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Barristan was 23 when he was raised to the Kingsguard during the reign of Jaehaerys II, thus in either 260AC.[60][61][62] This gives Barristan the following options:

  • 22 turning 23 in 260AC, placing his birth in 237AC
  • 23 turning 24 in 260AC, placing his birth in 236AC

This leaves the options 236AC and 237AC for Barristan.

[...]

Concluded can be that the options 235AC, 238AC and 239AC are no longer valid.

I think this needs to be changed somehow. It's not clear why Barristan couldn't have joined the Kingsguard in 259, 261 or 262 AC, so this has to be pointed out. And the options 235, 238 and 239 are never mentioned in this calculation, anyway (though I would list them under the first paragraph).

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I think this needs to be changed somehow. It's not clear why Barristan couldn't have joined the Kingsguard in 259, 261 or 262 AC, so this has to be pointed out. And the options 235, 238 and 239 are never mentioned in this calculation, anyway (though I would list them under the first paragraph).

I rewrote it.. It appeared text was missing in this entry on two or three places..

Barristan's year of birth is now "either 236 AC or 237 AC"

 

The text:

 

===Birth===
Barristan was 23 when he was raised to the Kingsguard during the reign of Jaehaerys II, thus in either 259 AC, 260 AC, 261 AC, or262 AC.{{Ref|aGoT|57}}{{Ref|AFOT|Appendix}}{{Ref|aSoS|67}}{{Ref|aDwD|55}} This gives Barristan the following options:
* 22 turning 23 in 259 AC, placing his birth in 236 AC
* 23 turning 24 in 259 AC, placing his birth in 235 AC
* 22 turning 23 in 260 AC, placing his birth in 237 AC
* 23 turning 24 in 260 AC, placing his birth in 236 AC
* 22 turning 23 in 261 AC, placing his birth in 238 AC
* 23 turning 24 in 261 AC, placing his birth in 237 AC
* 22 turning 23 in 262 AC, placing his birth in 239 AC
* 23 turning 24 in 262 AC, placing his birth in 238 AC

This gives Barristan the options of 235 AC to 239 AC

It is known Barristan slew Maelys I Blackfyre before joining the Kingsguard,{{Ref|ASOS|67}} which Barristan is known to have done in 260 AC.{{Ref|TWOIAF| The Targaryen Kings: Jaehaerys II}} Thus, Barristan can't have joined the Kingsguard in 259 AC, eliminating the first two options given above. Therefore, Barristan was born in 236 AC, 237 AC, 238 AC, or 239 AC.


In {{Date|300}}, Barristan thinks to himself it has been 53 years since the tourney at Blackhaven, when he was 10.{{Ref|aSoS|24}}{{Ref|aSoS|67}}{{Ref|aDwD|59}}  This means the tourney at Blackhaven occurred in 247 AC. Being 10 years old in 247 AC, gives the following options:
* 9 turning 10 in 247 AC, placing his birth in 237 AC
* 10 turning 11 in 247 AC, placing his birth in 236 AC

This leaves only the options 236 AC and 237 AC, eliminating 235 AC, 238 AC, and 239 AC.


Barristan is known to be 63 years old in the year 300 AC.{{Ref|aDwD|59}} This leaves two options:
* 62 turning 63 in 300 AC, placing his birth in 237 AC
* 63 turning 64 in 300 AC, placing his birth in 236 AC

Further, Barristan was 61 years old in {{Date|298}} during the Tourney of the Hand. This leaves the following options:
* Either 60 turning 61 in 298 AC, placing his birth in 237 AC
* Either 61 turning 62 in 298 AC, placing his birth in 236 AC

As well, Barristan is known to have been 16 years old in {{Date|253}}.{{Ref|AWOIAF| Barristan Selmy}}{{Ref|ASOS|67}} That gives the following two options:
*Being 15 turning 16 in 253 AC, placing his birth in 237 AC
*Being 16 turning 17 in 253 AC, placing his birth in 236 AC

Each of these entries show that the options of 235 AC, 238 AC and 239 AC are eliminated, leaving only two options.


Barristan was 57 when winning a tourney.{{Ref|aSoS|67}} This tourney took place in 294 AC. Barristan being 57 in 294AC means he was:
* 56 turning 57 in 294 AC, placing his birth in 237 AC
* 57 turning 58 in 294 AC, placing his birth in 236 AC
This gives no further clarification


Barristan, who was 61 years old during the Tourney of the Hand in 298 AC, was also 61 when he was fired from the Kingsguard by Joffrey Baratheon.{{Ref|aSoS|67}} It is unknown in which year this event takes place (either in late 298 AC or early 299 AC):
* 60 turning 61 in 298 AC, placing his birth in 237 AC
* 61 turning 62 in 298 AC, placing his birth in 236 AC
* 61 turning 62 in 299 AC, placing his birth in 237 AC
(Due to being already 61 in {{Date|298}}, Barristan could not have been 60 turning 61 in 299 AC, which is why this option is not available.)

This gives no further specification.


Barristan was named to the Kingsguard at the age of 23 only after killing Maelys I Blackfyre.{{Ref|ASOS|67}}  Barristan killed Maelys during the War of the Ninepenny Kings, in {{Date|260}}, late in the year.<ref>Tywin Lannister returned from the war and began to demand his father's bannermen pay their debts. This led to a fight between House Lannister and House Tarbeck, which escalated until Lord Tytos forced a peace, which was said to have lasted “not quite a year”. In late 261 AC, Tywin Lannister found a way to legally break the peace.</ref>
* If Barristan was born in 236 AC, he would have been 23 turning 24 in 260 AC
* If Barristan was born in 237 AC, he would have been 22 turning 23 in 260 AC

Both options remain.


Thus Barristan Selmy was thus born in either {{Date|236}} or {{Date|237}}. No further specifications can be given.

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Looking at Catelyn’s quote, she herself was at the moment of her memory Sansa’s age, and Lysa was younger than Arya. Catelyn and Lysa are said to be two years apart in age as well often, but the comparison to Sansa and Arya shows that in reality they differ more than 2 years and a few months. So Catelyn and Lysa differ closely to 2,5 years in age. Petyr was "younger still", meaning he was at least 1 year younger than Lysa (otherwise Catelyn would have said they were the same age). So between Catelyn and Petyr seems to be about 3,5 years. This closes in on an age difference of 4 years.

According to this, Petyr also could be two years younger than Lysa, so Catelyn would have been born in 263 AC. Or between Catelyn and Petyr are indeed 3,5 years, and if Petyr was born in the second half of 268 AC, Catelyn would have been born in 265 AC.

 

I think it's possible to give a date for the latest year of birth of Cregan Stark, since he seems to have been of age during the Dance of Dragons.

 

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Cyrenna was the second wife of Walder Frey. Walder's eldest child by his third wife, Hosteen, was born no later than 258AC (see Hosteen Frey). That means that Hosteen was conceived no later than 257AC, and thus that Walder married his third wife no later than 257AC. This means that Cyrenna could have died no later than 257AC.

Hosteen could also have been conceived in 258 AC and born in the same year, so the latest date of death of Cyrenna would be 258 AC.

 

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Daella was married in 80 AC, and gave birth to her first child in 82 AC.[10] That means that in 82 AC, she would have been at least 13 years old, meaning that she was born no later than 69AC. However, Daella is known to have lived at least until the age of 16,[10] and thus was at least 16 years old when she died in 82AC. That means that Daella was born no later than 66AC.

Apparently "of age" has a different meaning when it comes to women:

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Yet his realm was not marked solely by the question of the Great Bastards, or even Aegon's misrule. His marriage to Mariah of Dorne—now Queen of the Seven Kingdoms—had been happy and fruitful, and one of his earliest significant acts after assuming the throne was to begin negotiations with his good-brother, Prince Maron, to unify Dorne under Targaryen rule. Two years of negotiation later, an agreement was reached in which Prince Maron agreed to be betrothed to Daeron's sister, Daenerys, once she was of age. They were wed the following year, and with that marriage, Prince Maron knelt and swore his oaths of fealty before the Iron Throne.

Daenerys was born in 172 AC und thus just 15 years old in 187 AC, despite that she was considered to be of age.

So I guess Daella would have also been considered to have lived to adulthood even if she died at the age of 14 or 15.

 

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Damon is the younger brother of Elyana Vypren, so he is at least one year younger than her. Elyana was born in 264AC the earliest (see Elyana Vypren), meaning that Damon was born in 265AC the earliest.


No indication can be given about Damon´s last possible year of birth. Damon was born in or between 265 AC and 299 AC (since it is certain Damon was already born in 299AC).

Damon Vypren is a knight, thus at least 15 years old.

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Sorry that it took me so long to reply! I've been really busy!

 

On 21-1-2016 at 4:21 PM, The Wondering Wolf said:

According to this, Petyr also could be two years younger than Lysa, so Catelyn would have been born in 263 AC. Or between Catelyn and Petyr are indeed 3,5 years, and if Petyr was born in the second half of 268 AC, Catelyn would have been born in 265 AC.

Hmm.. I'm momentarily wondering whether we can let only one year stand for Catelyn.

There's about 2,5 years between Lysa and Catelyn, and Petyr was at least 1 year younger, placing the difference between him and Catelyn at at least 3,5 years. Petyr was born in 268 AC. We know that.

I tend to believe that, if Petyr had been Bran's age during Catelyn's memory, she would have noted that, due to her comparing ages to her other children. But that's not actually confirmed. Bran, at the time, was 8. And yet, Arya was still 9, though she would soon turn 10.

 

The books don't tell us when LF came to Riverrun. In the show, it is mentioned he was 8 years old, but there's no indication in the books, app, RPG's, SSM's, etc.

 

I'm currently thinking, that it should be stated that he minimum difference between Petyr and Catelyn is 3 years (to get rid of the possible error-marge created by the fact that Lysa and Cat are about 2,5 years apart). Meaning that she was born in 265 AC the latest.

Can we define a minimum for Catelyn?

 

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I think it's possible to give a date for the latest year of birth of Cregan Stark, since he seems to have been of age during the Dance of Dragons.

I will look at that one!

 

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Hosteen could also have been conceived in 258 AC and born in the same year, so the latest date of death of Cyrenna would be 258 AC.

Correct. Will correct, but not now. For the Frey's, that (unfortunately) usually means adjusting multiple entries, and I don't have the time for those atm. It's going on my todo-list!

 

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Apparently "of age" has a different meaning when it comes to women:

Daenerys was born in 172 AC und thus just 15 years old in 187 AC, despite that she was considered to be of age.

So I guess Daella would have also been considered to have lived to adulthood even if she died at the age of 14 or 15

I had asked Ran about Daenerys, and he indeed confirmed that in that context, "of age" did not refer to the age of 16.

If "of age" for women can be an unspecified age at which they are seen as old enough for marriage, I don't think we can take Daenerys's age upon marriage as a reference. Other noble women in Westeros have married at a younger age.

What do you think?

 

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Damon Vypren is a knight, thus at least 15 years old.

Correct! Will adjust.

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On 26.1.2016 at 6:50 PM, Rhaenys_Targaryen said:

Can we define a minimum for Catelyn?

Catelyn was born after the death of Amarei Crakehall who didn't die prior to 264 AC. So Catelyn was born in either 264 or 265 AC. But this means you have to change some of the Frey stuff. Or even a lot. :mellow: 

On 26.1.2016 at 6:50 PM, Rhaenys_Targaryen said:

I had asked Ran about Daenerys, and he indeed confirmed that in that context, "of age" did not refer to the age of 16.

If "of age" for women can be an unspecified age at which they are seen as old enough for marriage, I don't think we can take Daenerys's age upon marriage as a reference. Other noble women in Westeros have married at a younger age.

What do you think?

I wouldn't rely on the of age thing and just state that Daella wasn't younger than 13 at the time of her death.

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45 minutes ago, The Wondering Wolf said:

Catelyn was born after the death of Amarei Crakehall who didn't die prior to 264 AC. So Catelyn was born in either 264 or 265 AC. But this means you have to change some of the Frey stuff. Or even a lot. :mellow: 

Ah yes, Amerei.. For a second, I had forgotten about her!

Amerei's date of death is based on Catelyn's possible years of birth, as she died before Catelyn was born, as well as the birth of her youngest three sons. Merrett was born in 262 AC, we know, and he had two younger siblings, so at least, the years 263 AC and 264 AC are covered.

If Catelyn can have been born in 265 AC, and I agree with you on that, then Amerei's possible year of death changes from 264 AC to either 264 AC or 265 AC. Her youngest two children also go from one possibility to two. Their children, if I'm not mistaken, are all based on the appendices, and thus won't change.

As far as the Frey family tree goes, this would be an easy change.

 

So for Catelyn, it would be that she and Petyr are at least three years apart (the two years between her and Lysa, and the additional year Petyr is younger than Lysa at minimum). From Petyr's 268 AC, that would make Catelyn's latest possible year of birth 265 AC.

Because Amerei died before Catelyn's birth, and gave birth to two children after Merrett (b. 262 AC), she can't have died before 264 AC, meaning Catelyn can't have been born earlier.

Hence, she was born in either 264 AC or 265 AC.

 

For Lysa, this means she was born in either 266 AC, 267 AC or 268 AC. And Edmure will keep 267 AC as his youngest possibility.

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Sansa and Arya are two years apart in age.[72][53][80]However, looking at the moment during the year their namedays take place, it is clear that Arya's nameday falls early in the year, while Sansa's nameday falls at the end of the year. So even though they are born 2 years apart,[72][53][80] they actually differ about 2 years and a few months in age.

Hasn't there been a nameday section at "Years after Aegon's Conquest/Calculations Events"? Would be helpful to link to it in this case.

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Gaemon Palehair died during a poisoning attempt directed at King Aegon III Targaryen and Queen Daenaera Velaryon. [42] Aegon III was introduced to Daenaera in 133 AC, so it can be stated that Gaemon at least lived until 136 AC. As it is both unknown when Aegon and Daenaera got married, and at which point in their marriage the poisoning attempt took place, no further specifications can be given.

Based on this information, it's not really clear why Gaemon at least lived until 136 AC.

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In late 299 AC, Jaime [Frey] has not yet been born. In early 300 AC, Jaime has been born. No specifications can be given, meaning he was born either in late 299 AC, or early 300 AC.

A source is missing. ;) 

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Jocelyn was born at least one year after her brother Boremund. Boremund was born in 51 AC or later (see Boremund Baratheon). That means that Jocelyn was born at least one year later, so in 52 AC or later.

Jocelyn's firstborn child was born in 74 AC (see Rhaenys Targaryen (daughter of Aemon)). Jocelyn would have been at least 13 years old when Rhaenys was born, meaning that Jocelyn was born no later than 61 AC.

No further specifications can be given. Jocelyn was thus born in or between 52 AC and 61 AC.

Jocelyn's mother Alyssa Velaryon was born in 7 AC, so she would have been 54 years old in 61 AC. Might not be impossible, but very unlikely. Maybe you can add a note stating that.

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Larys [Strong] would have been at least one year younger than his older brother Harwin.[9] Harwin was born in 90 AC or before (see Harwin Strong). That means that Larys was born in 91 AC or before. No further specifications can be given.

Somehow this doesn't make sense.

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On 21-2-2016 at 7:25 PM, The Wondering Wolf said:

Based on this information, it's not really clear why Gaemon at least lived until 136 AC.

Typo. On the number-pad on the right side of the keyboard, the six is right above the 3. 

 

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A source is missing. ;) 

Thanks! Same goes for Tywin Frey (son of Raymund) (they are twins, after all :) )

 

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Jocelyn's mother Alyssa Velaryon was born in 7 AC, so she would have been 54 years old in 61 AC. Might not be impossible, but very unlikely. Maybe you can add a note stating that.

Right, will adjust for that. Same for Boremund, of course.

 

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Somehow this doesn't make sense.

Correct... That's an odd mistake. Will delete Larys from the list.

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On 4-3-2016 at 11:10 PM, Nittanian said:

reddit's /r/asoiaf has a discussion about the ages of Daynes here.

the only thing that i find to be troublesome with this is that he seems to think that Arthur has to be a KG already in order to be in Kingslanding, being Rhaegar his oldest friend it makes more sense if Arthur was also a squire together with Rhaegar and Jon Connington. This would make Arthur significantly younger.

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2 hours ago, direpupy said:

the only thing that i find to be troublesome with this is that he seems to think that Arthur has to be a KG already in order to be in Kingslanding, being Rhaegar his oldest friend it makes more sense if Arthur was also a squire together with Rhaegar and Jon Connington. This would make Arthur significantly younger.

Yes, indeed. But also, we don't know when Rhaegar and Connington became squires, and when they became friends (since being squires together doesn't have to mean you immediatley become friends - Jaime and Merrett Frey are a very severe example of that, but in less extreme cases, it might take a while to become friends, even though you're squiring together), so using that to determine Arthur's age is not really exact. 

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The Jon Connington entry has been updated:

 

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Jon is known to be younger than Prince Rhaegar Targaryen,[103] who was born in 259 AC. That places Jon's birth in 260 AC the earliest.

Jon ruled in his own name for several years after his father died.[103] Since Jon ruled until his exiled in 283 AC, he had been ruling in his own right since at least 281 AC, as the use of "years" indicated a minimum of 2 years (a maximum cannot be determined). Indeed, Jon is identified as "Lord" by the Tourney at Harrenhal in 281 AC already.[79] As Jon ruled in his own right, this means that by 281 AC at least, Jon had turned 16, indicating that Jon could not have been born born after 265 AC.

Tywin Lannister was appointed as Hand of the King at the age of 20, and was thereby the youngest man ever to become Hand in the history of the Seven Kingdoms.[6]}[35] This means that Jon was at least 21 years old when he was appointed Hand of the Kind in 282 AC, placing his birth no later than 261 AC.


No further specifications can be given. Jon Connington was thus born in or between 260 AC and 262 AC.

 

 

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