R+L=J v 87

[BearQueen87]

We don't. The going theory, I think, is that Rhaegar really did find her when he went looking for the Knight in the woods, but lied to Aerys and said he only found the shield.

That's what I figured.

That is insane and also entirely plausible.

All the best things are. :)

Oh that one's easy enough. Aerys sent Rhaegar to uncover the knight's identity, remember? Rhaegar snoops around, discovers it's her, they make a deal where she hangs up the lance if he doesn't rat her out to Aerys, and that's all she wrote. Later after he wins, he gives her the laurel as a stealthy way of recognizing her skill, when she couldn't otherwise be publicly lauded for it.

Makes total sense.

Thanks both of you!

[Mithras]

Aemon the Dragonknight was captured in Dorne and put in a crow cage over a pit of vipers :)

[UnViserion]

Aemon the Dragonknight was captured in Dorne and put in a crow cage over a pit of vipers :)

*faints*

[IceFire125]

Aemon the Dragonknight was captured in Dorne and put in a crow cage over a pit of vipers :)

whaaaaaaattttt!!!

[jobmartell]

She [Arya] saw her father's face along the wall. Beside him hung her lady mother, and below them her three brothers in a row.

Arya mentions seeing her family, the Starks, in her dream. Odd that it is " three brothers:" Rickon, Robb and Bran, and not four, leaving out Jon, her favorite sibling. A hint that Jon's isn't Arya's brother.

Choice catch.

[Mithras]

Aemon the Dragonknight was brother to King Daeron I who;

1. was called the Young Dragon (also called Boy King)

2. named his uncle Viserys II as his Hand.

3. was known for his bravery and commanding skills. He won a lot of victories.

4. used a hidden goat track to by-pass the mountains and led his army to take the Dornish unawares.

5. was killed by treachery according to semi-canon sources.

Jon Snow was half-brother to King Robb Stark (actually his cousin) who;

1. was called the Young Wolf (also called Boy King)

2. had his uncle Brynden Tully as closest thing to a Hand. Blackfish was named after Brynden Rivers, which also makes him second of his name like Viserys II (sort of).

3. was known for his bravery and commanding skills. He won a lot of victories.

4. used a hidden goat track to by-pass the mountains and led his army to take the Lannisters unawares.

5. was killed by treachery.

[J. Stargaryen]

Aemon the Dragonknight was brother to King Daeron I who;

1. was called the Young Dragon (also called Boy King)

2. named his uncle Viserys II as his Hand.

3. was known for his bravery and commanding skills. He won a lot of victories.

4. used a hidden goat track to by-pass the mountains and led his army to take the Dornish unawares.

5. was killed by treachery according to semi-canon sources.

Jon Snow was half-brother to King Robb Stark (actually his cousin) who;

1. was called the Young Wolf (also called Boy King)

2. had his uncle Brynden Tully as closest thing to a Hand. Blackfish was named after Brynden Rivers, which also makes him second of his name like Viserys II (sort of).

3. was known for his bravery and commanding skills. He won a lot of victories.

4. used a hidden goat track to by-pass the mountains and led his army to take the Lannisters unawares.

5. was killed by treachery.

Jon also had an uncle named Viserys.

[corbon]

Actually. I have a question. How did Rhaegar know it was Lyanna? Do we know?

He's supposed to be smart. The KotLT told the three knights (s)he defeated to "teach their squires honour". All Rhaegar needs to do is interview each of the squires for a few minutes and then he'll know straight where to look for the KotLT.

I think suggestions he persuaded her to hang up the shield are illogical. The KotLT had entirely completed her purpose, publically chastising the squires, by the end of the first day and continuing on in the tourney would only get her inevitably defeated by the better knights later, and just as inevitably found out and in a lot of trouble (with her father at least, but probably everyone else as well).

I think it very much more likely that the KotLT simply went from the last fight to a private place, dis-armed, hung the shield in the tree and retired back to her tent as Lyanna. I expect Rhaegar interviewed the squires some time after being ordered to find the KotLT and then went directly to Lyanna Stark. I expect she told him where he could find the shield afterward.

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

Aemon the Dragonknight was brother to King Daeron I who;

1. was called the Young Dragon (also called Boy King)

2. named his uncle Viserys II as his Hand.

3. was known for his bravery and commanding skills. He won a lot of victories.

4. used a hidden goat track to by-pass the mountains and led his army to take the Dornish unawares.

5. was killed by treachery according to semi-canon sources.

Jon Snow was half-brother to King Robb Stark (actually his cousin) who;

1. was called the Young Wolf (also called Boy King)

2. had his uncle Brynden Tully as closest thing to a Hand. Blackfish was named after Brynden Rivers, which also makes him second of his name like Viserys II (sort of).

3. was known for his bravery and commanding skills. He won a lot of victories.

4. used a hidden goat track to by-pass the mountains and led his army to take the Lannisters unawares.

5. was killed by treachery.

Aemon the Dragonknight was the brother of Aegon IV, not of Daeron I. Daerons brother was Baelor I.

So Aemon and Daeron I were cousins (their fathers were brothers). Just as Jon and Robb are, in truth.

And Jon would be Aegons brother, just as Aemon the Dragonknight had a brother named Aegon. Both Aemon and Jon also had 1 sister, although the name similarity ends there :) .

[Mithras]

Aemon the Dragonknight was the brother of Aegon IV, not of Daeron I. Daerons brother was Baelor I.

So Aemon and Daeron I were cousins (their fathers were brothers). Just as Jon and Robb are, in truth.

And Jon would be Aegons brother, just as Aemon the Dragonknight had a brother named Aegon. Both Aemon and Jon also had 1 sister, although the name similarity ends there :) .

Lol, true. Don't know what I was thinking :D

We can also say that one wore the white cloak and the other wore the black cloak.

Jon also had an uncle named Viserys.

Seven save us, he did.

[SomeDeadMan]

Well. That was a read!

One question though. Don't you guys ever fear that you'll have worked everything out, thus feel totally underwhelmed when actually reading it? Or worse: your highly intricate, totally plausible theories are wrong, and it's just some deus ex machina instead?

[Ygrain]

Well. That was a read!

One question though. Don't you guys ever fear that you'll have worked everything out, thus feel totally underwhelmed when actually reading it? Or worse: your highly intricate, totally plausible theories are wrong, and it's just some deus ex machina instead?

Not at all. The reveal itself is not as important as its impact and incorporation in the story - the journey matters more than the destination. As for the deus ex machina, a good writer has no need to pull these, and GRRM himself said he wouldn't because it would make all the carefully planted foreshadowing invalid and thus a lie, and he is not a liar.

[Jon Weirgaryen]

No, reading it is quite the challenge.

And if a theory proves wrong (and so many already have), it was fun while we were figuring it out.

The "Jon Snow's Possible Targaryen Name" stuff is really futile*. I imagine we will never get to read the answer in the books. And the other option, if asked, GRRM will not answer it until the day Jon Snow's parentage has been made clear as - errrrrm - ice to all the readers and/or show watchers.

Anyway, when you read and re-read, these questions arise and suddenly you find some of them like puzzle pieces in your head, only they don't quite fit. Then you find more of them, and some of them might fit, some others definitely do fit somewhere, and it goes aaaah!

* but like those puzzle pieces, I cannot get rid of the "Neither was he Aemon Targaryen." roaming my little head.

[Ygritte]

Well. That was a read!

One question though. Don't you guys ever fear that you'll have worked everything out, thus feel totally underwhelmed when actually reading it? Or worse: your highly intricate, totally plausible theories are wrong, and it's just some deus ex machina instead?

Nah, I figure even if I predict every single plot point, I won't predict exactly how it will happen, and additionally there'd be some fun in seeing my theories turn out to be true. Or more realistically, I'm not right about every single thing and there will still be some surprises.

[BearQueen87]

Well. That was a read!

One question though. Don't you guys ever fear that you'll have worked everything out, thus feel totally underwhelmed when actually reading it? Or worse: your highly intricate, totally plausible theories are wrong, and it's just some deus ex machina instead?

Nope. Even if the things people say here are 95% true, the other 5% is stuff we can't quite put together. And I really want to know the how/why (Lyanna and the 2 KG's flight from wherever she was to the place where she met Rhaeagar. how did Lyanna and Rhaegar communicate before? How did Elia feel? How did Benjen feel? How did Rhaegar and Lyanna get married--old way, new way, both ways)

[WhiteOwl18]

Well. That was a read!

One question though. Don't you guys ever fear that you'll have worked everything out, thus feel totally underwhelmed when actually reading it? Or worse: your highly intricate, totally plausible theories are wrong, and it's just some deus ex machina instead?

Not at all. I'll bet that there are still little details that we haven't figured out yet. And maybe others that we got wrong. And seeing the way it unfolds will be extremely interesting (How will Jon react to it? How will other people react? How will it affect the story?).

Also, I guarantee you that for every fan that figured it out, there are hundreds of casual readers who didn't. For them, it will be a genuine surprise.

[Emerentiana_Zamora]

Also, I guarantee you that for every fan that figured it out, there are hundreds of casual readers who didn't. For them, it will be a genuine surprise.

Or readers who are told the evidence and don't believe it. Who might burn the books (if they happen to be my brother) if R+L does equal J.

[stateofdissipation]

Well. That was a read!

One question though. Don't you guys ever fear that you'll have worked everything out, thus feel totally underwhelmed when actually reading it? Or worse: your highly intricate, totally plausible theories are wrong, and it's just some deus ex machina instead?

That question seems akin to thanking a priest for the juice and cookies after communion.... oh the humanity...

I wonder if these same people have ever tried to use the same technique starting with the first book to try to figure out what will happen in the second book and so on... If they had, they would have either been underwhelmed or crushed when their theories did not pan out.

If they had tried out that, we would be left with pointing out possibilities instead of intricate plausible theories...

The idea here seems to be to come up with the most specific prediction... You will find love with the second person in line at starbucks on tuesday at 8:23 est----

Psychics and mediums learned long ago that this is the path to being wrong-- You will find love with a stranger--- is close enough

[WhiteOwl18]

Or readers who are told the evidence and don't believe it. Who might burn the books (if they happen to be my brother) if R+L does equal J.

Those exist too. And they will be proved wrong. :)

[Jon Weirgaryen]

Oh, I even know at least one actually very bright and thorough reader who has read the books 5 times and who hasn't got a clue about Jon's parentage.

To whom Sandor certainly is as dead as Ned, and Ned must be Jon's father.