Jump to content

Victarion Re-read Project


Mithras

Recommended Posts

Jon = Eron, oh ok. Not Bloodraven, no there is no parallel there but Jon. So Jon intends to lie cheat and steal his way to the throne? You understand that Euron is going to get crushed?

Asha is the best of all of them. I do love the fact that it now appears that not only is Vic a dolt( Martins own words) but also is insecure with a small penis. It would also appear Vic is not even a Greyjoy. Ficterion Grey something or another.

I agree there are some similarities, and parallels which I have written about but is it wise to be overly direct with the parallels. Honestly Euron reminds me more of the Night's King than J...? Lets see who Euron is in bed with. Perhaps the Warlocks hmmmmmmm? They had a a cold dead rotting heart (heart of winter) wished to snuff out the fire. Blue is an overwhelming color for them, just like Jon and Euron has his blue lips. Oh my what is Jon up too? Also Jon gave sam a horn and sent him off and Euron gave Vic a horn and sent him off with a woman as well. Yes so Vic is really Sam, and Euron is Jon and the Others will be Jon's warlocks.

Oh Bloodraven and Euron makes a lot of sense, especially if Bloodraven reached to Euron years ago. Maybe Euron will find himself in the far North before long. Good points Ser Creighton!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Oh Bloodraven and Euron makes a lot of sense, especially if Bloodraven reached to Euron years ago. Maybe Euron will find himself in the far North before long. Good points Ser Creighton!

Well really the point was parallels are tricky things, sometimes it looks like one when it is another and sometimes they are combined, sometimes inverted. I would say Jon does not have a parallel there because that would be the secret Greyjoy because that is his story. It also leaves out Jon' duty to wall which no parallel exists for at the moot. Though Theon is the missing son. Not to say anything is getting removed from Jon but Theon has that same sort of emptiness that Jon mentions and Jon at Winterfell also said he doesn't belong and of course Ned took both of them and did treat them both well, though not really the same as lets say Robb. Both are associated with Stannis now, Jon seeks his sister, Theon was not looking for Asha but he found her which gives you the well known inverse parallel Martin uses. Theon has been a prisoner, Jon is also a sort of prisoner, though to his vows, dude has had a real hard time leaving the watch just as Theon had a hard time leaving Ramsey. There is some stuff there but it is indirect, and lets not forget Theon is a Greyjoy. Also the seen with his mother and Asha where she is delirious in a way. Both Theon and Jon are brought back at the end of a rebellion, though for different reasons. That's usually the kind of stuff I look into.

But Jon as Euron? I will not except that, Euron is a lying scumbag and so far removed from Jon it is not even funny. But the two one eyed Crows, one blue and one red the inverse symbolism, that I can draw on, that I can see working.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Good job on the kingsmoot, Paper Weaver.

To add to that, the Reader supports Asha just as Tyrion likely will Dany. Rodrik's eldest sibling, his sister Gwynesse, is a mad widow who insists that Ten Towers is her's just as Tyrion's eldest sibling is an increasingly mad widow who always thinks she was the one who deserved CR by being the eldest.

Jon = Eron, oh ok. Not Bloodraven, no there is no parallel there but Jon. So Jon intends to lie cheat and steal his way to the throne? You understand that Euron is going to get crushed?

BR never wore a crown or had a claim to or pressed one for the IT. The parallel refers to that singular scene, and I don't see the Reader dying anytime soon even though I see Tyrion doing so. Euron did not cheat at the kingsmoot as he followed the rules.

But Jon as Euron? I will not except that, Euron is a lying scumbag and so far removed from Jon it is not even funny. But the two one eyed Crows, one blue and one red the inverse symbolism, that I can draw on, that I can see working.

Aegon is not Victarion either nor is Asha Dany. Parallels don't have to be perfect.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Aeron had drowned and been reborn from the sea, the god’s own prophet. No mortal man could frighten him, no more than the darkness could . . . nor memories, the bones of the soul. The sound of a door opening, the scream of a rusted iron hinge. Euron has come again.



No mortal man could frighten him, no more than the darkness could, nor the bones of his soul, the grey and grisly bones of his soul. The sound of a door opening, the scream of a rusted iron hinge.



Aeron calls his memories as the bones of the soul. The scream of the rusted iron hinge is the symbol of his traumatic molestation by Euron. Aeron thinks that the sea took his flesh away and his bones remained. This way, the Drowned God made him strong from the weak thing he was.



The cold salt sea surrounded him, embraced him, reached down through his weak man’s flesh and touched his bones. Bones, he thought. The bones of the soul. Balon’s bones, and Urri’s. The truth is in our bones, for flesh decays and bone endures. And on the hill of Nagga, the bones of the Grey King’s Hall . . .



While he was in the sea, seeking strength from the sea once again because Euron has come once again, he thought about his memories, the bones of the soul. He immediately recalled Nagga’s bones and decided to summon a kingsmoot to prevent Euron’s ascension.



Myths, myths and myths . . . Only Nagga’s bones endured to remind the ironborn of all the wonder that had been.



Aeron recalls the myths about the Grey King and Nagga in full detail. He later thinks that only Nagga’s bones endured to serve as the proof of these myths.



First of all, it is clear that Aeron’s agenda is personal and he is against Euron by all means. He likes to think himself as the prophet of the Drowned God, that the kingsmoot was god’s will and Euron is a godless man who is an agent of the evil Storm God. That is all wrong. He is deceiving himself because the truth is unbearable to him.



In fact, one of the key sentences in AFfC which applies to the entire book is voiced by Aemon like this:



. . . we all deceive ourselves, when we want to believe.



With such a widespread self-deception is going on, I think the myths surrounding the Grey King and Nagga are all fabricated. As I told before, Nagga’s ribs, the only thing that points to the Ironborn myths, are the petrified remnants of an ancient weirwood grove. This is another evidence why the ironborn are so detached from reality.


Link to comment
Share on other sites

AFfC – The Reaver (Victarion II)



Plot Summary



Euron makes a good plan to take the Shields. An easy victory is won. Euron reveals his next plan as to take the ironborn to Slaver’s Bay and sell the captives to slavery for provisions on their way. With the intervention of Lord Rodrik, he is forced to change his plans. So, he sends Victarion in his stead with the Iron Fleet to Slaver’s Bay.



Observations



1. Both Victarion and Barristan are more comfortable when fighting instead of thinking. After the Battle of Meereen is won, a duel between them is inevitable. This reason or that reason does not matter much.



The Iron Victory raked her side so hard that half the boarding party lost their feet. Oars snapped and splintered, sweet music to the captain’s ears.



The Drowned God had not shaped Victarion Greyjoy to fight with words at kingsmoots, nor struggle against furtive sneaking foes in endless bogs. This was why he had been put on earth; to stand steel-clad with an axe red and dripping in his hand, dealing death with every blow.



“Then come,” said Barristan the Bold.


Khrazz came.


For the first time all day, Selmy felt certain. This is what I was made for, he thought. The dance, the sweet steel song, a sword in my hand and a foe before me.



2. Victarion is an elite fighter but much of his invincibility in the battle was due to the fact that he wore heavy plate armor whereas most of his foes did not wear any armor for fear of drowning.



3. Victarion “your death” Greyjoy.



4. Victarion has an interesting retirement plan.



“I want a count of the ships we won and all the knights and lordlings we took captive. I want their banners too.” One day he would hang them in his hall, so when he grew old and feeble he could remember all the foes he had slain when he was young and strong.



5. Victarion gave Serry’s ship to Ragnor Pyke, a bastard. In the ironborn culture, social mobility is faster for those who can prove themselves. Regardless of low or high birth, a man gets what he earns when serving the Iron Captain. That is a good sign of Victarion’s leadership in regard to inspiring loyalty to his men. When Victarion punishes them, his men know that they have made a fault and when his men do a good job, they know that Victarion will reward them accordingly.



6. Victarion thinks that since he is the one who does the fighting in the Battle of the Shield Islands, the glory belongs to him, similar to his thoughts about burning the Lannister Fleet. But he starts to show signs of changing by admitting that the plan was good.



7. Euron can get into Victarion’s head easily.



There is no wine so sweet as wine taken from a foe. Someone had told him that once. His father, or his brother Balon. One day I shall drink your wine, Crow’s Eye, and take from you all that you hold dear. But was there anything Euron held dear?



“What do you want?”


“The world.” Firelight glimmered in Euron’s eye. His smiling eye. “Will you take a cup of Lord Hewett’s wine? There’s no wine half so sweet as wine taken from a beaten foe.”



8. Size matters. Victarion was clearly disturbed by Euron’s nakedness but he avoided looking at Euron’s manhood or reflecting on its size.



Euron stood by the window, drinking from a silver cup. He wore the sable cloak he took from Blacktyde, his red leather eye patch, and nothing else.



There was something obscene and disturbing about his nakedness.



Victarion had no patience for this.



“No.” Victarion glanced away. “Cover yourself.”


Euron seated himself and gave his cloak a twitch, so it covered his private parts.



Analysis



This is the concluding chapter of the ironborn plot in AFfC. This chapter is heavy with lots of things to consider and one of my all-time favorite chapters in the entire saga. Along with Cat of the Canals, I think these two are the gems of AFfC.



Euron’s Original Strategy



Euron’s main objective is to capture Dany’s dragons and conquer Westeros as Aegon the Conqueror did. For that, he originally planned to



1. take the Shields for spoils/slaves and the taste of victory for the ironborn;


2. give these poisoned gifts to 4 new-made lords to have them killed and nullify threats to his hold on the Seastone Chair;


3. start the journey for SB;


4. not engage with a strong force such as the Redwyne Fleet on the way to SB;


5. divide the ships according to their speeds just like Victarion will do;


6. also divide the ships according to their primary allegiance;


7. send the unwanted/expendable people through more dangerous paths to let them die by the Redwyne Fleet or pirates or storms;


8. fill the swift ships with loyal creatures and reach Dany first;


9. take the dragons and start the conquest;



According to this strategy, I think Euron originally thought of giving one of the Shields to Victarion to have him killed.



Victarion’s hunger flared. “Let him come. I will take his sword for mine own, as your own forebear took Red Rain. Let them all come, and bring the Lannisters as well. A lion may be fierce enough on land, but at sea the kraken rules supreme.”



“A great victory, Lord Captain,” said the Limper. “A victory worthy of a lordship. You should have an island.”


Lord Victarion. Aye, and why not? It might not be the Seastone Chair, but it would be something.



Once a man had turned his tail and run from battle he ceased to be a man.



The quotes above show that Victarion was willing to accept such a lordship and he was foolish/brave enough to try holding his new island against the full might of the Reach. In the end, he was going to be killed by the time Euron returns to Westeros with dragons.



“He still needs me to fight his battles, though,” Victarion insisted. “Wizards may be well and good, but blood and steel win wars.”



Victarion was wrong. He is always a strong contender to Euron’s crown and moreover, his nature makes it likely for him to be used as a pawn of some dangerous player. With Dany’s dragons, Euron does not think he will need Victarion in the battles to come. And while going to SB, he was not planning to participate in large scale battles.



Euron does not care about the eventual losses in the deadly voyage to the other side of the world. Although he pretended like he never thought of that possibility before, I think we have seen enough of Euron to believe that he damn sure knew that most of the ironborn would not make it to SB and even less would be able to make it back to Westeros. So, he never voiced the hazards of the voyage and was possibly planning to spend the unwanted/unworthy lot by sending them to traps or dangerous routes.



Euron also did not care a bit for the ironborn left back in the Iron Islands. While he is chasing dragons in the Far East, the Redwyne Fleet was going to retake the Shields and invade the Iron Islands and the ironborn would suffer their greatest defeat. We get this notion from the fact that Euron just laughed to the disappearance of Aeron and his plans to oppose him.



Euron’s Modified Strategy



The Reader understood most of Euron’s machinations and tried to sway the ironborn against him. The unique property of the ironborn culture, which raised Euron in the kingsmoot, was now used by the Reader to force Euron to change his plans. The ironborn were drunk with the victory, just like the ironborn Theon killed while taking Winterfell. Pointing the hazards of the voyage was a very clever move of the Reader.



Now, although he did not want it initially, Euron has to stay in Westeros and continue raiding the Reach in order to keep the ironborn satisfied/occupied. I wonder if he had a chance to know that he was going to stay in Westeros, would he have those ravens carrying the news of the ironborn attack killed.



Victarion is the only person Euron can trust in sailing the Iron Fleet (the most elite ships with their crews the ironborn have) to SB. At the same time, Euron knows Victarion too damn well to expect a betrayal from him.



What Euron Expects from Victarion



“It is a dragon horn, bound with bands of red gold and Valyrian steel graven with enchantments. The dragonlords of old sounded such horns, before the Doom devoured them. With this horn, ironmen, I can bind dragons to my will.”



“Cragorn’s died, you know.”


“Who?”


“The man who blew my dragon horn. When the maester cut him open, his lungs were charred as black as soot.”


Victarion shuddered.



“And the man who blew the horn, what of him?”


“He died. There were blisters on his lips, after. His bird was bleeding too.” The captain thumped his chest. “The hawk, just here. Every feather dripping blood. I heard the man was all burned up inside, but that might just have been some tale.”


“A true tale.” Moqorro turned the hellhorn, examining the queer letters that crawled across a second of the golden bands. “Here it says, ‘No mortal man shall sound me and live.’ ”


Bitterly Victarion brooded on the treachery of brothers. Euron’s gifts are always poisoned. “The Crow’s Eye swore this horn would bind dragons to my will. But how will that serve me if the price is death?”



Victarion was planning to blow the horn himself upon seeing Dany’s dragons because he felt the power of the horn in the kingsmoot where Euron boasted that he could bind the dragons to his will by this horn. Euron told him of Cragorn’s death but as we see, Victarion didn’t believe in that because he never saw the corpse. Doubtless, Victarion thought that Euron was trying to intimidate him with a painful death in order to prevent him blowing the horn and claiming the dragons. And doubtless, that was exactly what Euron wanted Victarion to think. We see that Euron can really get into the head of Victarion and mess with him.



So, Euron expected Victarion to go to SB and sound the horn himself, by which Victarion would die and the dragons would be bound to Euron’s will. I think he would be able to call the dragons to Westeros in that case because Moqorro will say so. Perhaps Euron did not care Dany much and his only concern was her dragons, just like every other greedy person Dany came across.



Euron’s Gifts Are Poisoned



“These rocks, you mean? All four together wouldn’t make Harlaw. We have won some stones and trees and trinkets, and the enmity of House Tyrell.”


“The roses?” Nute laughed. “What rose can harm the krakens of the deep? We have taken their shields from them, and smashed them all to pieces. Who will protect them now?”


“Highgarden,” replied the Reader. “Soon enough all the power of the Reach will be marshaled against us, Barber, and then you may learn that some roses have steel thorns.”



“Have no fear, Lord Captain,” said the Reader. “They will come. His Grace desires it. Why else would he have commanded us to let Hewett’s ravens fly?”



Victarion had expected the Crow’s Eye to give the lordships to his own creatures, Stonehand and the Red Oarsman and Left-Hand Lucas Codd. A king must needs be open-handed, he tried to tell himself, but another voice whispered, Euron’s gifts are poisoned. When he turned it over in his head, he saw it plain. The Knight was the Reader’s chosen heir, and Andrik the Unsmiling the strong right arm of Dunstan Drumm. Volmark is a callow boy, but he has Black Harren’s blood in him through his mother. And the Barber . . .



Euron let the ravens fly to carry the word of the fall of the Shields. The ironborn cannot hope to hold these islands against the full might of Highgarden as the Reader noted. Euron rewarded these islands to the 4 lords he raised.



Although Victarion is famously labeled as dumb, here he noticed Euron’s ploy of weakening his opposition immediately. Euron was quite sure that the Shields would be retaken by the Reach and these new-made lords would be killed. By a single stroke, Euron robbed the Reader from his chosen heir, robbed Dunstan Drumm from a strong champion, removed a Volmark out of the way and robbed Victarion from one of his strongest champions.



It is very clear that Euron was subtly weakening all the opposition to him to solidify his hold to the Seastone Chair. Harlaw now would pass to Hotho Harlaw who probably became a creature of Euron. Dunstan Drumm was a strong claimant in the kingsmoot. Volmarks carry the blood of Harren the Black and as Tarle-the-Thrice-Drowned said; some people might prefer them as the king of the Iron Islands. We will also see that Euron wed Asha to Erik Ironmaker. Erik hated Asha for making fun of him at the kingsmoot. This way, Euron gave Erik an opportunity to get his revenge and removed Asha out of the way as well, if only Asha had not slipped away. It was also possible that Asha could have been the one to kill Erik, which would curse her forever.



The Dusky Woman



The Dusky Woman was given to Victarion for his loyal service in capturing Lord Blacktyde, who had defied Euron’s kingship after the kingsmoot.



Is Dusky Woman one of Euron’s poisoned gifts?



It can be argued that since Euron is making his moves to eliminate all the opposition to him as we see how he weakens the claimants in the kingsmoot against him, he should not make an exception for Victarion. The Dusky Woman might be a perfectly placed dagger (courtesy of LF). Thus, it is generally accepted that the Dusky Woman has been poisoning Victarion.



But I am going to differ from the generally accepted case. I already posted in the Euron’s Original Strategy that Euron hoped to kill Victarion by giving him one of the Shields because he had no use for him back then. When he changed his strategy and needed Victarion to go to Slaver’s Bay and blow the horn, he tricked him into blowing the horn himself and have him killed just the same.



Therefore, it does not make sense if he ordered the Dusky Woman to kill him prematurely. And as we noted before, the Dusky Woman was given to him even before taking the Shields.



We will talk about it in the future chapter but the festering of Victarion’s hand might be natural. His wounded hand has been over the private parts of the Dusky Woman, which creates a high risk of infection.



He took her twice, in quick succession. When they were done there was blood smeared across her breasts and thighs and belly, but it was his blood, from the gash in his palm. The dusky woman washed it out for him with boiled vinegar.



Or the maester might be poisoning him.



But that does not mean there is nothing suspicious about the Dusky Woman.



As a reward for his leal service, the new-crowned king had given Victarion the dusky woman, taken off some slaver bound for Lys. “I want none of your leavings,” he had told his brother scornfully, but when the Crow’s Eye said that the woman would be killed unless he took her, he had weakened. Her tongue had been torn out, but elsewise she was undamaged, and beautiful besides, with skin as brown as oiled teak. Yet sometimes when he looked at her, he found himself remembering the first woman his brother had given him, to make a man of him.



Victarion felt a tap upon his shoulder. One of Euron’s mongrel sons stood behind him, a boy of ten with woolly hair and skin the color of mud. “My father wishes words with you.”



Both the Dusky Woman and the bastard son of Euron share the same skin color. I think it is possible that the Dusky Woman might be the mother of that boy. That means Euron was lying about her since the boy is 10 years old. Pirates are said to have a lover at every port and the Dusky Woman might be an old lover of Euron from Stepstones or the Free Cities. Taena of Myr told a tale about this sailor who seduced her. That shows that such things are possible.



Perhaps Euron threatened the Dusky Woman with the life of her son to spy on Victarion for him or kill him when necessary. Of course the question remains that how she is reporting to Euron.



It is also interesting that Victarion had a soft heart when he heard that the woman was to be killed if he had not accepted her. We also see that he referred to the salt wife he killed as his lover in this chapter.



Victarion the Brooder



“It is a great victory.”


Aye, he thought, a great victory for the Crow’s Eye and his wizards. The other captains would shout his brother’s name anew when the tidings reached Oakenshield. Euron had seduced them with his glib tongue and smiling eye and bound them to his cause with the plunder of half a hundred distant lands; . . . and yet all that was little and less, compared to this. Now he has given them conquest, and they are his for good and all, the captain thought. The taste was bitter on his tongue. This was my victory, not his. Where was he? Back on Oakenshield, lazing in a castle. He stole my wife and he stole my throne, and now he steals my glory.



And now he steals my men away, Victarion thought.



Obedience came naturally to Victarion Greyjoy; he had been born to it. Growing to manhood in the shadow of his brothers, he had followed Balon dutifully in everything he did. Later, when Balon’s sons were born, he had grown to accept that one day he would kneel to them as well, when one of them took his father’s place upon the Seastone Chair. But the Drowned God had summoned Balon and his sons down to his watery halls, and Victarion could not call Euron “king” without tasting bile in his throat.



He drank in the darkness, brooding on his brother.



This is Euron’s shadow over Victarion, which still plagues him and drives him into brooding about Euron and coming up with unreasonable ideas.



Euron did not steal Victarion’s throne. He won the kingsmoot at a fair contest. Euron did not steal Victarion’s glory because the whole thing was Euron’s plan and it only worked because of the magic of Euron’s wizards. The burning of the Lannister Fleet was a similar case as we discussed before.



With a similar reasoning, I think Euron did not steal Victarion’s wife; she came to him willingly.



He is right about Nute the Barber though. Euron stole his champion from him and Nute’s lordship in Oakenshield will be a short one. Still, it was interesting that Victarion shared a cup with Nute to show him that he did not begrudge him for accepting Euron’s offer.



The Plan



There is an image showing Euron’s strategy graphically in the wiki page. He sent some raiders up the Mander and the men of the Shields took the bait. Euron took the undefended Shields while their ships were on a futile chase after the decoy ships. When they gave up the chase and return to the mouth of the Mander, the Iron Fleet trapped them and smashed them. That was the fight at the opening scene of the chapter.



This was a clever strategy but it depends on two elements: the lack of foresightedness of the defenders and the ability to sail off the coastline to hide from the watching eyes, which was possible by the magic winds. Things cannot always go as smoothly as this.



Victarion is Changing



I think Victarion shows some signs of changing slightly. For example, for the first time, he thought that Euron’s plan to take the Shields was good. These signs will be more evident when he will be separated from Euron’s or Aeron’s shadow. In the next chapters, we can talk about this more.



What Aeron is up to?



We should also talk about what Aeron is thinking by rallying the smallfolk against Euron. I think he has the ability to impress the common folk because he is not a bad spokesman. But Euron simply did not care for him while he was planning to go to the SB himself. Now that Euron has to stay in Westeros, perhaps Aeron might cause trouble for his rule and Euron might think of doing something for him.


Link to comment
Share on other sites

AFfC – The Reaver (Victarion II)

This was a very well done summary!

1. Both Victarion and Barristan are more comfortable when fighting instead of thinking. After the Battle of Meereen is won, a duel between them is inevitable. This reason or that reason does not matter much.

It does seem likely now that you've pointed out the similar sentences. If Selmy gets wind that Vic's plans are to take a dragon or to carry Dany off and marry her, he'll stop Vic.

3. Victarion “your death” Greyjoy.

Sometimes Vic has incredibly stupid lines, but this one is almost fist pump worthy.

8. Size matters. Victarion was clearly disturbed by Euron’s nakedness but he avoided looking at Euron’s manhood or reflecting on its size.

Euron stood by the window, drinking from a silver cup. He wore the sable cloak he took from Blacktyde, his red leather eye patch, and nothing else.

There was something obscene and disturbing about his nakedness.

Victarion had no patience for this.

“No.” Victarion glanced away. “Cover yourself.”

Euron seated himself and gave his cloak a twitch, so it covered his private parts

I find it interesting that Euron did not choose this moment to bring up Vic's own penis or the wife Euron took. Vic is clearly uncomfortable and not in a good mood (he tells Euron to jump from a window); but Euron lets all this pass to reflect on the plans he has for Dany and Westeros. If Euron can so easily get into Vic's head this was a missed opportunity though in the grand scheme of things, it suggests that Euron is playing nice for the moment because he needs Vic to do his bidding.

So, Euron expected Victarion to go to SB and sound the horn himself, by which Victarion would die and the dragons would be bound to Euron’s will. I think he would be able to call the dragons to Westeros in that case because Moqorro will say so. Perhaps Euron did not care Dany much and his only concern was her dragons, just like every other greedy person Dany came across

Yeah, I don't think Euron gives one iota about Dany. He tells Vic a story of his time in Myr in which he paid a wizard a lot of money to hatch a dragon egg. His goal is the dragon, not Dany herself. She is needed because she is the mother of dragons; but I wonder if Euron is so confident in his own charm and sexual prowess that he expects that he can win Dany over. In the scene preceding Euron and Vic's private meeting, Euron has taken to the bastard daughter of Lord Hewett and they are clearly enjoying themselves. What Euron wants, Euron gets: woman, the crown, the seastone chair, victory, dragons Vic's own humiliation, the humiliation of those around him.

Perhaps Euron threatened the Dusky Woman with the life of her son to spy Victarion for him or kill him when necessary.

That makes sense. I definitely think she's spying on Victarion for Euron and maybe has orders to kill Vic if he shows signs of going against Euron's plan. However, I think Euron has underestimated the Dusky Woman; I think she comes to care for Vic, at least a little. Without even being told or asked, the Dusky Woman takes care of Vic's hand. Vic, in turn, I think comes to care for her as well, again in whatever small way. I think we see more of this in Dance, so we can come back to it later.

With a similar reasoning, I think Euron did not steal Victarion’s wife; she came to him willingly.

Agreed. And I think we get a small hint to that in this chapter. Vic can perform, but not as often as Euron probably could: he is unable to get an erection for a third round with the Dusky Woman. He is occasionally "unmanned" whereas Euron just seems to reek of sexual ability.

What Aeron is up to?

We should also talk about what Aeron is thinking by rallying the smallfolk against Euron. I think he has the ability to impress the common folk because he is not a bad speaksman. But Euron simply did not care for him while he was planning to go to the SB himself. Now that Euron has to stay in Westeros, perhaps Aeron might cause trouble for his rule.

I'm not sure how successful Aeron is going to be; even if he does manage to rally the common folk, Euron isn't going to care. He has bigger fish to fry: he wants "the world" not just the Iron Islands. Aeron is probably making the case to the small folk that Euron is using spells and tricks to rule them.

Other things

1) Vic's refusal to commit any sort of kinslaying is commendable

2) Euron commands all the women to disrobe to serve. I kinda hate this guy.

3) Euron threw the dragon egg into the sea during a dark mood. More hints to his sociopathy. (wonder if it was a real dragon egg or not...)

4) Euron dreamed he could fly as a boy. I think he's been influenced by forces beyond the Wall, sort of like Bran.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

AFfC – The Reaver (Victarion II)

Plot Summary

Very good analysis, Paper Waver. :)

I really like this chapter aswell. I can't exactly set my finger on what it is, but I think it has somewhat of a "heavy", gloomy feeling. There is so much death at the beginning of the chapter; the battle is a slaughter, Ser Talbert's fate makes me sad in a way, the dying are "executed" in a horrible way. The smallfolk to be sold as slaves, the horrible treatment of the women at Oakenshield and Lord Hewett, the casual rape on one of the daughters by Left-Hand Lucas Codd... The "theft" of Nute, Victarion's thoughts during that off-putting meeting with Euron.

Victarion's relationship to the dusky woman also makes me sad. For her, mainly, assuimg she is an actual woman and not Euron in a glamour. ;) I have to admit, the first time I read AFfC and ADWD I used to think that it was good for him that he'd met someone to give a bit of light to his somber life. I recall quotes such as "they were getting closer for each day" and how he used to talk to her... now, after rereading not only do I feel like a fool, but I really believe there is something sinister going on there, which is a bit depressing. The man's digging his own grave the way he's treating women, but I can't help but feel bad. :(

The Reader makes up for some of this sadness. He's amazing. Hope is not entirely lost for the Ironborn.

The dusky woman

As I admitted above, I used to think she was just a regular woman. Now, I think that she's poisoning his wound. I'm not sure if she's the mother of the bastard boy, but it would make sense if she was and she's being blackmailed into sabotaging for Victarion. I've always thought she was from Naath.

“The Good Master Kraznys asks, are they not magnificent?” The girl [Missendei] spoke the Common Tongue well, for one who had never been to Westeros. No older than ten, she had the round flat face, dusky skin, and golden eyes of Naath. The Peaceful People, her folk were called. All agreed that they made the best slaves.

Honor

I think that often when people classify Victarion as a monster and an evil man they don't see the whole picture. And I think that his want to uphold his honor and being lawful are some of his redeeming factors. He recognizes the evil in Euron's treatment of the Hewett family and disapproves of it, because it is not honorable. I found Falia Flowers (the bastard girl) quite repelling. These are her relatives, and she suggests that they are stripped naked and humiliated. They likely did not treat her so well as she is a bastard, but it's still an awful thing to want to inflict upon them.

Conversation with a naked man

Euron must be aware of Victarion's resentment of him. I mean, he must. It reeks of it by their conversation.

As much as I dislike Euron, he's amusing.

“You have sons,” he [Vic] told his brother.

“Baseborn mongrels, born of whores and weepers.”

“They are of your body.”

“So are the contents of my chamber pot."

I honestly really, really hope that Euron is just Euron and is not controlled, warged, a glamoured warlock, a Faceless man. I just want him to be Euron.

I read a thread once that discussed the Catelyn/Jaime conversation in ACoK (I believe?). Someone mentioned that taking a sip before answering a question meant that they'd speak truthfully. I'm searching desperately for this thread, but it was ages ago I read it and I haven't found it yet.

That made me think of this conversation.

Euron seated himself and gave his cloak a twitch, so it covered his private parts. “I had forgotten what a small and noisy folk they are, my ironborn. I would bring them dragons, and they shout out for grapes.”

“Grapes are real. A man can gorge himself on grapes. Their juice is sweet, and they make wine. What do dragons make?”

“Woe.” The Crow’s Eye sipped from his silver cup. “I once held a dragon’s egg in this hand, brother. This Myrish wizard swore he could hatch it if I gave him a year and all the gold that he required. When I grew bored with his excuses, I slew him. As he watched his entrails sliding through his fingers he said, ‘But it has not been a year.’” He laughed. “Cragorn’s died, you know.”

“Who?”

“The man who blew my dragon horn. When the maester cut him open, his lungs were charred as black as soot.”

Victarion shuddered. “Show me this dragon’s egg.”

“I threw it in the sea during one of my dark moods.” Euron gave a shrug...

...The Crow’s Eye filled two cups with a strange black wine that flowed as thick as honey. “Drink with me, brother. Have a taste of this.” He offered one of the cups to Victarion.

The captain took the cup Euron had not offered, sniffed at its contents suspiciously. Seen up close, it looked more blue than black. It was thick and oily, with a smell like rotted flesh. He tried a small swallow, and spit it out at once. “Foul stuff. Do you mean to poison me?”

“I mean to open your eyes.” Euron drank deep from his own cup, and smiled.

Assuming that works in this example aswell, Euron would be telling some truth. Victarion, on the other hand, tries a sip and spits it out. He ends up deciding to betray Euron and take his revenge.

Both Paper Waver and BearQueen87 had points I agree with so I'll just leave it at this. :)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Another good job Paper Weaver

I agree, giving the Shield Islands, Euron gave his rivals all the risk for when they fall, and he likely intends to screw them over.

Aeron

"So he is,"Victarion had said. "I like it no more than you, but Euron's the king. Your kingsmoot raised him up, and you put the driftwood crown upon his head yourself!"

"It makes no matter Euron is our king."

"Not mine," the priest declared.

Aeron is a classic definition of a sore loser, excluding the years of abuse Euron gave him. He has now become more desperate, appealing to the smallfolk of the Iron Isles, the farmers and fisherman, to rise up against their lords and warriors.

Victarion

Once a man had turned his tail and run from battle he ceased to be a man

Like you did at Fair Isle, Victarion?

May he feast in the Drowned God's watery halls.

Victarion manages to show some romantic aspect in showing respect for his fallen foe's abilities and courage to the point of thinking he is almost Ironborn.

Falia Flowers = Cinderella

Falia's story does sound similar to CInderella. A beautiful girl with a noble father whose wife made her a servant, and later gains the eye of a royal. Falia could have seen them being forced to serve naked as likely revenge for years of humiliation. I wonder if she was still into Euron after he killed her father?

The Reader: Euron's Biggest Rival

"You read too much and fight too little," Nute said. "Your blood is milk."

"Have you?" the Reader asked, so softly.
Euron's blue smile vanished. "Reader," he said into the quiet, "you would do well to keep your nose in your books."

The Reader disproves Nute's comment in the next scene. It takes stones to basically call Euron a liar to his face in front of everyone, and challenge his plan. Undaunted by the fact that Euron is a complete psychopath who cut up Baelor Blacktyde into seven pieces for refusing to acknowledge him as king.

In the yard Victarion came on Gorold Goodbrother and old Drumm, speaking quietly with Rodrik Harlaw. Nute the Baraber gave a hoot at the sight of them. "Reader," he called out, "why is your face so long? Your misgivings were for nought. The day is ours, and ours the prize!"

Lord Rodrik's mouth puckered. "These rocks you mean. All four together wouldn't make Harlaw. We have won some stones and trees and trinkets, and the enmity of House Tyrell."

"The roses?" Nute laughed. "What rose can harm the krakens of the deep? We have taken their shields from them, and smashed them all to pieces. Who will protect them now?"
"Highgarden," replied the Reader. "Soon enough all the power of the Reach will be marshaled against us, Barber, and then you may learn that some roses have steel thorns."

The Reader responds to Nute's arrogant boast with the cold, hard truth. He knows that the consequences of taking the Shield Islands outweigh the gains. Even Lords Drumm and Goodbrother seem to be agreeing with him in that scene. The Reader shows he is a good politician in apparently making allies with Lord Drumm of Old Wyk and Lord Goodbrother of Great Wyk.

"Are we slavers now?" asked the Reader. "And for what? Dragons that no man here has seen? Shall we chase some drunken sailor's fancy to the far ends of the earth?"
His words drew mutters of assent. "Slaver's Bay is too far," called out Ralf the Limper. "And too close to Valyria," shouted Quellon Humble. Fralegg the Strong said, "Highgarden's close. I say, look for dragons there. The golden kind!" Alvyn Sharp said, "Why sail the world, when the Mander lies before us?" Red Ralf Stonehouse bounded to his feet. "Oldtown is richer, and the Arbor richer still. Redwyne's fleet is off away. We need only reach out our hand to pluck the ripest fruit in Westeros."
"Fruit?" The king's eye looked more black than blue. "Only a craven would steal a fruit when he could take the orchard."
"It is the Arbor we want," said Red Ralf, and other men took up the cry. The Crow's Eye let the shouts wash over him. Then he leapt down from the table, grabbed his slattern by the arm, and pulled her from the hall.
The Reader's political skills are on display when he manages to get the rest of the Ironborn behind him in challenging Euron's plan, and manages to get Euron to flee the hall. Even Euron is swayed, saying the Reader is not wrong, and changes his plans.
A Hint to Euron as Balon's Killer
I [Euron] am the storm, my lord.
The king must be Victarion, or the storm will slay us all.
A sudden storm and a broken rope had swept Balon to his death.
It is said that storm killed Balon, and Euron saying he is the storm could be hinting that he was behind Balon's death.
Possible Foreshadowing
He would have given half his teeth for the chance to try his axe against the Kingslayer or the Knight of Flowers.
I think Victarion will fight Barristan, who like Jaime and Loras, is a member of the KG. I wonder that Victarion may lose some teeth in the fight. :laugh:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The Reader's political skills are on display when he manages to get the rest of the Ironborn behind him in challenging Euron's plan, and manages to get Euron to flee the hall. Even Euron is swayed, saying the Reader is not wrong, and changes his plans.

Yeah, that is a pretty important aspect. It shows that Euron has no 100% control over the Ironborn. And that the ironborn are not immediate sheepish followers to their king.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1. This is the chapter proving Victarion has standards. And that he's not the dumb brute people think he is.



2. I don't think Euron stole Vic's wife, neither she went "willingly". I think it's a bit of both, he seduced her and she agreed, bedazzled for the moment, or had no other chance. I do believe Victarion was a good husband, or at least, not a terrible husband for an IB.



3. Here is one of my favourite Vic's moments... "then jump... bitch".



4. Nice catch about the Dusky Woman being the boy's mother. It definitely could be. I don't think she's more than what she seems to be. It's rather Euron simply playing with Victarion's head and making him doubt and be paranoid and mistrust everybody.



5. The Reader is too smart and dangerous for Euron. He might be doomed =( The IB aren't the idiots people think they are either. They know and realise that, while Euron's plan is good on paper, sailing for dragons no one has seen is stupid. Why risk their fleet to try to get dragons from the end of the world when they can actually have money and lands at the moment? I think it's a very reasonable conclusion.



6. About Euron leaving the banquet, that happened to my Mayor few years ago. He was faced with the harsh true during some assemble and he had to flee. It was actually pretty funny to watch, heh.



7. I don't think Victarion was uncomfortable with Euron being naked because of "size" problems. I think it was because no one likes to watch other man's kraken after... krakening...(?). I know I wouldn't.


Link to comment
Share on other sites

Disclaimer: I had a small surgery on my sword arm and it will be useless for a couple of days. Posting with the shield hand is really tiresome and discouraging. I now understand what poor Victarion has been going through, although it was his shield hand (left) wounded.



With so much to discuss in this chapter, it is natural that certain things were left for the second round.



Taboo of Kinslaying



Victarion broods over and over and over how he could have killed Euron in hundreds of ways if not for the curse of kinslaying. It seems to me like a childish excuse. You all know how two boys fight and one beats the shit out of the other. But the beaten boy comes up with a funny-sounding excuse because it is harder to admit defeat.



Victarion is comforting himself by thinking how he or his champions can beat Euron and his mongrels to death. Brute force is the only way of superiority Victarion feels to have against Euron because he is strong and he knows that Euron defeated him in every other contest.



Thus, the taboo of kinslaying is not religious but psychological in Victarion’s case.



Breaking the Law



The way Euron treated Lord Hewett and his family is really disgusting and shows his psychopathy. We remember how Gregor cut the 8-year-old Lyman Darry into two pieces although he was the last of his line and that was worthy of a heavy ransom.



Normally, the defeated knights and lords are taken captive, treated better than the rest of prisoners and released after collecting their ransoms. The victorious side obeys this unwritten code because they might be the loser next time and need these very codes to survive. Victarion thought that Serry might bring him a good ransom, from Willas if not from his father.



This treatment of noble war prisoners is similar to the guest right. The entire society benefits from this unwritten law and the entire society suffers when it is broken.



The acts of the psychopaths like Gregor and Euron are damaging this law and the ironborn will not find much mercy when they will be defeated eventually.



Euron’s Exile



I think Euron really had a dragon egg and one of the plausible theories is that he used it to pay the price of the FM that killed Balon. He said he threw it into the sea. We know that the things thrown to the sea by the ironborn are offerings to the Drowned God. So, it makes sense to think that Euron sacrificed his most precious possession to pay the price for a strong magic or the death of a king.



OK but where did he find that egg?



We know that he captured Pyatt Pree outside Qarth and they were heading to Pentos which was Dany’s destination too at the time being. I think Euron already had that egg while coming to Qarth and meet Dany and her dragons. Perhaps he wanted to give it to Dany as a gift and promise to take her back to Westeros and win her father’s throne in return of her hand.



Having heard from the warlocks that Dany started West for Pentos, it is possible that Euron went to Pentos too but at one point he should have heard that Dany changed course to SB.



I think at this point, when he learned that Dany was sacking the slaver cities and collecting an army, Euron decided to take the Seastone Chair and go to Dany with the full might of the ironborn. To the sorrow of Quentyn, we know that one should come before the Queen not like a beggar but with a strong force. So, he paid the dragon egg price to the HoB&W to have Balon killed.



But still, we have not answered how Euron had an egg. I think Euron looted a ship of a guy who really went to Valyria and found stuff including that dragon egg. I think that guy is none other than Gerion Lannister aka the Corsair King.



Can Euron Fly?



Bran Vras made a case that Sweetrobin has been contacted by Bloodraven too because he has the gift through maternal line. Perhaps Bran is not the only person with the potential. We know that the gift is in the blood but it should have been awakened and practiced, otherwise, it might go unnoticed.



So, was Bloodraven searching for candidates to succeed him and was Euron one of them? I think it is possible but Bloodraven should have realized the psychopathy of Euron pretty soon and dismissed him.



Aeron



He is a nasty piece of work with nothing to sympathize. However, I can’t help but pity him when I remember what he had gone through because of Euron. I hope he finds peace in the watery halls of his god.



The Triumvirate



The Reader, Dunstan Drumm and Gorold Goodbrother were talking silently. We know that Gorold cares about the counsel of his master, the Reader was the greatest supporter of Asha and the mastermind behind her campaign, and Dunstan Drumm was a strong claimant in the kingsmoot who argued that the krakens ought not to be kings. Given that the Reader is robbed from his preferred heir and Dunstan will be robbed from his strongest champion, I think this cooperation will develop further. They will probably warn the Knight and Andrik of their poisoned gifts.



Thralldom



“Who are they?” he asked the men who helped tie up their boat.


“Widows and orphans. They’re to be sold as slaves.”


“Sold?” There were no slaves in the Iron Islands, only thralls. A thrall was bound to service, but he was not chattel. His children were born free, so long as they were given to the Drowned God. And thralls were never bought nor sold for gold. A man paid the iron price for thralls, or else had none. “They should be thralls, or salt wives,” Victarion complained.



Most of the people equate thralldom to slavery but there are significant differences.



Thralls are not property and they cannot be sold. They can only be taken by force (the iron price). Their children are born free if they are given to the Drowned God (through baptizing). We know that there are noble Houses like House Codd and House Humble who are descendants of thralls. Though they have a lower status with respect to other noble Houses, they are independent and formidable besides.



This practice is more similar to the woman-stealing of the wildlings than slavery in Essos.


Link to comment
Share on other sites

love this thread..




i wonder if there truly is a "progressive" faction , led by the reader and others, that will rule the islands in the end, that plans to kill the Old way forever..



If so, some of the ironborn traditions will also die, like thralls and salt wives. We know those houses (humble and Codd) are Euron´s allies right now, but they could win the respect they lack if indeed these progressives take power..


Link to comment
Share on other sites

Disclaimer: I had a small surgery on my sword arm and it will be useless for a couple of days. Posting with the shield hand is really tiresome and discouraging. I now understand what poor Victarion has been going through, although it was his shield hand (left) wounded.

Hope you recover soon!

Normally, the defeated knights and lords are taken captive, treated better than the rest of prisoners and released after collecting their ransoms. The victorious side obeys this unwritten code because they might be the loser next time and need these very codes to survive. Victarion thought that Serry might bring him a good ransom, from Willas if not from his father.

ie: how Asha insists her captives be treated at Deepwood Motte or how Theon treated Bran and Rickon at first.

I think Euron really had a dragon egg and one of the plausible theories is that he used it to pay the price of the FM that killed Balon. He said he threw it into the sea. We know that the things thrown to the sea by the ironborn are offerings to the Drowned God. So, it makes sense to think that Euron sacrificed his most precious possession to pay the price for a strong magic or the death of a king.

Never thought of it that way; very good point.

But still, we have not answered how Euron had an egg. I think Euron looted a ship of a guy who really went to Valyria and found stuff including that dragon egg. I think that guy is none other than Gerion Lannister aka the Corsair King.

I love this idea

So, was Bloodraven searching for candidates to succeed him and was Euron one of them? I think it is possible but Bloodraven should have realized the psychopathy of Euron pretty soon and dismissed him.

I think BR realized that Euron cannot be controlled. Euron claims to be the storm (which is overly dramatic but serves) and storms are wild and unpredictable. You cannot tell a storm to calm down and listen to wisdom.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just wanted to say to Paper Waver thank you for an awesome thread. I for one am tired of people stating as a matter of fact how boring the Ironborn plot is, or how it ruins AFFC/ADWD, when the reality is that that's just their subjective opinion. I find them just as compelling as the other plotlines, and as you're showing with your posts, they're not one-dimensional characters, the nuances are there to see. Apparently some people are too invested in Tyrion and the Starks to explore these "new characters", or they're just too damn lazy to.



To add to the discussion, i think an interesting aspect of Victarion's character is that as some people have pointed out before in other discussions, he displays behaviors similar to a mild form of autism. So that might be an explanation for his deep insecurities around Euron, rather than a small penis (which would be a little too literal an interpretion of the text, but it might be true). I also think he's the least douchy Greyjoy (even less than Asha, and no, that impression has nothing to do with Tristifer Botley, she's free to fuck or friendzone any man she wants), even though his upbringing makes him put little value in human life, so he feels free to let his men rape and pillage (we never actually see him do neither of those things) and offer human sacrifices to 2 gods, among other reprensible things.


Link to comment
Share on other sites

^^Thanks.



That is an interesting idea but I don't think Victarion has autism. He is becoming more Euron everyday and we will see that



he will manipulate the three thralls into blowing the dragonhorn allthough they all know that it is cursed and the last man who blew the horn died painfully. Another interesting detail from the TWoW Victarion chapter is that Victarion will say "only the Gods know", which is blasphemy according to the Drowned Religion. Theon used to say "Gods" too and he was half a Stark. The man who started this journey will not be the man who will meet Dany.


Link to comment
Share on other sites

Even without that, Victarion gives sacrifices to the Red God. That is such a diversion from the drowned God. And then Moqorro who tells him the Drowned God is just a servant of the Great Other. Aye, Damphair will not be pleased to see what is happening to Victarion.


Link to comment
Share on other sites

I decided to introduce Moqorro by a brief visit to the corresponding Tyrion chapters. I will not cover everything in that chapters but only the things related to Moqorro.



The reasons for this break are



· Moqorro will play a huge part in Victarion's storyline and it might be interesting to have a look at everything we know about him in this reread.



· I am completely baffled with the next Victarion chapter (the Iron Suitor). My notes are already too long and I cannot decide who the poisoner is. I think I will make three cases (no poisoning, the dusky woman is the poisoner and Kerwin is the poisoner) with pros and cons. That will take some time.


Link to comment
Share on other sites

ADwD – The Dark Flame



Summary



Jorah goes to Vogarro’s Whore to arrange passage to Meereen, which is troublesome for the time being. No ship in Volantis is going to Meereen as we know from Quentyn and JonCon chapters too. The only ships that are making preparations to go to Meereen (the Volantene Fleet) will be used to carry the troops to kill Dany and end her reign. Tyrion, Jorah and Penny depart Volantis on the Selaesori Qhoran aka the Stinky Steward along with Moqorro. The ship is actually destined to Qarth but Benerro and Moqorro seem “sure” that the ship will go to Meereen. They sail until a great storm savages the ship and they realize that Moqorro fell to the sea along with other losses. A slaver ship boards the storm-wrecked Stinky Steward and the survivors are captured. The slavers head to Meereen to sell these newly captured slaves in the slave market outside Meereen. Benerro’s “prophecy” is fulfilled, though not exactly the way Tyrion wished for.



Analysis



As I told it in the summary, it was impossible to find a ship that would go to Meereen at that time. And yet a ship was necessary for Benerro to send Moqorro before the tigers and others reach Meereen. As Moqorro told Tyrion, he and Benerro were aware of those who seek Dany for their own purposes and one most of all was of primary importance.



Ser Jorah frowned. “Qarth is not our destination.”


“She [selaesori Qhoran] will never reach Qarth. Benerro has seen it in his fires.”



Moqorro and Benerro seemed quite sure about their visions. I think those “timely coincidences” during the voyage to Meereen were no coincidences at all. Benerro did not see the morrow. He planned it.



The Stinky Steward had a good head start from both Victarion’s party and the even slower Ralf the Limper’s party. The Volantene Fleet started a couple of days after Victarion left Volantis and advanced slower than all because they probably sailed as a single large group.



Therefore, I propose that the strange storms that were creating havoc around Valyria were summoned by Benerro to hinder the movement of the Volantene Fleet. I assume that the Volantene Fleet lost a lot of ships to the storms. Moreover, the followers of the Red Religion interpreted it as a sign from the Red God, that their war against the world’s deliverer was wrong and the red god would destroy them all if they war against her. This is not a bad assumption because that is exactly what Moqorro told for the last storm, as we will see. I think this is one of the key elements that will make the slave soldiers in the Volantene Fleet turn their cloaks for Dany.



Although the Iron Fleet suffered from the storms, I don’t think they were the target. That was only collateral damage. I assume that such massive storms cannot be controlled with precision.



We should also note that by the time the Stinky Steward left Volantis, the siege of Meereen had already started and the bay of Meereen was blockaded. Going to Meereen was a problem and breaking the siege lines and reaching Dany was yet another problem.



Therefore, Moqorro was sent to intercept Victarion, “convert” him, and use the Iron Fleet to join the battle at the right time and break the siege lines. He was ahead of Victarion, so he stalled and broke the ship’s mast and jumped from the ship at the right time.



Magic Winds



It was as if some angry god was exacting payment for their easy voyage north, when they had ridden a steady southerly from Dragonstone to the Wall.



Melisandre had given Alester Florent to her god on Dragonstone, to conjure up the wind that bore them north. Lord Florent had been strong and silent as the queen’s men bound him to the post, as dignified as any half-naked man could hope to be, but as the flames licked up his legs he had begun to scream, and his screams had blown them all the way to Eastwatch-by-the-Sea, if the red woman could be believed. Davos had misliked that wind. It had seemed to him to smell of burning flesh, and the sound of it was anguished as it played amongst the lines.



The wind was at their backs, as it had been all the way down from Old Wyk. It was whispered about the fleet that Euron’s wizards had much and more to do with that, that the Crow’s Eye appeased the Storm God with blood sacrifice. How else would he have dared sail so far to the west, instead of following the shoreline as was the custom?



These are the two cases in which I am confident that the fair winds were summoned by blood sacrifice. There will be other examples in Victarion chapters but we can talk about them later on.



One should ask whether it is possible to summon foul winds or storms.



Viserys had told her that the last Targaryen dragons had died no more than a century and a half ago, during the reign of Aegon III, who was called the Dragonbane. That did not seem so long ago to Dany. “Everywhere?” she said, disappointed. “Even in the east?” Magic had died in the west when the Doom fell on Valyria and the Lands of the Long Summer, and neither spell-forged steel nor stormsingers nor dragons could hold it back, but Dany had always heard that the east was different. It was said that manticores prowled the islands of the Jade Sea, that basilisks infested the jungles of Yi Ti, that spellsingers, warlocks, and aeromancers practiced their arts openly in Asshai, while shadowbinders and bloodmages worked terrible sorceries in the black of night.



I think the answer should be “yes”.



Ingredients



“Two days from now, the cog Selaesori Qhoran will set sail for Qarth by way of New Ghis, carrying tin and iron, bales of wool and lace, fifty Myrish carpets, a corpse pickled in brine, twenty jars of dragon peppers, and a red priest. Be on her when she sails.”



That corpse is really intriguing. It gave birth to some crackpot theories such as Moqorro was actually Marwyn and that corpse was Aemon, which I don’t buy because of many issues such as the timeline etc. It is strange that we never heard about that corpse again.



A widow brought the dried corpse of her husband, covered with a crust of silvered leaves; such remnants were believed to have great power, especially if the deceased had been a sorcerer, as this one had.



Oh, this gets interesting. Dany was given a corpse in Qarth as a gift and it was said to have great power. With the global increase in magical activity, the corpse in the Stinky Steward should have some power. I think that corpse was used as a source of magical power to do something. Or, that corpse was used as a ward against magic and it was dropped at the right time to remove the protection against air magic.



The First Storm



The salt air lay still and heavy that morning, but the western sky was a fiery red, streaked with lowering clouds that glowed as bright as Lannister crimson. Sailors were dashing about battening hatches, running lines, clearing the decks, lashing down everything that was not already lashed down. “Bad wind coming,” one warned him. “No-Nose should get below.”



The winds drove the cog before them, far off her chosen course. Behind them black clouds piled one atop another against a blood-red sky. By midmorning they could see lightning flickering to the west, followed by the distant crash of thunder. The sea grew rougher, and dark waves rose up to smash against the hull of the Stinky Steward. It was about then that the crew started hauling down the canvas. Tyrion was underfoot amidships, so he climbed the forecastle and hunkered down, savoring the lash of cold rain on his cheeks. The cog went up and down, bucking more wildly than any horse he’d ever ridden, lifting with each wave before sliding down into the troughs between, jarring him to the bones. Even so, it was better here where he could see than down below locked in some airless cabin.


By the time the storm broke, evening was upon them and Tyrion Lannister was soaked through to the smallclothes, yet somehow he felt elated … and even more so later, when he found a drunken Jorah Mormont in a pool of vomit in their cabin.



This storm came from the West, from their back. They could see the distant lightning and thunders. Since Tyrion noted Valyria north-east at the end of the chapter, they still did not wing around Valyria but they were close to the accursed shores.



It is clear that this storm was not aimed at their ship. It was savaging some ships behind them and only some the aftershocks of the weakened storm reached them. Neither Penny’s animals nor Tyrion felt something wrong related to that storm.



The sky was fiery-red and blood-red on occasions. That might point to a blood sacrifice done by the Red Priests to summon the storm.



According to the corpse in the barrel=ward against storm theory, the corpse was still on the Stinky Steward and it protected the ship from this storm.



…and the Last



For twelve days now the ship had floated becalmed in the Gulf of Grief.



This time they already swung around Valyria. There was no wind and the ship was just “waiting” in the Gulf of Grief. Valyria was to their West. The last storm came from the West too, which means it came from the accursed Valyria.



Blue sky and blue sea here, but off west … I have never seen a sky that color. A thick band of clouds ran along the horizon. “A bar sinister,” he said to Penny, pointing.


“What does that mean?” she asked.


“It means some big bastard is creeping up behind us.”


He was surprised to find that Moqorro and two of his fiery fingers had joined them on the sterncastle. It was only midday, and the red priest and his men did not normally emerge till dusk. The priest gave him a solemn nod. “There you see it, Hugor Hill. God’s wroth. The Lord of Light will not be mocked.”


Tyrion had a bad feeling about this. “The widow said this ship would never reach her destination. I took that to mean that once we were out to sea beyond the reach of triarchs, the captain would change course for Meereen. Or perhaps that you would seize the ship with your Fiery Hand and take us to Daenerys. But that isn’t what your high priest saw at all, is it?”


“No.” Moqorro’s deep voice tolled as solemnly as a funeral bell. “This is what he saw.” The red priest lifted his staff, and inclined its head toward the west.



For the better part of three hours they ran before the wind, as the storm grew closer. The western sky went green, then grey, then black. A wall of dark clouds loomed up behind them, churning like a kettle of milk left on the fire too long. Tyrion and Penny watched from the forecastle, huddled by the figurehead and holding hands, careful to stay out of the way of captain and crew.


The last storm had been thrilling, intoxicating, a sudden squall that had left him feeling cleansed and refreshed. This one felt different right from the first. The captain sensed it too. He changed their course to north by northeast to try and get out of the storm’s path.



Pretty and Crunch were were both half-mad with fear. The dog was barking, barking, barking.



The storm raged for the rest of that day and well into the night. Wet winds howled around them and waves rose like the fists of drowned giants to smash down on their decks. Above, they learned later, a mate and two sailors were swept overboard, the ship’s cook was blinded when a kettle of hot grease flew up into his face, and the captain was thrown from the sterncastle to the main deck so violently he broke both legs. Below, Crunch howled and barked and snapped at Penny, and Pretty Pig began to shit again, turning the cramped, damp cabin into a sty.



Nearby midnight the winds finally died away, and the sea grew calm enough for Tyrion to make his way back up onto deck. What he saw there did not reassure him. The cog was drifting on a sea of dragonglass beneath a bowl of stars, but all around the storm raged on. East, west, north, south, everywhere he looked, the clouds rose up like black mountains, their tumbled slopes and collossal cliffs alive with blue and purple lightning. No rain was falling, but the decks were slick and wet underfoot.



This is what Benerro saw according to Moqorro. From the beginning, this storm felt different than the one before. Tyrion was filled with bad feeling and Penny’s animals went mad. They probably felt the magic.



As I told before, storms cannot be used with much precision. Although this storm was targeted at their ship, it took a lot of time to catch them and it was not strong enough to break their mast and turn the ship into a ruin. For that, something else was needed.



Tyrion could hear someone screaming from below, a thin, high voice hysterical with fear. He could hear Moqorro too. The red priest stood on the forecastle facing the storm, his staff raised above his head as he boomed a prayer. Amidships, a dozen sailors and two of the fiery fingers were struggling with tangled lines and sodden canvas, but whether they were trying to raise the sail again or pull it down he never knew. Whatever they were doing, it seemed to him a very bad idea. And so it was.


The wind returned as a whispered threat, cold and damp, brushing over his cheek, flapping the wet sail, swirling and tugging at Moqorro’s scarlet robes. Some instinct made Tyrion grab hold of the nearest rail, just in time. In the space of three heartbeats the little breeze became a howling gale. Moqorro shouted something, and green flames leapt from the dragon’s maw atop his staff to vanish in the night. Then the rains came, black and blinding, and forecastle and sterncastle both vanished behind a wall of water. Something huge flapped overhead, and Tyrion glanced up in time to see the sail taking wing, with two men still dangling from the lines. Then he heard a crack. Oh, bloody hell, he had time to think, that had to be the mast.



Moqorro commanded the sail to be raised and once it was raised, he summoned that bullet like wind, which broke the mast thanks to the foolish act of not pulling the sail down.



Nine men had been lost, including a mate, two of the fiery fingers, and Moqorro himself.



And that is how Moqorro left the ship. According to his claim, he stayed 10 days in the sea when he was picked up by Grief. A perfect timing.



Conclusion



Moqorro is going to meet Victarion under these conditions according to my suggestion. The first thing he expects from him is to break the Yunkish Siege. After that, his purposes are not so clear, especially the ones concerning the dragonhorn.


Link to comment
Share on other sites

ADwD – The Dark Flame

Really nice job, as always Paper Waver

Gotta hand it to you; you really made me re-think the storms in these Tyrion chapters. There is nothing unusual about storms at sea, obviously, but the way you put some of these clues together is quite interesting.

“Two days from now, the cog Selaesori Qhoran will set sail for Qarth by way of New Ghis, carrying tin and iron, bales of wool and lace, fifty Myrish carpets, a corpse pickled in brine, twenty jars of dragon peppers, and a red priest. Be on her when she sails.”

That corpse is really intriguing. It gave birth to some crackpot theories such as Moqorro was actually Marwyn and that corpse was Aemon, which I don’t buy because of many issues such as the timeline etc. It is strange that we never heard about that corpse again.

A widow brought the dried corpse of her husband, covered with a crust of silvered leaves; such remnants were believed to have great power, especially if the deceased had been a sorcerer, as this one had.

The two quotes, when put together like this, suggest that the corpse pickled in brine must have been a sorcerer as well if it's being used for magic. Or perhaps, a fellow Red Priest? Wanna bet that if it's the latter, he offered himself up willingly "for the cause" as it were? Makes me wonder if another Red Priest(ess) won't offer up herself in sacrifice for something.

I don't have a whole lot to add because you covered this so well, but it does raise the question of just how powerful these Red Priests in Essos are. Mel has certain gifts but she also uses a lot of trickery to get men to believe in her because in the end, she figures it will be worth it. But Benerro seems to be on a whole different playing field when it comes to power, if indeed your theory is right that he's causing these storms.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

×
×
  • Create New...