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R+L=J v 87


Stubby

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The arguments for Aemon are sound, but from the Stark perspective and what may have motivated Ned name to him Jon, I think the following is interesting:

"King Jon Stark was King in the North and head of House Stark before the War of the Conquest. His son, Rickard, followed him on the throne and annexed the Neck to the Kingdom of the North

When sea raiders landed in the east, he drove them out and built the castle Wolf's Den at the mouth of the White Knife, so as to be able to defend the mouth of the river." -Wiki

The parallel of secret names in other works as well are significant, (in "Dune" to cover the face he was Paul Atreides, he was called "Muadib"), and I think the Manderlys role in the North to help restore the Starks will only grow.

I actually love this as an explanation for why Ned might have chosen Jon. Perhaps there is some convention that prevented him from giving the child (being passed off as a Snow) an iconic Stark name. Jon references a past Stark, while on the surface appears to be an homage to Jon Arryn. And then there's this...

I initially backed the name Aemon, because it has been a common and important name throughout the series, but there hasn't been one in a while and because of the Egg parallels. I have since been pretty persuaded for arguments for both Viserys and Aegon. I think I'm gravitating back to Aemon now though. And perhaps like the Dragonknight and the maester, Jon will also never be king. Or maybe he'll be Aemon the first of his name.

Since I happen to believe that Jon, rightful king though he may be, will never sit the IT, this further parallel is really sweet.

Love this deduction!

Also Aegon V and Aemon got on well, so there might have been a bit of a wish to see Aegon and Jon get on equally well.

:D

Which is also a parallel of Neds prayer in the godswood about Robb and Jon being as close as..............

:bowdown: wonderful!

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hi everyone, im a newbie i just have been reading the forum for about a month and i love all the stories, theories about R+L=J so much. you're all incredible keep posting



btw, has anyone read this fanfic : of dragons, roses and a second-hand match (joely-jo). Such a beautiful and sad story.i have made up my mind that this is the way it happened. hope that GRRM doesnt do anything too unexpected

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Hello and welcome to the forums!



Just, I think you might want to edit your post and remove that reference and link, fanfic is against the forum rules as GRRM disapproves of it.


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I actually love this as an explanation for why Ned might have chosen Jon. Perhaps there is some convention that prevented him from giving the child (being passed off as a Snow) an iconic Stark name. Jon references a past Stark, while on the surface appears to be an homage to Jon Arryn. And then there's this...

Since I happen to believe that Jon, rightful king though he may be, will never sit the IT, this further parallel is really sweet.

:D

:bowdown: wonderful!

No, you and "you know what." :bowdown: :ph34r: :P

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I must admit that I probably underestimated Lyanna's familiarity with the name Aemon up thread; e.g., Old Nan's stories.



More possible Jon=Aemon foreshadowing with Daemon Blackfyre's twin sons, Aegon and Aemon. Rhaegar was "bookish to a fault" until one day he declared: “I will require sword and armor. It seems I must be a warrior." - ASoS, Daenerys I. In The Sworn Sword, Ser Eustace Osgrey says of Daemon Blackfyre: “With ax or lance or flail, he was as good as any knight I ever saw, but with the sword he was the Warrior himself.”



Btw, the Daemon-Rhaegar (and Jon) parallels also include the concept of "black dragon." Jon tells Robb that black was always his color. - AGoT, Jon II. And Rhaegar's armor was famously black: the Targaryen prince armored all in black; gleaming black plate. So, Daemon, the black dragon, had twin sons named Aegon and Aemon, and was the Warrior himself with the sword. Rhaegar, a dragon in black, had two sons, and intended to be a warrior. But he did not have the sword (Jon-as-LB, if you subscribe to R+L=Lightbringer as I do) when he met Robert in battle. Not that Rhaegar was going to pelt Robert with repeated blows from baby Jon, but that the existence of a legitimate Jon might have cut a bit a big part out of the rebellion; the North.


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I initially backed the name Aemon, because it has been a common and important name throughout the series, but there hasn't been one in a while and because of the Egg parallels. I have since been pretty persuaded for arguments for both Viserys and Aegon. I think I'm gravitating back to Aemon now though. And perhaps like the Dragonknight and the maester, Jon will also never be king. Or maybe he'll be Aemon the first of his name.

The show makes me think that Jon will be First of his name if he ends up King:

The episode "First of his name" is about the coronation of Tommen but the scene is like two minutes of the episode and we get Jon for half the episode ! Plus, Carl-the-raper bows to Jon exactly like the Lords and Ladies bowed to Tommen during the ceremony. We also get the vision of the throne room covered in snow in that episode and the revelation that "snow falling" in a vision = Jon Snow because that is Jon that kills Carl-the-raper, and Jojen had predicted his death by saying someting about falling snow.

ps: Happy 14 juillet to all the French !

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The show makes me think that Jon will be First of his name if he ends up King:

[spoiler/]The episode "First of his name" is about the coronation of Tommen but the scene is like two minutes of the episode and we get Jon for half the episode ! Plus, Carl-the-raper bow to Jon exactly like the Lords and Ladies bowed to Tommen during the ceremony. We also get the vision of the throne room covered in snow in that episode and the revelation that "snow falling" in a vision = Jon Snow because that is Jon that kills Carl-the-raper, and Jojen had predicted his death by saying someting about falling snow.

ps: Happy 14 juillet to all the French !

edit : please someone help me with the spoiler tag !

TEXT HERE [/ spoiler]

NO SPACES

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I like all of these Aemon/Jon connection. It's so GRRM to hide all of these connections, yet subtle enough that it can be seen and be connected together.



Also, Aemon is a variant of Eamon (or Eamonn), which means:



'Rich, wealthy, prosperous Protector' or 'Guardian' in Gaelic, Anglo-Saxon, French, and Irish. ^_^



http://www.sheknows.com/baby-names/name/eamon


http://www.thinkbabynames.com/meaning/1/Eamon


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I really like this Aemon/Jon thing. Great catches, all! :)



Here's my new crackpot. We've theorized before that Bran is going to be the one to see the story of R+L, through the weirwood. I'm wondering now if maybe....in a way...he's going to end up causing it. (Bear with me!) When he's going into the weirnet, when he speaks, the people on the other side of the tree are at least kind of hearing him, even if they're in the past. (Bloodraven says it's not, but Bran's better at it than he ever was; Bloodraven's just wrong.) So I think that maybe at some point during the Howland Reed gets bullied/Lyanna defends him sequence, Bran's going to witness through the weirwood...and he's going to laugh. Maybe at the sight of the bullies all getting their asses kicked by his aunt? And it gives her the idea for the Laughing Tree.



I always just figured she'd seen a really smiley-looking weirwood face (which is pretty unusual in itself, as most of them look pretty stern from what we've read), but she didn't call herself the Knight of the Smiling Tree. Laughter is a sound...



And we already know time is a little wibbly-wobbly timey-wimey when it comes to Bran in the trees.


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I really like this Aemon/Jon thing. Great catches, all! :)

Here's my new crackpot. We've theorized before that Bran is going to be the one to see the story of R+L, through the weirwood. I'm wondering now if maybe....in a way...he's going to end up causing it. (Bear with me!) When he's going into the weirnet, when he speaks, the people on the other side of the tree are at least kind of hearing him, even if they're in the past. (Bloodraven says it's not, but Bran's better at it than he ever was; Bloodraven's just wrong.) So I think that maybe at some point during the Howland Reed gets bullied/Lyanna defends him sequence, Bran's going to witness through the weirwood...and he's going to laugh. Maybe at the sight of the bullies all getting their asses kicked by his aunt? And it gives her the idea for the Laughing Tree.

I always just figured she'd seen a really smiley-looking weirwood face (which is pretty unusual in itself, as most of them look pretty stern from what we've read), but she didn't call herself the Knight of the Smiling Tree. Laughter is a sound...

And we already know time is a little wibbly-wobbly timey-wimey when it comes to Bran in the trees.

O_________________O

Totally wibbly-wobbly-timey-wimey.

So if Bran hadn't laughed, Lyanna might not have gotten the idea to be tKotLT, meaning Rhaegar wouldn't have given her the crown.

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O_________________O

Totally wibbly-wobbly-timey-wimey.

So if Bran hadn't laughed, Lyanna might not have gotten the idea to be tKotLT, meaning Rhaegar wouldn't have given her the crown.

Well, she might well have been the Knight of Something Else and everything still plays out the same. And I might just be cracking pots in vain. It's just something that popped into my head today. :D

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I really like this Aemon/Jon thing. Great catches, all! :)

Here's my new crackpot. We've theorized before that Bran is going to be the one to see the story of R+L, through the weirwood. I'm wondering now if maybe....in a way...he's going to end up causing it. (Bear with me!) When he's going into the weirnet, when he speaks, the people on the other side of the tree are at least kind of hearing him, even if they're in the past. (Bloodraven says it's not, but Bran's better at it than he ever was; Bloodraven's just wrong.) So I think that maybe at some point during the Howland Reed gets bullied/Lyanna defends him sequence, Bran's going to witness through the weirwood...and he's going to laugh. Maybe at the sight of the bullies all getting their asses kicked by his aunt? And it gives her the idea for the Laughing Tree.

I always just figured she'd seen a really smiley-looking weirwood face (which is pretty unusual in itself, as most of them look pretty stern from what we've read), but she didn't call herself the Knight of the Smiling Tree. Laughter is a sound...

And we already know time is a little wibbly-wobbly timey-wimey when it comes to Bran in the trees.

That's kind of an awesome theory, you know ? It would be so cool.

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Well, she might well have been the Knight of Something Else and everything still plays out the same. And I might just be cracking pots in vain. It's just something that popped into my head today. :D

Actually. I have a question. How did Rhaegar know it was Lyanna? Do we know?

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I really like this Aemon/Jon thing. Great catches, all! :)

Here's my new crackpot. We've theorized before that Bran is going to be the one to see the story of R+L, through the weirwood. I'm wondering now if maybe....in a way...he's going to end up causing it. (Bear with me!) When he's going into the weirnet, when he speaks, the people on the other side of the tree are at least kind of hearing him, even if they're in the past. (Bloodraven says it's not, but Bran's better at it than he ever was; Bloodraven's just wrong.) So I think that maybe at some point during the Howland Reed gets bullied/Lyanna defends him sequence, Bran's going to witness through the weirwood...and he's going to laugh. Maybe at the sight of the bullies all getting their asses kicked by his aunt? And it gives her the idea for the Laughing Tree.

I always just figured she'd seen a really smiley-looking weirwood face (which is pretty unusual in itself, as most of them look pretty stern from what we've read), but she didn't call herself the Knight of the Smiling Tree. Laughter is a sound...

And we already know time is a little wibbly-wobbly timey-wimey when it comes to Bran in the trees.

O_________________O

Totally wibbly-wobbly-timey-wimey.

So if Bran hadn't laughed, Lyanna might not have gotten the idea to be tKotLT, meaning Rhaegar wouldn't have given her the crown.

WHOA! QUANTUM-BRAN-INCEPTION!!!???

it makes sense now..

He loved Jon with all his heart at that moment. Even at seven, Bran understood what his brother had done. The count had come right only because Jon had omitted himself.

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Actually. I have a question. How did Rhaegar know it was Lyanna? Do we know?

We don't. The going theory, I think, is that Rhaegar really did find her when he went looking for the Knight in the woods, but lied to Aerys and said he only found the shield.

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I really like this Aemon/Jon thing. Great catches, all! :)

Here's my new crackpot. We've theorized before that Bran is going to be the one to see the story of R+L, through the weirwood. I'm wondering now if maybe....in a way...he's going to end up causing it. (Bear with me!) When he's going into the weirnet, when he speaks, the people on the other side of the tree are at least kind of hearing him, even if they're in the past. (Bloodraven says it's not, but Bran's better at it than he ever was; Bloodraven's just wrong.) So I think that maybe at some point during the Howland Reed gets bullied/Lyanna defends him sequence, Bran's going to witness through the weirwood...and he's going to laugh. Maybe at the sight of the bullies all getting their asses kicked by his aunt? And it gives her the idea for the Laughing Tree.

I always just figured she'd seen a really smiley-looking weirwood face (which is pretty unusual in itself, as most of them look pretty stern from what we've read), but she didn't call herself the Knight of the Smiling Tree. Laughter is a sound...

And we already know time is a little wibbly-wobbly timey-wimey when it comes to Bran in the trees.

That is insane and also entirely plausible.

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Actually. I have a question. How did Rhaegar know it was Lyanna? Do we know?

Oh that one's easy enough. Aerys sent Rhaegar to uncover the knight's identity, remember? Rhaegar snoops around, discovers it's her, they make a deal where she hangs up the lance if he doesn't rat her out to Aerys, and that's all she wrote. Later after he wins, he gives her the laurel as a stealthy way of recognizing her skill, when she couldn't otherwise be publicly lauded for it.

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