What will break Stannis?

[ambi76]

Yup. It will be his own morals that do it in the end. If he is not the rightful king of Westeros, the Ahor Azai, the whatever... then he is a kinslayer, and though his claim to Robert's succession may be rightful, it is also irrelevant next to the true crown and true king.

Seppuku anyone ?

I don't think seppuku (like heroically charging into the Others/dragons) is the only solution. Taking the black could be a nicer (bittersweet?) one. And yeah, if Shireen really gets eaten by a dragon that will be a big break too.

[hodorisfaclessman]

i wonder there is any companies left for Massey to buy

Look at it this way the golden company is 10k strong for that to be even remotely realistic there must be readily available 10k or more to counter them far more say 40- 50k floating around without the GC or so in essos

in mereen theres just under 7k mercs (500 2nd sons, 500 stormcrows, 3000 compnay of cat, 800 long lances and 2000 windblown)

Theres the constant wars for the disputed lands(which if i recall are heating up again) which is a vast vast tract of lands between 3 very rich cities to fund them on top of other threats like dothraki and pirates etc.

The few sellsword companies we know all seem to come in numbers of 500-thousands and we know after dany sacked astopor the yunkai were able to get their hands on 1000 mercs no problem...given the distance between the west of essos where we assume most sellswords are and yunkai thats impressive

It all seems to hint his 20k should be easily enough got esp as the ironbank can outbid pretty much anyone

[jon rhaegar stark]

I'm sure he will find some, but we know a lot of them are already tied up.

WoW sample

We learn that Daenerys now has the Windblown, along with the Second Sons, and the Storm Crows. And of course Aegon has the Golden Company.

and adding unsullied and dothraki to her side then its pretty much entire Essos we have known

he may find but they will not really be upto the mark i think ...considering how the Second sons and stormcrows act when they think they are on the losing side ....think how will other sellswords companies will act ...they will flee at the first light if they sense defeat ...does stannis have to really put his faith in them

and he doesnt know that Saan has abandon him either

[Bryden Tully]

All that really means is the ability to buy sellswords. And with the best sellsword company in the world currently in the Stormlands taking Stannis' shit, and a lot of the other companies being tied up in the battle for Meereen he's going to have slim pickings.

Isn't this a huge myth?

I remember seeing a post about how there's a lot more sellsword companies out there, and that Stannis could easily get his hand on at least 20,000 men. Just because a couple are in Meeren doesn't mean all the sellswords in westero's are gone

And the 20,000 sellswords is no where near too much. The slaver's army around Meereen is not at full size. They even call it out. If they need to, they will get more. Think that just with the slave soldiers that cost only feeding and arming, the salvers have tens of thousands.

There are only about a dozen companies known by name:

Golden Company: 10,000 - Invading Westeros.

Company of the Cat - 3,000 - Under contract with Yunkai.

Windblown - 2,000 - Under contract with Yunkai.

Long Lances - 800 - Under contract with Yunkai.

Second Sons - 514 - Under Contract with Yunkai.

Stormcrows - 500 - Under Contract with Meereen.

Brave Companions - Disbanded.

Bright Banners - Unknown Strength - Unaccounted for.

Gallant Men - Unknown Strength - Unaccounted for.

Iron Shields - Unknown Strength - Unaccounted for.

Maiden's Men - Unknown Strength - Unaccounted for.

Ragged Standard - Unknown Strength - Unaccounted for.

There are also the Holy Hundred, but they are a special case. Other than those companies, there are plenty more.

“Two companies. The Yunkai’i will send twenty against you if they must. And when they march,

they will not march alone. Tolos and Mantarys have agreed to an alliance.” -ADWD

Jon muses that with the Iron Bank, Stannis can hire a dozen companies if he so wished. Disregarding the Golden Company as another special case, the Free Company's size is between 500-800 for an all cavalry company, and 2-3,000 for a company of several elements.

Stannis already hired ~2,000 sellswords from Essos in GoT-CoK. He should know about the available sellswords. And if he feels the need to tell Massey not to spend too much because 20,000 should be enough, it's clear that he expects that (even without the 10,000 of the Golden Company) he could get that amount. Considering that two companies were in Yunaki well before this point, and that Stannis is likely meaning for Massey to hire the ones who are along the Narrow sea, and will actually reach him in months, rather than years, it's clear that Stannis expects to find 20,000 in the Free Cities that are closer to Westeros alone.

[Sullen]

His assessment of Renly was a spot-on, though. And you are ignoring the fact that a major PoV character sees a similarity between Cat and Stannis and finds the "iron but brittle" fitting for Cat.

Noye had not seen Renly since Renly was a young child, and he was pretty much the person that would have been the most threatening to a Lannister regime were he not been conveniently murdered by Stannis.

Donal Noyal was full of shit and didn't know what he was talking about.

[jon rhaegar stark]

Isn't this a huge myth?

I remember seeing a post about how there's a lot more sellsword companies out there, and that Stannis could easily get his hand on at least 20,000 men. Just because a couple are in Meeren doesn't mean all the sellswords in westero's are gone

could he really get 20000 along the narrow sea even with all the companies we know about are not giving 20000 when combained and we practically dont know anything about those companies and their strength ...if the known companies such as Stormcrows and Secondsons and windblown all having 500-2000 ..i dont think these companies can have more than to 500-1000 .....

he can collect individual sellsswords but i dont think that companies alone can provide him 20000...and with money iam sure common people in those cities will become sellswords

[Ygrain]

Noye had not seen Renly since Renly was a young child, and he was pretty much the person that would have been the most threatening to a Lannister regime were he not been conveniently murdered by Stannis.

Donal Noyal was full of shit and didn't know what he was talking about.

And what exactly did Renly excel at, except fancy clothes and easy charm? He is the guy whose best idea how to oppose the Lannisters was to put his lover's sister into his brother's bed, who ran away with his tail between his legs when things began to look tough and who stole his brother's birthright. Wow, what a spine and a strong character. Copper.

Renly was never a threat to anything, the Tyrells who threw their power into his gamble and hoped to become the new Lannisters were.

[sj4iy]

The events of the next book should suck pretty hard for Lord Stannis.

If fAegon takes the Iron Throne, the Targaryen claim will be re-established, and by right of conquest, the Baratheon claim will be undone.

And if Jon is reborn, and is Azor Ahai as many suspect, Stannis is going to have to come to grips with the fact that he isn't, and that he's done some pretty fucked up things chasing a destiny that was never his, and he will likely watch Melisandre defect quickly to Jon's camp.

He will be left with nothing. A rebel Lord without lands, without a claim, and without a destiny.

Those things taken together would be enough to break him, I would think.

.

This is my thought, as well. His weakness has always been his his little brother syndrome...trying to prove he's as good as or better than Robert. And he's done some terrible, terrible things to try to live up to this ideal that he has created in his mind. It will come back to bite him hard in the ass eventually.

[Talleyrand]

His insatiable lust for a good piece of cheese

[Ygrain]

BTW, I love how people shit on Donal Noye when it was him who pointed out to Jon why his attitude to the other recruits was wrong and who left the defence of the Wall in Jon's hands. Both times a wrong estimate, right? Oh... wait...

[Skythe1]

I'm pretty sure it'll have something to do with R'hllor, I'm just not sure what.

Once Mel realises he isn't AAR/TPTWP/anybody important at all, she'll drop him like a stone.

[titanx5]

People are really making a mistake by thinking that all the sellsword companies are unavailable. Bryden Tully posted some of the companies that numbers that remain a mystery and what they are up to at the moment, I think that the Bright Banners are also at Slaver's Bay at the moment. However which sellsword company works for Braavos or stationed near Braavos? None? I dont think so, plus you telling me there are no others by the Disputed Lands?I dont think so, 20 000 sellswords is difficult, but 10 000 would be obtainable.

Just off the topic old Ser Barristan making promises that are not his to make like promising The Windblown Pentos, we will see how long that arrangement lasts.

But back to the topic, what makes him break is possibly the loss of his daughter, plus the loss of Davos and north suddenly abandoning him (which I doubt) the whole AA thing he does really believe anyways.

[Bog Devil of Greywater]

BTW, I love how people shit on Donal Noye when it was him who pointed out to Jon why his attitude to the other recruits was wrong and who left the defence of the Wall in Jon's hands. Both times a wrong estimate, right? Oh... wait...

Donal Noye's perception of Renly is disputed, yet we have the Queen of Thorns saying much the same thing about him. Neither character has proven to be unreliable as a narrator, though Noye seems to skew his opinion far too much toward martial skill. The QoT being particularly brutal in her honesty. But neither thought highly of Renly.

[Ygrain]

Donal Noye's perception of Renly is disputed, yet we have the Queen of Thorns saying much the same thing about him. Neither character has proven to be unreliable as a narrator, though Noye seems to skew his opinion far too much toward martial skill. The QoT being particularly brutal in her honesty. But neither thought highly of Renly.

Yeah, that as well. It seems that Renly's biggest feat was winning the love and loyalty of Loras.

[Sullen]

And what exactly did Renly excel at, except fancy clothes and easy charm? He is the guy whose best idea how to oppose the Lannisters was to put his lover's sister into his brother's bed, who ran away with his tail between his legs when things began to look tough and who stole his brother's birthright. Wow, what a spine and a strong character. Copper.

Renly was never a threat to anything, the Tyrells who threw their power into his gamble and hoped to become the new Lannisters were.

Renly ran away when things started to look tough? He stayed with Robert until his very death, if that makes him a coward, I don't know what it makes Stannis who fled considerably earlier. He only fled after everything was lost and Eddard refused to do the only sensible thing.

How is the plan to marry Marge to Robert a bad thing?

And as far as he (and most everyone else) was concerned, Stannis had no more right to the Throne than him, he was simply dislodging the abusive Lannister-backed regime of Joffrey, like he says, just like Robert did.

As for the Tyrells being "the new Lannisters" that's utter bull, the Tyrells had a good relationship with Renly while the Lannisters and Robert were always somewhat antagonistic, thus a Tyrell-backed regime would have less internal strife, which is what made Robert's reign so terrible to begin with.

And as for never being a threat to anything, tell that to Cat, Tyrion, and Cersei, who are all terrified of him and his army, to the point where Cersei and Tyrion share a genuine moment of shared happiness when they learn Renly has been delayed by Stannis.

Donal Noye's perception of Renly is disputed, yet we have the Queen of Thorns saying much the same thing about him. Neither character has proven to be unreliable as a narrator, though Noye seems to skew his opinion far too much toward martial skill. The QoT being particularly brutal in her honesty. But neither thought highly of Renly.

The Queen of Thorn having a negative opinion of someone isn't exactly something that's unheard of. She thinks lowly of pretty everyone, so I wouldn't consider her opinion proof of Renly's worthlessness.

Yeah, that as well. It seems that Renly's biggest feat was winning the love and loyalty of Loras.

And Mace, who was also said to love him, and Brienne, and Penrose, and all of Stannis's soldiers who decided to turn their cloaks when they saw his ghost on the Blackwater.

[E-Ro]

I'd gladly wear one.

Maybe I could get it personalized with my family name, arms, and a snazzy motto like- "Reading Comprehension".

LOL. The guy that thinks you can "lose" a claim is mocking other peoples reading comprehension? Too funny.

Anyway Stannis has already done more then any other character in the series. When he saved that moron jon from the wildlings he probably indirectly saved the world. HE can die knowing he made a difference, unlike most everyone else.

[David Selig]

His assessment of Renly was a spot-on, though. And you are ignoring the fact that a major PoV character sees a similarity between Cat and Stannis and finds the "iron but brittle" fitting for Cat.

A major PoV character who is terrible at understanding is extremely biased against Cat and most likely did his best to avoid her while he was growing up. She wasn't brittle at all. Unless we consider anyone but psychopaths "brittle". It is a miracle she lasted so long after what she went through.

[TheMysteriousOne]

Personally, I think the only way Stannis could possibly break would be if Mel abandons him after discovering he is not AA. Most of the Queen's Men would pretty much walk away with her.

Plus, Dany is the Slayer of Lies and one of the lies she'll be slaying, IMO, is the fact that Stannis is AA. This doesn't necessarily mean that she will kill him, though.

This is so unfair, Stannis is the only fucking king who try to save the realm meanwhile Dany is dreaming about Daario and Aegon is a kid who try to act like a King but both have more chance of becoming king than Stannis.

Fuck GRRM, why can't Stannis finally get what he deserves?

LOL, really? :bang:

[Davos's Missing Fingers]

I've always thought that Melisandre was using Stannis to get to Jon, whom she believes is AA. The fact that Stannis is now reliant upon Melisandre and she no longer has a need for him is his undoing. When he finally breaks is still up for debate, but I think Melisandre has moved on to her real goal.

[sj4iy]

I've always thought that Melisandre was using Stannis to get to Jon, whom she believes is AA. The fact that Stannis is now reliant upon Melisandre and she no longer has a need for him is his undoing. When he finally breaks is still up for debate, but I think Melisandre has moved on to her real goal.

I see no indication that she thinks of Jon as AAR as of yet. She doesn't understand why she keeps seeing Jon in her fires, but she has most definitely not made the connection because if she had, I doubt she would have kept it to herself.