Westeros wariors tier list

[Lord Lothston]

I'm just going to facepalm at this point.

Sword thrusting would have more power but at that point you would be well within reach of his weapon. Any type of block with a shield means you would have to absorb the kinetic energy, which for most people would send them flying if not breaking a bone in the arm. The only effective block with that much power would be finding a way to make all the blows glance off, rather than take the hit. Most of these knights would end up being pummeled. The Viper happened to have the right tactic be the most effective one for that case (I'm sure that was no coincidence on his part).

Notwithstanding, for many of these fighters the one with less skill will win if they are in the right situation or they have the right equipment.

The armor has padding under it. It works like a Hockey helmet It stops the blow and transfers the force away from the impact point. The riot helmet of a police officer can take a very hard impact without him feeling it. Unless your shield is surgically mounted to the long bones in your arm its not gonna break your arm. Why in the hell would your arm break? If shields caused severe injury to the shield holder I think that would be noticed.

[Light a wight tonight]

Ranking Westerosi fighters, iteration 237. Ho hum.

[Collis]

The armor has padding under it. It works like a Hockey helmet It stops the blow and transfers the force away from the impact point. The riot helmet of a police officer can take a very hard impact without him feeling it. Unless your shield is surgically mounted to the long bones in your arm its not gonna break your arm. Why in the hell would your arm break? If shields caused severe injury to the shield holder I think that would be noticed.

Figuring in Gregor's size and strength, something is going to happen. If you rely on glancing blows all the time, it can be done--but that's provided whoever is fighting him makes ZERO mistakes. You accidentally take one full on or at a bad angle, that's it. People overestimate the shield blocking--too much WoW and tanking. Lol

[JoeyBanana]

Garlan was Renly's Ghost? Is there something inherently better about Renly's Ghost in terms of swordfighting? Otherwise, Garlan is Garlan and he's a good swordfighter. And you can fight three men at once without being the greatest swordsman of all time btw, chances are Garlan was just fighting run-of-the-mill guards and not highly trained warriors. No more.

Renly's Ghost played a significant role in Stannis' defeat. It only helps Garlan's cause as a top tier warrior. The training is not supposed to make him a fancy stickswinger but prepare him for battle conditions.

I'm not denying he's strong, but the point is that he isn't strong enough to make a significant difference against most other swordsmen. For instance, Gregor Clegane is immensely strong, but he can still be beaten by Sandor because the latter is strong enough to withstand his blows and turn them away. Greatjon is a foot smaller than Gregor, and most other great warriors are probably not a foot shorter than him. Point is, strength is usually not a big enough advantage that you can't overcome it with better skill. We know absolutely jackshit about Greatjon's fighting ability other than he can withstand a lot of pain and he's strong. Where does it say he always leads the van? Not to mention that he's not a major enough character to write about if he did or didn't get wounds - the fact that we aren't told is not an argument. Until we receive more information from George, it is entirely spurious to put the Greatjon high up in the rankings.

This is so full of baseless assumptions. Yes, we know very little about his fights, but everything Martin let's us know, indicates that he is superior to most other Northmen. When Robb needs a van, he chooses him. When the Freys worry about/try to take out potentially troublesome opponents at the RW, they specifically focus on him, and not on Robb's personal guard who should be by all the rules of common sense the very first fighters you take precautions against. Especially those who are noted to have defended Robb successfully against Jaime's attack at the Whispering Wood.

Smalljon and Dacey Mormont are pretty minor characters, and there are hundreds of minor named characters. Should we include all of them?

No. We should only include those who fought at tourneys, trials by battle, or epic duels. Please, let's not try to dilute our shiny lists with warriors who actually fought in wars and battles during aSoIaF.

Seriously though, it's just an imaginary ranking based on personal bias. No reason to not include them, really.

[Fat Mac]

Anything that does not include Prime Robert in tier 1 is incorrect in my eyes.

[michaelx]

I could definitely get behind this list with a few minor changes. I'm just not sure about the mid-tier. Robert Baratheon and Syrio forel are equals? I doubt it. The same goes for Bronn, is he really equal to Prime Robert? Move Robert to high-tier along with Gregor Clegane.

Oberyn Vs Prime Robert would be interesting but I think Oberyn might win in a similar way to how he (almost) won against Gregor. Robert was also a very big man and Oberyn could use his strength against him.

Robert was nothing special when it came to technical skill. He was just a fierce and strong warrior who happened to have a unorthodox weapon (warhammer) to complement his insane strength. Any top tier knight would beat him. Same goes for Gregor.

You're right about Oberyn. I think Oberyn vs Sandor would be a more interesting match up. And I can definitely move up Syrio.

Jaime, Gwayne and Cregan should be in the top tier.

Robert, Gregor and Syrio should be in the second.

Oberyn we only saw fight once, and that was cross-styles. I reckon second or third.

1. Elite Tier is for the Apex Predators (the absolute top). I don't think any of these 3 can beat those 4.

2. Agreed. They should be in the same tier, but not High Tier (according to my list).

3. So, what? The fact that he used a spear not only shows that he is a great strategic fighter, but also possesses technical skill. I could see him improvise in pretty much any situation.

[Hodor's Dragon]

Brienne was KG to Renly. And Renly had no claim at all.

Renly had the largest army raised in Westeros in the published books, by far. I don't think making his Kingsguard - or winning the melee at his tourney - was an easy thing to do.

[TheOldWolf]

Renly had the largest army raised in Westeros in the published books, by far. I don't think making his Kingsguard - or winning the melee at his tourney - was an easy thing to do.

I'm not denying briennes fighting capability. I'm just saying Renly had no claim to the throne. IMO Brienne is definitely in the top 10 fighters still alive in the books

[ShenSnake]

GRRM said Jaime would beat Aragorn.......bit different but thats enough to justify top tier for me

[michaelx]

1. George has confirmed in an SSM that Jaime is one of the most legendary swordsmen in the history of Westeros. Gwayne I put up there because he fought Daemon for *hours* (IIRC), which means they were pretty closely matched - or Daemon would have finished it sooner. Cregan was near as good as Aemon, maybe as good or better. (Described by Aemon as one of the best he'd ever fought, we don't know who won)

2. I dunno. If there is an elite, they should be in the one below that I think. I say that based on the list of people you have in the 'Mid' tier in your post, since these three are leagues ahead of those three.

3. Well, we have no idea if Oberyn was any good with anything other than a spear. (Esp. since he was Dornish). Still, yeah he's possessed of plenty of ability with a spear - not denying that. But I mean the fact that he could beat Gregor is based entirely on his choice of weapon, and we have no idea if that style would work against most regular warriors. It's definitely too much to say he's top tier.

1. Here is the thing: It's all relative. The difference between Elite and High on my list might not be the same as yours. The reason I made Elite is because those guys were considered special. I mean Daemon was considered a literal GOD. Easily the best of his time. Aemon - same thing. Dayne - no explanation needed. Selmy - On-par with Dayne without Dawn and probably has the best feats. Jaime is definitely one of the best, but lets face it he wasn't the "best" in any time when it actually mattered. For example - If there was a 1v1 duel between Jaime and Sandor, I won't be 100% certain in Jaime's favor. On the other hand if it was Daemon or Dayne vs Sandor. I ll definitely favor them without any hesitation. That little edge is what separates those 2 tiers. IMO offcourse.

2. Ahk. Well in that case I'm just going to exclude the starks (low tiers) and push the other guys from Mid to Low tier. It's still an incomplete list though.

3. To each his own. Some guys here think that Robert is top tier, but what has he really done? He barely killed Rhaegar (above average swordsman), despite having a better weapon and in return suffered serious wounds. The guy had to send Ned to KG. I think Oberyn definitely has what it takes to be a high tier. He is agile, technically skilled and mentally strong with a good strategic mind. I'm probably a little biased, but yeah.

[LordQorgyle]

Top guys:

Daemon Blackfyre

Aemon The Dragonknight

Demon of Darry

Jaime Lannister

Gwayne Corbray

Cregan Stark

Arthur Dayne

Barristan Selmy

Seconds:

Sandor Clegane

Garlan Tyrell

Lyn Corbray

Robert Baratheon

Yohn Royce

Gregor Clegane

Loras Tyrell

Oberyn Martell

Lewyn Martell

Oswell Whent

Gerold Hightower

Andrik The Unsmilling

Greatjon Umber

Third

Bronn

Daario Naharis

Jorah Mormont

Brienne Tarth

Robar Royce

Balon Swann

Victarion Greyjoy

Black Walder Frey

Hosteen Frey

Qarl The Maiden

Iron Emmett

Qhorin Halfhand

Lothor Brune

Archibald Yronwood

Gerold Dayne

Jon Connington

Lyle Crakehall

Thoros of Myr

Beric Dondarrion

Fourth:

Walder Rivers

Justin Massey

Richard Horpe

Ser Shadrich

Yoren

Ned Stark

Arys Oakheart

Osmund Kettleblack

Meryn Trant

Osfryd Kettleblack

Tristifer Botley

Fifth

Ronnet Connington

Jon Bettley

Jon Snow

Robb Stark

Jory Cassell

Alliser Thorne

Ser Dermot

Rodrik Cassell

Ilyn Payne

Addam Marbrand

Sixth:

Janos Slynt

Lancel Lannister

Cleos Frey

Boros Blount

Theon Greyjoy

Ramsay Snow

[MelanisticMelisandre]

Top guys:

Daemon Blackfyre

Aemon The Dragonknight

Demon of Darry

Jaime Lannister

Gwayne Corbray

Cregan Stark

Arthur Dayne

Barristan Selmy

Seconds:

Sandor Clegane

Garlan Tyrell

Lyn Corbray

Robert Baratheon

Yohn Royce

Gregor Clegane

Loras Tyrell

Oberyn Martell

Lewyn Martell

Oswell Whent

Gerold Hightower

Andrik The Unsmilling

Greatjon Umber

Third

Bronn

Daario Naharis

Jorah Mormont

Brienne Tarth

Robar Royce

Balon Swann

Victarion Greyjoy

Black Walder Frey

Hosteen Frey

Qarl The Maiden

Iron Emmett

Qhorin Halfhand

Lothor Brune

Archibald Yronwood

Gerold Dayne

Jon Connington

Lyle Crakehall

Thoros of Myr

Beric Dondarrion

Fourth:

Walder Rivers

Justin Massey

Richard Horpe

Ser Shadrich

Yoren

Ned Stark

Arys Oakheart

Osmund Kettleblack

Meryn Trant

Osfryd Kettleblack

Tristifer Botley

Fifth

Ronnet Connington

Jon Bettley

Jon Snow

Robb Stark

Jory Cassell

Alliser Thorne

Ser Dermot

Rodrik Cassell

Ilyn Payne

Addam Marbrand

Sixth:

Janos Slynt

Lancel Lannister

Cleos Frey

Boros Blount

Theon Greyjoy

Ramsay Snow

Very accurate! No objections!

[Damp Hair - The Prophet]

1st - Victarion Greyjoy

2nd - Dragons

3rd etc. - Everybody else

[tyrions@]

Tier 1: Arthur Dayne for sure. He is commonly thought of as one of the greatest knights who ever lived in a society that only really remembers great warriors. Also Ned said that he was the greatest knight he ever seen and he knew guys like Barriston, Robert and Rhaegar. Barriston would also be in tier 1 because GRRM said he and Arthur Dayne would be equal if not for Dawn. After that no one else is tier 1 unless you go back a few generations. Tier 2: Jamie, the Blackfish, Gregor, Sandor, Oberyn, Robert and Rhaegar Tier 3: the Greatjon, Loras, Garlan, Bronn, Yohn Royce, Brienne, Mance and Quorin. Tier 4: Jon( he is probably borderline tier 3) Ned, and countless others are in this category

[PirateVergo]

I still don't understand why Ned is ranked higher than Jon when he's said to be average whereas Jon is on par with Iron Emmet who's absolutely not an average swordsman.

[Sullen]

Top guys:

Daemon Blackfyre

Aemon The Dragonknight

Demon of Darry

Jaime Lannister

Gwayne Corbray

Cregan Stark

Arthur Dayne

Barristan Selmy

Seconds:

Sandor Clegane

Garlan Tyrell

Lyn Corbray

Robert Baratheon

Yohn Royce

Gregor Clegane

Loras Tyrell

Oberyn Martell

Lewyn Martell

Oswell Whent

Gerold Hightower

Andrik The Unsmilling

Greatjon Umber

Third

Bronn

Daario Naharis

Jorah Mormont

Brienne Tarth

Robar Royce

Balon Swann

Victarion Greyjoy

Black Walder Frey

Hosteen Frey

Qarl The Maiden

Iron Emmett

Qhorin Halfhand

Lothor Brune

Archibald Yronwood

Gerold Dayne

Jon Connington

Lyle Crakehall

Thoros of Myr

Beric Dondarrion

Fourth:

Walder Rivers

Justin Massey

Richard Horpe

Ser Shadrich

Yoren

Ned Stark

Arys Oakheart

Osmund Kettleblack

Meryn Trant

Osfryd Kettleblack

Tristifer Botley

Fifth

Ronnet Connington

Jon Bettley

Jon Snow

Robb Stark

Jory Cassell

Alliser Thorne

Ser Dermot

Rodrik Cassell

Ilyn Payne

Addam Marbrand

Sixth:

Janos Slynt

Lancel Lannister

Cleos Frey

Boros Blount

Theon Greyjoy

Ramsay Snow

Excellent list, except for two things.

Ned is a bit too high, I'd put him at fifth, he was said by George himself to be average.

And Theon deserves to be considerably higher if his skill with a bow is accounted for, he was a prodigious archer after all.

[PirateVergo]

Because Jon still hasn't reached his prime, he's still significantly weaker (and with less reach) than Ned

That doesn't mean anything anything, Jaime and Barristan were already able to beat adults at the age of 15.

Jon is not in his prime but he is more talented than Ned with a sword, he's practicing a lot and it pays off.

Also, Jon only actually beat Iron Emmet once when he went all beserk. Other than that he got a lot of bruises, iirc

It's still an impressive feat since Iron Emmet is an excellent swordsman the pride of Eastwatch.

[PirateVergo]

Some people are able to beat adults before their prime =/= all people should be able to. He is still not in his prime, and I do not expect him to be as good as Jaime or Barristan anyway. More talented, perhaps, but he's 30 years down in terms of experience and practice.

Jon doesn't need to be as talented as Jaime or Selmy to take on Eddard who's average and nothing more.

Loras Tyrell would wipe the floor with Ned no difficulty and he's just 1 year older than Jon, so yes Jon isn't a genius like Loras but still not average.

Omg, the pride of a place that has at best 100-150 rangers, of whom probably less than 50 are decent swordsmen who are in their prime! Not exactly a fucking challenge, aye? Being labelled the Pride of Eastwatch means absolutely jackshit if you don't know the quality of the men he's judged by. Tyrion would be the pride of Kings Landing if everyone else there was Samwell Tarly.

Not only he's said to be the pride of Eastwatch but he's also described as a terrific swordsman by Jon Snow.

Iron Emmet isn't any worse than Meryn Trant or Beric Dondarrion based on his portrayal.

[Collis]

Very accurate! No objections!

Where is THORmund?

[Damp Hair - The Prophet]

Seriously though, as someone who practices HEMA (HistoricEuropeanMartialArts) mostly w/ longsword and fights three times a week w/ a couple dozen different fighters at a swordclub, there's some things you guys should know about this list thing you've got going on here.

1st. Speed kills. It's not as important as footwork, but all things being equal (size, skill level), the faster or better conditioned fighter will typically win. That's just nature, and it's why young newbs can still score hits on us older more experienced fighters.

2nd. Well practiced, perfect technique is a million times more important than whatever natural ability you might have. Also toughness or strength of will doesn't mean much. Critical injury will take out anyone.

3rd. Mind games. Combat can be as much a mental match as it is physical.

4th. Weapon of choice & armor are significant X factors to these hypotheticals, as are size and age and training which we don't always know about. if Valyrian weapons cut through other weapons or armor then they would be a huge advantage, otherwise, not so much as is lead to be believed.

Just some added perspective from someone who actually duels people in the manner being discussed here. You guys should search for clubs in your area & give it a try.