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The Wiki-Timeline Project [Calculations]


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On 20-5-2016 at 0:02 PM, The Wondering Wolf said:

Alright, now I see. :)

Nevertheless, use the rephrased version of the calculation. Much better than the previous version, I think.

 

I've been editing the pages. Most of it is not significant (removing excess interlinking, replacing every   by a ', dixing spelling errors), but there are a few errors that have been removed as well, as well as some rephrasing that, while not changing much, does make the entries a bit better. I'll try to list the important ones here (including a few changes from a few weeks back), but do check out the recent history of the pages to check out the other changes as well, when/if you have the time.

  • The introduction at the top of the page was inconsistent. adjusted the sentences after the end of the bullet-points for consistency.
  • Addition of Arthur Dayne (back in March)
  • The calculation of Balerio Otherys accidentally named him Narha (which is his sister's name)
  • Rephrasing of Devan Seaworth and Edric Storm
  • Rephrasing of Jon Connington
  • Rephrasing of Glendon Ball
  • Removed an unnecessary note from Edmure Tully's entry
  • Removed the "year of death" entry for Gared, as it was an entry applying to Wymar Royce and ranger Will, but not Gared.
  • Added some more references to Jorah Mormont's entry
  • Slight rephrasing in the Larence Snow entry
  • Fixed small error in Myranda Royce's entry
  • Fixed small error in Wylis and Wendel Manderly's entries
  • Some slight rephrasing in the Nymeria Sand entry
  • Addition of Minisa Whent
  • Some rephrasing in the Sansa Stark entry
  • Some rephrasing in the Wallace Waynwood entry

In addition, there were some smaller rephrasings, ect.

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@The Wondering Wolf, @History of Westeros, and @Nittanian, and anyone else who reads this thread and is interested,

 

I'm looking for an opinion on the trustworthiness of the following quotes. History of Westeros, we've discussed this issue before, but I've found two more quotes that might shed more light on this, and I am looking for opinions on this matter.

Regarding Edmure Tully, he's currently listed to have been born in or between 267 AC and 274 AC. However, there might be a specification possible.

Your family has always pissed on me, don't deny it, don't lie, you know it's true. Years ago, I went to your father and suggested a match between his son and my daughter. Why not? I had a daughter in mind, sweet girl, only a few years older than Edmure, but if your brother didn't warm to her, I had others he might have had, young ones, old ones, virgins, widows, whatever he wanted. No, Lord Hoster would not hear of it. Sweet words he gave me, excuses, but what I wanted was to get rid of a daughter.

[...]

"You cannot know that," Edmure insisted. "Frey has wanted me for one of his daughters since the day I was born. He will not let a chance like this slip between those grasping fingers of his. When Lothar brings him our answer, he'll come wheedling back and accept a betrothal . . . and to a daughter of my choosing."

[...]

"All of which will only salt Lord Walder's wounds. It has always rankled him that older houses look down on the Freys as upstarts. This insult is not the first he's borne, to hear him tell it. Jon Arryn was disinclined to foster his grandsons, and my father refused the offer of one of his daughters for Edmure." She inclined her head toward her brother as he rejoined them.

Catelyn's statement appears to be based on Walder's, but Edmure's is based on his personal experience. Thus, can we trust these statements to definitly indicate that Walder was speaking of a daughter (and not, for example, a granddaughter) to marry Edmure? If so, there are only two girls who are close to Edmure's age: Morya (born in either 268 AC or 269 AC) and Tyta (born in either 269 AC or 270 AC). Morya and Tyta are Walder's third and fourth daughter, respectively. Walder's second daughter, Lythene, is too old to have been "only a few years older than Edmure" (as she was born in or between 251 AC and 259 AC). Walder's fifth daughter is Roslin, who is much, much younger than Edmure.

 

If Walder really does mean a daughter (and is not saying daughter while meaning granddaughter), Edmure's range of "possible years of birth" can be shortened, from 267-274 AC to 270-274 AC (being "a few years younger" than the daughter Walder had in mind; Morya is the eldest of the two, and since she was born in 268 AC the earliest, being "a few years older" than Edmure would give them at least an age difference of two years (as 1 year wouldn't count as "a few years"), placing Edmure's new 'eldest option' in 270 AC, shortening the range by three years).

 

What do you guys think? Can I use these?

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Thanks a lot for informing me about the changes.

17 hours ago, Rhaenys_Targaryen said:

What do you guys think? Can I use these?

I would think so. And in the end people can chose on their own if they take these passages for trustworthy or not.

Quote

Daemon is known to be older than Arianne, though not by much.[51] As Arianne Martell was born in 276 AC (see Arianne Martell), Daemon will have been born either the same year, or before, eliminating 275 AC as a possibility.

Has to be 277 AC.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Correction of:

 

Additions to:

 

Newly added:

All are years of birth, except for Bryen Caron.

28 minutes ago, The Wondering Wolf said:

Brienne was born in 280 AC, placing the birth of Lord Caron's younger son in 277 AC. Bryce Caron thus was born in 276 AC the latest.

Thanks!

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On 5/21/2016 at 4:43 PM, Rhaenys_Targaryen said:

@The Wondering Wolf, @History of Westeros, and @Nittanian, and anyone else who reads this thread and is interested,

 

I'm looking for an opinion on the trustworthiness of the following quotes. History of Westeros, we've discussed this issue before, but I've found two more quotes that might shed more light on this, and I am looking for opinions on this matter.

Regarding Edmure Tully, he's currently listed to have been born in or between 267 AC and 274 AC. However, there might be a specification possible.

Your family has always pissed on me, don't deny it, don't lie, you know it's true. Years ago, I went to your father and suggested a match between his son and my daughter. Why not? I had a daughter in mind, sweet girl, only a few years older than Edmure, but if your brother didn't warm to her, I had others he might have had, young ones, old ones, virgins, widows, whatever he wanted. No, Lord Hoster would not hear of it. Sweet words he gave me, excuses, but what I wanted was to get rid of a daughter.

[...]

"You cannot know that," Edmure insisted. "Frey has wanted me for one of his daughters since the day I was born. He will not let a chance like this slip between those grasping fingers of his. When Lothar brings him our answer, he'll come wheedling back and accept a betrothal . . . and to a daughter of my choosing."

[...]

"All of which will only salt Lord Walder's wounds. It has always rankled him that older houses look down on the Freys as upstarts. This insult is not the first he's borne, to hear him tell it. Jon Arryn was disinclined to foster his grandsons, and my father refused the offer of one of his daughters for Edmure." She inclined her head toward her brother as he rejoined them.

Catelyn's statement appears to be based on Walder's, but Edmure's is based on his personal experience. Thus, can we trust these statements to definitly indicate that Walder was speaking of a daughter (and not, for example, a granddaughter) to marry Edmure? If so, there are only two girls who are close to Edmure's age: Morya (born in either 268 AC or 269 AC) and Tyta (born in either 269 AC or 270 AC). Morya and Tyta are Walder's third and fourth daughter, respectively. Walder's second daughter, Lythene, is too old to have been "only a few years older than Edmure" (as she was born in or between 251 AC and 259 AC). Walder's fifth daughter is Roslin, who is much, much younger than Edmure.

 

If Walder really does mean a daughter (and is not saying daughter while meaning granddaughter), Edmure's range of "possible years of birth" can be shortened, from 267-274 AC to 270-274 AC (being "a few years younger" than the daughter Walder had in mind; Morya is the eldest of the two, and since she was born in 268 AC the earliest, being "a few years older" than Edmure would give them at least an age difference of two years (as 1 year wouldn't count as "a few years"), placing Edmure's new 'eldest option' in 270 AC, shortening the range by three years).

 

What do you guys think? Can I use these?

Maybe not, Robb is initially offered a "daughter" as part of Lord Walder's price for the crossing. When Lord Walder makes him apologize to his "girls" for spurning them, several granddaughters are included. 

But looking at the end of this part: 

I had others he might have had, young ones, old ones, virgins, widows, whatever he wanted. No, Lord Hoster would not hear of it. Sweet words he gave me, excuses, but what I wanted was to get rid of a daughter.

Who was the widowed daughter he could've offered to Lord Hoster? 

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3 hours ago, History of Westeros said:

Maybe not, Robb is initially offered a "daughter" as part of Lord Walder's price for the crossing. When Lord Walder makes him apologize to his "girls" for spurning them, several granddaughters are included. 

But looking at the end of this part: 

I had others he might have had, young ones, old ones, virgins, widows, whatever he wanted. No, Lord Hoster would not hear of it. Sweet words he gave me, excuses, but what I wanted was to get rid of a daughter.

Who was the widowed daughter he could've offered to Lord Hoster? 

None of Walder's daughters are widowed, if I saw it correctly in a quick view of the family tree. But I'm not really sure that is what Walder is saying here, either.

The way I interpreted it, is that Walder had a specific girl, a daughter, in mind, but if Holster and/or Edmure did not like her, he had plenty of other girls (daughter and granddaughters) available to choose a betrothed from. Thus, that Walder wanted a daughter to marry Edmure, but if that was not an option, would settle for a betrothal to a grandchild of his as well.

What do you think about the fact that Edmure says "daughter" as well?

You do have a good point about the "daughters" from which Robb can choose and the daughters & granddaughters presented to him when he comes to apologize.

 

If the quotes are still not considered to be conclusive, I'll simply add this as a note at the bottom of the calculation, without changing the outcome of the calculation.

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Quote

Balon was the fourth son of Quellon Greyjoy.[24] Thus, he would have been at least 3 years younger than his eldest sibling, Harlon. Harlon was born no earlier than 253 AC (see Harlon Greyjoy), placing Balon's birth no earlier than 3 years later, in 256 AC.

Since Balon and Donel had different mothers, Balon could have been born in 255 AC, as well.

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8 minutes ago, Rhaenys_Targaryen said:

Ah, yes! Thank you. The same would go for Aeron and Robin then, :) Will adjust both!

Thank you for checking!

You're welcome. :)

Right now I'm thinking about splitting the pages in the German wiki one more time and creating a fifth page because editing gets worse every time I add another character. :rolleyes:

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2 minutes ago, The Wondering Wolf said:

You're welcome. :)

Right now I'm thinking about splitting the pages in the German wiki one more time and creating a fifth page because editing gets worse every time I add another character. :rolleyes:

You mean due to the loading time? I know the issue, though splitting it across four pages loads reasonably well, on this wiki. 

How are the translations going? :)

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On 2.6.2016 at 10:34 PM, Rhaenys_Targaryen said:

The calculations for Donel, Balon, and Robin Greyjoy have thus been corrected.

I think this changes some more dates: Euron (from 257 to 256), Victarion (from 258 to 257), Maron (from 270 to 269), and Rodrik (from 269 to 268).

3 hours ago, Rhaenys_Targaryen said:

You mean due to the loading time? I know the issue, though splitting it across four pages loads reasonably well, on this wiki.

Not just the loading time, but also editing issues. Sometimes my PC hangs while editing one of the pages. With the new division I'm gonna have around 100 entrys per page, I hope this will work a little bit better. :)

On 2.6.2016 at 10:38 PM, Rhaenys_Targaryen said:

How are the translations going? :)

For some letters all entrys are done, but there is still a lot to do. I haven't dared to translate the big entrys like Stannis, Sansa or Petyr Baelish yet. :unsure:

 

I guess this

Quote

Urrigon died at the age of 14, while his brother's were away at war.[96] This war was Robert's Rebellion (282 AC-283 AC), in which House Greyjoy got involved only towards the end of 283 AC.[97]Balon returned from the war in 284 AC,[97] demonstrating that Urrigon died either in 283 AC or 284 AC.

is based on this?

Quote

Lord Quellon had spent most of his long reign avoiding war; Lord Balon began at once preparing for it. For more than gold or glory, Balon Greyjoy lusted for a crown. This dream of crowns has seemed to haunt House Greyjoy throughout its long history. Oft as not, it ends in defeat, despair, and death, as it did for Balon Greyjoy. For five years he prepared, gathering men and longships, and building a great fleet of massive warships with reinforced hulls and iron rams, their decks bristling with scorpions and spitfires. The ships of this Iron Fleet were more galleys than longships, larger than any that the ironmen had built before. (The World of Ice and Fire, The Old Way and the New)

 

 

Quote

Loreza Sand is 6 years old in 300 AC,[38][39]and is mentioned to have turned 7 later on in 300 AC. Being 6 turning 7 in 300 AC means she was born in 293 AC.

Source is missing.

 

Quote

Robin did not live to manhood,[39] and thus died before turning 16. He cannot have been conceived any later than his father left the Iron Islands on his final voyage, in 283 AC.[40] With his last possible moment of conception in 283 AC, his last possible year of birth will have been 284 AC, nine months later.

Quote

Lord Quellon never returned from his last voyage; the Drowned God in his goodness granted him a death at sea. It was Lord Balon who came back, with his brothers Euron and Victarion. When Balon heard what had befallen Urri, he removed three of the maester's fingers with a cook's cleaver and sent his father's Piper wife to sew them back on. Poltices and potions worked as well for the maester as they had for Urrigon. He died raving, and Lord Quellon's third wife followed soon thereafter, as the midwife drew a stillborn daughter from her womb. Aeron had been glad. It had been his axe that sheared off Urri's hand, whilst they danced the finger dance together, as friends and brothers will. (A Feast for Crows, The Prophet)

So when Quellon left the Iron Islands, his third wife was pregnant with a girl.

 

Quote

Wendel's father Wyman was born in 239 AC the earliest. Since Wyman would have been at least 14 years old at the birth of his eldest son, he would have been at least 15 years old at the birth of his youngest son. This would place Wendels birth no earlier than 254 AC.

Needs to be changed to 13 and 14 years.

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10 hours ago, The Wondering Wolf said:

I think this changes some more dates: Euron (from 257 to 256), Victarion (from 258 to 257), Maron (from 270 to 269), and Rodrik (from 269 to 268).

Correct. Thank you!

 

10 hours ago, The Wondering Wolf said:

Not just the loading time, but also editing issues. Sometimes my PC hangs while editing one of the pages. With the new division I'm gonna have around 100 entrys per page, I hope this will work a little bit better. :)

For some letters all entrys are done, but there is still a lot to do. I haven't dared to translate the big entrys like Stannis, Sansa or Petyr Baelish yet. :unsure:

Ah, I see. Hmm.. What will your new division be? (From A to .., etc.) Will it still be possible to interlink the pages under "read in another language", if there are more pages in German than in English? Editing per entry will allow the loading to be much faster than editing the entire page, perhaps that's a solution?

 

Some small additions from today:

  • Gerion Lannister (death entry), rephrased
  • Gulian Swann (essential phrase-correction) 
  • Edmure Tully (as discussed a few days ago, added a note)
  • Big Walder Frey, rephrased.

 

10 hours ago, The Wondering Wolf said:

I guess this

is based on this?

The amount of years, yes. But the interpretation is also based on this count:

But this is not to say that Robert’s reign has been completely untroubled. Six years after he was crowned, Balon Greyjoy unlawfully rose against his king—not for any harm done to him or to his people but merely out of wanton ambition.

Both quotes count the time until the start of Balon's rebellion. If Balon's rebellion (289 AC) started six years after Robert was crowned (283 AC), but only 5 years after Balon returned home and began to prepare for war, the conclusion is that Balon returned home in 284 AC.

 

10 hours ago, The Wondering Wolf said:

Source is missing.

No longer :) Arianne I from The Winds of Winter.

10 hours ago, The Wondering Wolf said:

So when Quellon left the Iron Islands, his third wife was pregnant with a girl.

Right, so Robin was born in 283 AC the latest! Thank you! The entry has been corrected.

 

10 hours ago, The Wondering Wolf said:

Needs to be changed to 13 and 14 years.

Wendel's entry now lists his as having been born in or between 253 AC and 264 AC.

 

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19 minutes ago, Rhaenys_Targaryen said:

Ah, I see. Hmm.. What will your new division be? (From A to .., etc.) Will it still be possible to interlink the pages under "read in another language", if there are more pages in German than in English? Editing per entry will allow the loading to be much faster than editing the entire page, perhaps that's a solution?

Damn, that might be a problem. :unsure: You are right, as long as the length doesn't make editing impossible, I'm gonna keep it this way.

There are two different editors in Wikia, with one you can edit single entrys, with the other you can't. And my PC only allows me to work with the second one. :rolleyes:

 

25 minutes ago, Rhaenys_Targaryen said:

Some small additions from today:

  • Gerion Lannister (death entry), rephrased
  • Gulian Swann (essential phrase-correction) 
  • Edmure Tully (as discussed a few days ago, added a note)
  • Big Walder Frey, rephrased.

Thanks, will check them out.

 

28 minutes ago, Rhaenys_Targaryen said:

The amount of years, yes. But the interpretation is also based on this count:

But this is not to say that Robert’s reign has been completely untroubled. Six years after he was crowned, Balon Greyjoy unlawfully rose against his king—not for any harm done to him or to his people but merely out of wanton ambition.

Both quotes count the time until the start of Balon's rebellion. If Balon's rebellion (289 AC) started six years after Robert was crowned (283 AC), but only 5 years after Balon returned home and began to prepare for war, the conclusion is that Balon returned home in 284 AC.

Alright, I see.

 

I think you can add a calculation for the death of Alys Stackspeer and outsource the information from the entry of Marla Prester. ;)

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5 hours ago, The Wondering Wolf said:

Damn, that might be a problem. :unsure: You are right, as long as the length doesn't make editing impossible, I'm gonna keep it this way.

There are two different editors in Wikia, with one you can edit single entrys, with the other you can't. And my PC only allows me to work with the second one. :rolleyes:

Perhaps you already tried this, but does using a different browser help?

5 hours ago, The Wondering Wolf said:

Thanks, will check them out.

Also check out the new Sumner Crakehall entry.

5 hours ago, The Wondering Wolf said:

I think you can add a calculation for the death of Alys Stackspeer and outsource the information from the entry of Marla Prester. ;)

Done and done!

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On 4.6.2016 at 10:27 PM, Rhaenys_Targaryen said:

Perhaps you already tried this, but does using a different browser help?

Apparently the one I'm using is the best one for editing Wikia. It's not a massive problem though, just gets a little bit annoying from time to time. ;)

Quote

==[[Sumner Crakehall]]==
===Death===
Sumner Crakehall is referred to as "old Sumner Crakehall" or "old Lord Sumner" on several occasions.{{Ref|ASOS|67}}{{Ref|ASOS|Epilogue}}{{Ref|AFFC|33}} He was still alive in {{Date|281}}, when he participated in the campaign against the Kingswood Brotherhood.{{Ref|ASOS|67}}{{Ref|AFFC|Epilogue}}

Maybe you could add a calculation for the campaign against the Kingswood Brotherhood on the calculation page for events and link to it. And the last source is wrong. ;)

 

 

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3 hours ago, The Wondering Wolf said:

Apparently the one I'm using is the best one for editing Wikia. It's not a massive problem though, just gets a little bit annoying from time to time. ;)

Maybe you could add a calculation for the campaign against the Kingswood Brotherhood on the calculation page for events and link to it. And the last source is wrong. ;)

 

 

Argh! ASOS! ASOS! Not AFFC! :blushing:

Thanks for the tip! (That events page still needs a lot of other work, too).

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