Advanced Crackpottery 2 - Wighting Theory

[Lady Blizzardborn]

Wighting Theory

The word wight seems to come from Old or Middle English and was used to describe an unfortunate sentient being. This was always applied to the living in real life usage, whereas in literary terms a wight is a spirit, an undead being, a ghost, etc., always associated with a post-death entity.

We've seen wights in the books. They are corpses who have been reanimated by the Others, using some kind of magic. They have bright blue eyes and black hands, from congealed blood. They have no discernible will of their own, and they do not speak. They are essentially slaves to the Others.

AGoT, Bran's POV, Osha speaking: "The cold winds are rising, and men go out from their fires and never come back ... or if they do, they're not men no more, but only wights, with blue eyes and cold black hands."

But then we've also seen Coldhands, who dresses like a man of the Night's Watch and seems to be similar to wights, yet there are some key differences. His wiki entry does not classify him as a wight, yet he's very much dead (he doesn't breathe, and according to Leaf "they killed him long ago"), has black eyes instead of blue like the wights, has black skin from the congealed blood in his extremities, and perhaps most notably different from the wights--he talks.

So what the heck is going on there? To answer thatquestion, and hopefully others, I give you my theory of wighting.

The Basics

There are two different forms of wighting: dead wighting (which we have seen in the books) and live wighting which is alluded to with the story of Night’s King “...when he gave her his seed he gave her his soul.”

Dead wighting is pretty straightforward. Take dead body, apply magic needed for wighting. Voila! Instant wight.

Live wighting on the other hand, is a bit trickier. This is where my theory begins.

The basics of Live Wighting

Live wighting can only be done with the consent of the wightee or on a wightee who is incapable of giving or refusing consent (i.e. Craster’s baby sons). There actually is an example of a live wight in the series: Night's King.

A Storm of Swords, Bran's POV, Old Nan speaking "...when he gave her his seed, he gave her his soul."

Clearly he was alive when he chased after his Other woman. But after getting together with her, he changed, turning his back on his vows, declaring himself king and her queen.

Heart tree protection

Members of the Night’s Watch who take their vows in front of a heart tree are protected from involuntary wighting during life and after death as well. (this is not my original theory, it was posted by another member to whom I give full credit. If you are this member, please chime in on the thread so that I may properly assign said credit and tell you how brilliant you are!)

The fine points

--Members of the Watch who took their vows in front of a heart tree cannot be live wighted against their will but they can volunteer for live wighting.

--Any attempt at wighting a Night's Watch member who has taken the vows in front of a heart tree has very different effects than standard wighting. Namely that while the intended wightee does undergo a transformation, he or she will not become a thrall to the Others, but retain his or her own consciousness and free will. This backfired wighting can occur either before or after the person’s death.

--Dead wighting does not work on a member of the NW who took vows in front of a heart tree because they are protected after death as well as in life. If said member has not volunteered to be wighted during his lifetime, his refusal to cooperate with all forms of wighting is implied.

--Live wighted individuals do not become Others. They become a sort of hybrid between the two species. Thus Night's King was not truly an Other.

This doesn't really answer why Coldhands is not listed as a wight. I admit that one's got me stumped. According to my theory he should be a heart-tree-vow-protected-dead-wight or a heart-tree-vow-protected-live-wight who was killed later, so technically a wight. I could see how that would get confusing though. Perhaps there is another term waiting for heart-tree-protected-undead.

So...thoughts?

[It-was-koff-the-Pie-koff]

Where is the proof for all this? I mean it sounds cool but where is the beef?

[Lady Flandrensis]

I'd like to know where the "heart-tree-protection" is in the books. Likely I've forgotten it if it's in there because it doesn't ring a bell at all. Unless this truly is advanced crackpottery. In which case I'll add that the unWights could be the natural leaders of all Wights and that The Others will fight them.

[It-was-koff-the-Pie-koff]

I'd like to know where the "heart-tree-protection" is in the books. Likely I've forgotten it if it's in there because it doesn't ring a bell at all. Unless this truly is advanced crackpottery. In which case I'll add that the unWights could be the natural leaders of all Wights and that The Others will fight them.

If there is weirwood protection, why are there wildling wights?

Check and mate.

[Daemon Blackfyre IV]

maybe Targs or Starks can not be totally transformed magic in kings blood maybe CH is Benjen but if he's been dead a really long time i think he's Daemon Blackfyre II who was probably sent to the wall and experimented on by Bloodraven.

[Lady Flandrensis]

If there is weirwood protection, why are there wildling wights?

Check and mate

Well done you..

[JoeyBanana]

Well, we already know through Thoros and Melisandre that the same form of magic can be used for different goals and with different effects.

It could simply be that Bloodraven chose this form of wighting because a Coldhands able to talk, think, and remember is more useful to protect Bran. The Others may just have no need for that kind of wight, at least not to our knowledge.

[Lady Blizzardborn]

If there is weirwood protection, why are there wildling wights?

Check and mate.

Not check and mate by any means. The Wildlings never took vows in front of a heart tree.

[Lady Blizzardborn]

Where is the proof for all this? I mean it sounds cool but where is the beef?

Did you notice the heading of Advanced Crackpottery? There is no proof thus far. That's why it's advanced, as opposed to being a regular crackpot.

[Lady Blizzardborn]

I'd like to know where the "heart-tree-protection" is in the books. Likely I've forgotten it if it's in there because it doesn't ring a bell at all. Unless this truly is advanced crackpottery. In which case I'll add that the unWights could be the natural leaders of all Wights and that The Others will fight them.

It's not in the books so far. Given that we don't know what the next books will hold, it's still possible though.

There has to be a reason why Coldhands is different from the other undead who are north of the Wall. This is an attempt at explaining why he is the way he is.

If by unWights you mean Coldhands-like characters, I don't see them as leading the wights given that Coldhands protects people like Sam, Gilly, Bran, Meera, Jojen and Hodor from those same wights. Either the wights aren't very obedient, or they are not working with CH.

[Lady Blizzardborn]

Well, we already know through Thoros and Melisandre that the same form of magic can be used for different goals and with different effects.

It could simply be that Bloodraven chose this form of wighting because a Coldhands able to talk, think, and remember is more useful to protect Bran. The Others may just have no need for that kind of wight, at least not to our knowledge.

Also possible.

The only powers of BR's that we've seen at this point are the standard greenseer things. Wighting isn't a greenseer magic, but another kind altogether. It will be interesting what all we learn about wighting, and more specifically about BR's powers in TWoW.

[jeyneofthed'Ubervilles]

There are many cases of the dead coming back to life. In addition to wights and the Night's King, there's Melissandra, Robert Strong, Lady Stoneheart, etc. Lately I've been wondering if there are different classes of undead. Specifically, are all undead persons enthralled by their makers?

This theory could explain why Mel does things of her own volition, while the wights are so mindless.

However, Lady stoneheart was definitely dead before being resurrected. I've long suspected that Thoros's zombies are more enthralled than innocent bumbling Thoros is prepared to admit. But maybe thats just because I don't like or trust red priests.

[Lady Blizzardborn]

There are many cases of the dead coming back to life. In addition to wights and the Night's King, there's Melissandra, Robert Strong, Lady Stoneheart, etc. Lately I've been wondering if there are different classes of undead. Specifically, are all undead persons enthralled by their makers?

This theory could explain why Mel does things of her own volition, while the wights are so mindless.

However, Lady stoneheart was definitely dead before being resurrected. I've long suspected that Thoros's zombies are more enthralled than innocent bumbling Thoros is prepared to admit. But maybe thats just because I don't like or trust red priests.

That's a good point.

Mel was dead? I don't recall that from the books. She's older than she looks, but I don't remember anything about her being undead. Of course it's possible, and it would explain why she doesn't need to sleep and is immune to the strangler. She would be the fire equivalent of Coldhands then. Able to make her own choices, but still doomed to some kind of eternal servitude.

We're not sure about Night's King. He may not ever have been killed. Dabbling in magic seems to result in prolonged life for some characters, Bloodraven, Mel if she's not undead, etc.

Yes, Lady Stoneheart was so dead that Thoros didn't want to bring her back. He seemed to know, or at least suspect, that it wouldn't work out well.

[jeyneofthed'Ubervilles]

That's a good point.

Mel was dead? I don't recall that from the books. She's older than she looks, but I don't remember anything about her being undead. Of course it's possible, and it would explain why she doesn't need to sleep and is immune to the strangler. She would be the fire equivalent of Coldhands then. Able to make her own choices, but still doomed to some kind of eternal servitude.

We're not sure about Night's King. He may not ever have been killed. Dabbling in magic seems to result in prolonged life for some characters, Bloodraven, Mel if she's not undead, etc.

Yes, Lady Stoneheart was so dead that Thoros didn't want to bring her back. He seemed to know, or at least suspect, that it wouldn't work out well.

She also doesn't have to eat.

And yea, Thoros has this whole song and dance about how Beric defied him, and he doesn't approve of Lady S. Maybe he's for real. But like I said, I don't like or trust red priests. Generally I don't like any priests in this world or that, but the cult of Red R'hllor reminds me of the religious right. And that's a special kind of scary.

[Lady Blizzardborn]

I forgot that Mel doesn't eat.

The R'hllorists seem to be a rather mixed bag. Mel means well but isn't very good at her job. Thoros is a bit of a bumbling fool. Moqorro is dangerous, I think.

We have such limited information about the whole undead issue for the Others/Ice forces, but even less for the Fire side of things. Fire Wights? Red Walkers? Not sure what to call them really.

[Suzanna Stormborn]

Interesting....But so wouldnt Coldhands be a perfect example of a wight with his own thoughts??

What do you mean COldhands isn't 'listed' as a wight?

[Arkash]

Still awaiting to see a female Other in the books...

[Lady Blizzardborn]

Interesting....But so wouldnt Coldhands be a perfect example of a wight with his own thoughts??

What do you mean COldhands isn't 'listed' as a wight?

Yes. That's what makes him different, as I pointed out. Under the theory he's the result of the Others trying to wight a NW member who had said his NW vows in front of a heart tree. So whatever happened to him is basically what happens when wighting backfires. Don't really have a name for his condition yet.

The Wiki article about Coldhands does not refer to him as a wight at any point. In the Wights article on the Wiki there are characters listed who are wights, and Coldhands isn't on the list. I find it curious.

[Lady Blizzardborn]

Still awaiting to see a female Other in the books...

We don't know that we haven't. Any of the Others involved in killing Ser Waymar Royce could have been female. The lack of an Other POV really limits our knowledge on this subject.

And there was Night's Queen, who was probably an Other.

[Lady Blizzardborn]

By the way, why is it that everyone (ok just 99%) assumes we haven't seen any female Others?

I know it's off-topic but I find that puzzling.

Also, does anyone have thoughts about the fire wights? My theory really only covers ice wighting, but I'd like to discuss the other side of the undead coin.