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The Brightfyre Theory: Addendum


Mithras

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An addition to Part 4;



When the lad emerged from the cabin with Lemore by his side, Griff looked him over carefully from head to heel. The prince wore sword and dagger, black boots polished to a high sheen, a black cloak lined with blood-red silk.



That is the cloak of Mance :)

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How does the existence of Illyrio Blackfyre wash with that House being extinct in the male line?

When we say Illyrio Blackfyre, we mean that he is a descendant of Daemon Blackfyre. His surname is not Blackfyre but we use that for convenience just like there was no surname like Brightflame.

When a House goes extinct in the male line, it means that there is no male heir carrying the surname of that House. For example Harren the Black and all his sons were burned in their towers but we know that House Volmark has the blood of Harren the Black in the female line.

This is one of the reasons why I don’t take Varys as a Blackfyre because though he is a eunuch, as long as he lives, it cannot be said that House Blackfyre went extinct in the male line. Varys and Illyrio pay attention to technical truths.

In short, Illyrio Blackfyre makes it easier than saying that Illyrio is a descendant of Daemon in the female line.

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“There are pleasure houses in Lys and Tyrosh where men would pay handsomely to bed the last Targaryen.”



Thus, Serra’s origin should not be a secret among the upper class of Lys because her blood raised her price to extreme levels.


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“There are pleasure houses in Lys and Tyrosh where men would pay handsomely to bed the last Targaryen.”

I also feel that this implies that there are other Targaryens in some of these pleasure houses, already. I believe that if that is the case, it's possible that the Targaryen sex slave could have been used for breeding-stock to the legitimate line stemming from Aerions son who was passed over. Targaryens never seemed to find any aversion to incest, so trying to breed an heir out of a sister or niece doesn't seem like something that would be below the offspring of a member who was so proud of his Targaryen blood that he thought that drinking wildfire would transform him into a dragon. I think it's possible that the "Brightflame" line got their foot in the door of some Brothel to make sure to be first in line when their new Targaryen flowers would blossom to plant their seed to continue the line before turning them out for the general public, turning the females into whores, and any male would be seen as a threat to the primary line. This might explain why Varys was cut. If this is in fact why Varys was immasculated, perhaps he sought vengeance against the primary "Brightflame" line of Targaryens and went to find Illyrio of Blackfyre descent.

I really like this theory in general.

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An addition to Part 4;

When the lad emerged from the cabin with Lemore by his side, Griff looked him over carefully from head to heel. The prince wore sword and dagger, black boots polished to a high sheen, a black cloak lined with blood-red silk.

That is the cloak of Mance :)

Hmm... you have me rethinking my earlier post. ..
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I think Patchface could be either a Blackfyre or Brightflame decendant, since he seem to have prophetic dreams, like the Targaryens.

I think Patchface is a vessel for some higher power (possibly the George). Dude was dead and came back to life... like Davos, Beric & Catelyn.
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I also feel that this implies that there are other Targaryens in some of these pleasure houses, already. I believe that if that is the case, it's possible that the Targaryen sex slave could have been used for breeding-stock to the legitimate line stemming from Aerions son who was passed over. Targaryens never seemed to find any aversion to incest, so trying to breed an heir out of a sister or niece doesn't seem like something that would be below the offspring of a member who was so proud of his Targaryen blood that he thought that drinking wildfire would transform him into a dragon. I think it's possible that the "Brightflame" line got their foot in the door of some Brothel to make sure to be first in line when their new Targaryen flowers would blossom to plant their seed to continue the line before turning them out for the general public, turning the females into whores, and any male would be seen as a threat to the primary line. This might explain why Varys was cut. If this is in fact why Varys was immasculated, perhaps he sought vengeance against the primary "Brightflame" line of Targaryens and went to find Illyrio of Blackfyre descent.

I really like this theory in general.

I agree with this. High profile courtesans and whores with noble blood are very valuable (Lynesse Hightower, Johanna Swann, Black Pearls, even Arya could have become one). I think the by-blows of Aerion from his exile in Lys should be trained and bred carefully to keep their value as a precious holding. If the Black Pearls can continue for several generations, why not the bastards of Aerion in Lys do the same and keep their Targaryen blood as pure as possible? Perhaps Aerys was looking for them in Lys.

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This contrast does not seem to fit the pattern...

I ought to have a banner sewn, she thought as she led her tattered band up along Astapor's meandering river. She closed her eyes to imagine how it would look: all flowing black silk, and on it the red three-headed dragon of Targaryen, breathing golden flames. A banner such as Rhaegar might have borne.

Daenerys III, Storm

"They will do well enough, I suppose," he told Haldon. "The camp is only three miles south." The Shy Maid would have gotten them there more quickly, but he preferred to keep Harry Strickland ignorant of where he and the prince had been. Nor did he relish the prospect of splashing through the shallows to climb some muddy riverbank. That sort of entrance might serve for a sellsword and his son, but not for a great lord and his prince. When the lad emerged from the cabin with Lemore by his side, Griff looked him over carefully from head to heel. The prince wore sword and dagger, black boots polished to a high sheen, a black cloak lined with blood-red silk. With his hair washed and cut and freshly dyed a deep, dark blue, his eyes looked blue as well. At his throat he wore three huge square-cut rubies on a chain of black iron, a gift from Magister Illyrio. Red and black. Dragon colors. That was good. "You look a proper prince," he told the boy. "Your father would be proud if he could see you."

Jon Connington I, Dance
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Prince Aerion made a sudden dive for his morningstar. Dunk kicked him in the back and knocked him facedown, then grabbed hold of one of his legs and dragged him across the field. By the time he reached the viewing stand where Lord Ashford sat, the Bright Prince was brown as a privy.



Men rushed onto the field to where the Fiddler lay unmoving, facedown in a puddle. When they helped him to his feet, he was mud from head to heel.


The Brown Dragon!” someone shouted. Laughter rippled through the yard as the dawn washed over Whitewalls.



Serra Brightflame: My ancestor was once trampled by that giant sucker and covered in mud from head to heel.


Illyrio Blackfyre: One of my forbearers was trampled because of that giant sucker and covered in mud too.


Serra and Illyrio: :love:


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Prince Aerion made a sudden dive for his morningstar. Dunk kicked him in the back and knocked him facedown, then grabbed hold of one of his legs and dragged him across the field. By the time he reached the viewing stand where Lord Ashford sat, the Bright Prince was brown as a privy.

Men rushed onto the field to where the Fiddler lay unmoving, facedown in a puddle. When they helped him to his feet, he was mud from head to heel.

The Brown Dragon!” someone shouted. Laughter rippled through the yard as the dawn washed over Whitewalls.

Serra Brightflame: My ancestor was once trampled by that giant sucker and covered in mud from head to heel.

Illyrio Blackfyre: One of my forbearers was trampled because of that giant sucker and covered in mud too.

Serra and Illyrio: :love:

I suppose there have been stranger love stories...lol. Nice

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  • 1 month later...

The Bright Prince, Aerion Targaryen, he was a Second Son.



“My lord does have one prize to offer,” Haldon Halfmaester pointed out. “Prince Aegon’s hand. A marriage alliance, to bring some great House to our banners.”


A bride for our bright prince.



Lol. A great find for the Brightfyre Theory from ADwD.


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The Bright Prince, Aerion Targaryen, he was a Second Son.

My lord does have one prize to offer, Haldon Halfmaester pointed out. Prince Aegons hand. A marriage alliance, to bring some great House to our banners.

A bride for our bright prince.

Lol. A great find for the Brightfyre Theory from ADwD.

Very, very nice...

"As the Bright Prince is not? Raymun laughed. Dont look so anxious, Ser Duncan, theres none here but us. It is no secret that Aerion is a bad piece of work. Thank the gods that he is well down in the order of succession.

...

Prince Aerion made a sudden dive for his morningstar. Dunk kicked him in the back and knocked him facedown, then grabbed hold of one of his legs and dragged him across the field. By the time he reached the viewing stand where Lord Ashford sat, the Bright Prince was brown as a privy. Dunk hauled him onto his feet and rattled him, shaking some of the mud onto Lord Ashford and the fair maid. Tell him!

The Hedge Knight
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Great thread. I believe the Aegon is a Blackfyre, and I'd actually like him to be one. This thread makes me wonder why people can't believe it.

There are several reasons why the Classical Blackfyre Theory is not sufficient for some.

First of all Aerion and his infant son, whose claim was passed over by the Great Council of 233 in favor of Egg, predate the mention of Blackfyres in the main series. And Aerion was the main antagonist in the first D&E novella. So, he is older than Blackfyres storywise.

Second, book Illyrio is described remarkably similar to Aegon the Unworthy. That is why we like to take Illyrio as the Blackfyre side of the equation (descended from a female Blackfyre, hence the end of the Blackfyres in the male line). This goes well with the parallel from the Sworn Sword where the Blackfyre Loyalist and Lady Webber (whose sigil is a spider, a nod to Varys the Spider) married to end the conflict between them.

We also like to interpret the bright dragon and the dark dragon from Moqorro’s vision as Varys and Illyrio, respectively. According to that interpretation, both of them should be dragons and there are subtle evidences showing that they have Valyrian blood; that Varys is a descendant of Aerion Brightflame and Illyrio is a descendant of Daemon Blackfyre.

In short, this theory accepts majority of the evidences used by the Classical Blackfyre Theory and tries to answer more questions by bringing more evidences.

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The eunuch touched his neck and gaped at the blood on his fingers. “I have always abhorred the sight of my own blood.”

Also this quote you provided indicates Varys' Targyaren-ish roots. Since he is from Lys, him being a "Brightflame" makes more sence than a him being a Blackfyre.

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There are several reasons why the Classical Blackfyre Theory is not sufficient for some.

First of all Aerion and his infant son, whose claim was passed over by the Great Council of 233 in favor of Egg, predate the mention of Blackfyres in the main series. And Aerion was the main antagonist in the first D&E novella. So, he is older than Blackfyres storywise.

Second, book Illyrio is described remarkably similar to Aegon the Unworthy. That is why we like to take Illyrio as the Blackfyre side of the equation (descended from a female Blackfyre, hence the end of the Blackfyres in the male line). This goes well with the parallel from the Sworn Sword where the Blackfyre Loyalist and Lady Webber (whose sigil is a spider, a nod to Varys the Spider) married to end the conflict between them.

We also like to interpret the bright dragon and the dark dragon from Moqorros vision as Varys and Illyrio, respectively. According to that interpretation, both of them should be dragons and there are subtle evidences showing that they have Valyrian blood; that Varys is a descendant of Aerion Brightflame and Illyrio is a descendant of Daemon Blackfyre.

In short, this theory accepts majority of the evidences used by the Classical Blackfyre Theory and tries to answer more questions by bringing more evidences.

While I subscribe to the Brightfyre theory, I disagree that Vsrys and Illyrio are Moqorro's bright and dark dragons, respectively.

Here's the quote...

"Dragons old and young, true and false, bright and dark. And you. A small man with a big shadow, snarling in the midst of it all."

Tyrion VIII, Dance

I think the bit about Tyrion is critical. Tyrion reminds me of the deuteragonist of a classical play. The deuteragonist would bounce between the protagonist, Daenerys in this second Dance, and the antagonist, Aegon.

Old & young are House Targaryen & House Blackfyre, true & false are Daenerys Daughter of Aerys & Aegon son of Rhaegar, and bright & dark are the red dragon & the black dragon.

We know Varys has blood of the dragon since he seems to know all the secrets of Maegor's holdfast.

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Varys and Serra are probably Brightfyres as you have pointed out,Illyrio is a descendant from the female line of House Blackfyre so his mother might have been an aunt/niece/daughter of Maelys and his father an ally in the war of the Ninepenny Kings.I m kinda new in the forums but shouldn t Aerion s son be a king since Aerion was older than Aegon and if the Dornish laws come into place Daena shouldn be queen so Aegon might have more claim than Daenerys and Jon,right?


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