tyrell hinting at something?”

Is this supposed to be about a certain part of the male anatomy? :idea:

[Consigliere]

Is this supposed to be about a certain part of the male anatomy? :idea:

Over compensating. [emoji6]