The Brightfyre Theory: Addendum

[Lost Melnibonean]

Varys and Serra are probably Brightfyres as you have pointed out,Illyrio is a descendant from the female line of House Blackfyre so his mother might have been an aunt/niece/daughter of Maelys and his father an ally in the war of the Ninepenny Kings.I m kinda new in the forums but shouldn t Aerion s son be a king since Aerion was older than Aegon and if the Dornish laws come into place Daena shouldn be queen so Aegon might have more claim than Daenerys and Jon,right?

Dornish law would likely not come into play here. Aerion's son absolutely was dispossessed of his birthright. We have yet learn exactly why and what, if any, were the consequences. We should rxpect some resolution to this either in the realization of the Brightfyre theory or some other resolution in the Tales of Dunk & Egg.

[Mithras]

Also this quote you provided indicates Varys' Targyaren-ish roots. Since he is from Lys, him being a "Brightflame" makes more sence than a him being a Blackfyre.

Yes, that quote was discussed in the first thread. Aerys and his line were the blood of Varys (if he is a descendant of Aerion) and he should have beeing abhorring their sights given that he should have been the rightful king instead of them.

[Endymion I Targaryen]

Great work!I always wondered how Illyrio knew about the fate of house Blackfyre?And why GC immediately joined Aegon?Can Varys and Serra be descendants of Shiera Seastar except Aerion?She could have gone to Lys too.

[Mithras]

Great work!I always wondered how Illyrio knew about the fate of house Blackfyre?And why GC immediately joined Aegon?Can Varys and Serra be descendants of Shiera Seastar except Aerion?She could have gone to Lys too.

yolkboy has a theory that Mel is the daughter of Shiera and Bloodraven here. And here is their podcast. I am perfectly sold to this theory.

They also claim that after Bloodraven fell from grace (when Aerys I died and Maekar, who hated him, succeeded Aerys I), it became hard for Shiera to live in KL, or in Westeros in general. So, she went to Essos but at some point, she was attacked and Mel was captured by the slavers. A red temple bought her and trained her as a temple prostitute.

So, I find it unlikely that Shiera made other children.

[Lost Melnibonean]

Great work!I always wondered how Illyrio knew about the fate of house Blackfyre?And why GC immediately joined Aegon?Can Varys and Serra be descendants of Shiera Seastar except Aerion?She could have gone to Lys too.

I had a great back and forth with Lord Martin here...

http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/111884-varyss-backstory-what-are-the-readers-expected-to-believe/

Perhaps, just perhaps, Varys and Serra are not bother and sister but more distantly related. Perhaps Serra, possibly like Melissandre, descends from Brynden Rivers and Shiera Seastar...

[John Hulboy]

Great thread. I believe the Aegon is a Blackfyre, and I'd actually like him to be one. This thread makes me wonder why people can't believe it.

I could not have said it better . Great work Paper Weaver !!

[Daemon Blackfyre IV]

Alright i came in thinking all along that Serra was a Blackfyre !

My theory for this was always that she had to be because Illyrio who is known for being a greedy man was kicked out of the Prince of Pentos Palace and barred forever. A guy who wan't riches why ever risk this on a pillow house whore was always my question up until now and the answer was always that he knew she was a Blackfyre and seeked more fame.

A funny side story here is i play a lot of the GOT Crusader Kings 2 MOD and most of the time i do a Blackfyre rebellion and have Daemon II join forces with Aerion weird coincidence I love that game its a lot of fun for those reasons.

Anyway thanks to this awesome thread i now have this picture floating around in my head:

Aerys want's to continue the Targaryen's pure bloodline, he knows that Aerion's son went across the Narrow Sea and had his own children. I believe this is why he sent Steffon Baratheon looking for a bride, although not just any bride he was looking for the long lost Targaryen children. What he found after seaching was a bald Targ child slave with tattoo's all over him known as Patchface. Patchface could have been the son of Aerion's brother Daeron the drunkard's feeble witted daughter lol.

Illyrio's mother most likely Maelys Blackfyre's sister had enough of the war after her brother's death and maybe her husbands and takes her son away. Illyrio during that time as a child probably acquired his swordsmanship from the Golden Company. Illyrio meets Varys they scheme their way to the top becoming the best of friends. Im thinking maybe they always planned to avenge their claims to the Iron Throne one day but before that the plan to reunite Varys with his long lost sister Serra. They eventually find her and save her from slavery then as the old story goes Illyrio falls in love with his best friends sister.

Aerion had a son who was obviously a Targaryen so his children are Targaryen meaning Serra is most likely Serra Targaryen. Illyrio is no longer a Blackfyre by name so he then plots with varys to unite families and take their claim. The reason the Golden Company is working for Aegon i probably because the older members know who Illyrio is and he has probably proved it by showing Blackfyre to Harry Strickland which he got from his mother.

Fantastic thread guys love it thank you very much

[oursisthefury69]

I cant imagine who'd have the patience and time to read through all of the OPs, but a much simpler and stronger point for the possible joining of Aerion Brightflames line would be Faegons eyes being noted as a brighter purple than Rhaegars and also easily blending with his blue haired Young Griff persona, making them seemingly a more violet shade of purple, much like Aerion

[J. Stargaryen]

The Bright Prince, Aerion Targaryen, he was a Second Son.

“My lord does have one prize to offer,” Haldon Halfmaester pointed out. “Prince Aegon’s hand. A marriage alliance, to bring some great House to our banners.”

A bride for our bright prince.

Lol. A great find for the Brightfyre Theory from ADwD.

Nice catch!

[John Doe]

Alright i came in thinking all along that Serra was a Blackfyre !

My theory for this was always that she had to be because Illyrio who is known for being a greedy man was kicked out of the Prince of Pentos Palace and barred forever. A guy who wan't riches why ever risk this on a pillow house whore was always my question up until now and the answer was always that he knew she was a Blackfyre and seeked more fame.

A funny side story here is i play a lot of the GOT Crusader Kings 2 MOD and most of the time i do a Blackfyre rebellion and have Daemon II join forces with Aerion weird coincidence I love that game its a lot of fun for those reasons.

Anyway thanks to this awesome thread i now have this picture floating around in my head:

Aerys want's to continue the Targaryen's pure bloodline, he knows that Aerion's son went across the Narrow Sea and had his own children. I believe this is why he sent Steffon Baratheon looking for a bride, although not just any bride he was looking for the long lost Targaryen children. What he found after seaching was a bald Targ child slave with tattoo's all over him known as Patchface. Patchface could have been the son of Aerion's brother Daeron the drunkard's feeble witted daughter lol.

Illyrio's mother most likely Maelys Blackfyre's sister had enough of the war after her brother's death and maybe her husbands and takes her son away. Illyrio during that time as a child probably acquired his swordsmanship from the Golden Company. Illyrio meets Varys they scheme their way to the top becoming the best of friends. Im thinking maybe they always planned to avenge their claims to the Iron Throne one day but before that the plan to reunite Varys with his long lost sister Serra. They eventually find her and save her from slavery then as the old story goes Illyrio falls in love with his best friends sister.

Aerion had a son who was obviously a Targaryen so his children are Targaryen meaning Serra is most likely Serra Targaryen. Illyrio is no longer a Blackfyre by name so he then plots with varys to unite families and take their claim. The reason the Golden Company is working for Aegon i probably because the older members know who Illyrio is and he has probably proved it by showing Blackfyre to Harry Strickland which he got from his mother.

Fantastic thread guys love it thank you very much

:thumbsup:

[Benandante]

I also feel that this implies that there are other Targaryens in some of these pleasure houses, already. I believe that if that is the case, it's possible that the Targaryen sex slave could have been used for breeding-stock to the legitimate line stemming from Aerions son who was passed over. Targaryens never seemed to find any aversion to incest, so trying to breed an heir out of a sister or niece doesn't seem like something that would be below the offspring of a member who was so proud of his Targaryen blood that he thought that drinking wildfire would transform him into a dragon. I think it's possible that the "Brightflame" line got their foot in the door of some Brothel to make sure to be first in line when their new Targaryen flowers would blossom to plant their seed to continue the line before turning them out for the general public, turning the females into whores, and any male would be seen as a threat to the primary line. This might explain why Varys was cut. If this is in fact why Varys was immasculated, perhaps he sought vengeance against the primary "Brightflame" line of Targaryens and went to find Illyrio of Blackfyre descent.

I really like this theory in general.

Extremely good extrapolation. I'm going to run with this in a second

Paper Waver, I enjoy this theory immensely. It was especially satisfying for me to read your explanation of the Blackfyre Museum, something I could not puzzle out on my own. I take it you've already tied the chamber Varys leads Tyrion through under the Red Keep, 6 Torches and a Dragon's Head with Fire in its mouth?

I also noticed a theme with "six" as an important number and cataloged all of the appearances. In addition to the Blackfyre aspect, six comes up very frequently in connection with Harrenhal (like, six is reiterated with Harrenhal constantly), with the Eyrie (six giant winches, the Eyrie is six hundred feet above Sky), and with the six direwolf pups.

--

In their demeanor and behavior, Viserys and Aerion are essentially interchangeable. Both are short-tempered, utterly without empathy, self-obsessed, cruel, violent, and entirely out-of-touch with their own importance.

And this seems to be a theme throughout the novels, that certain characters are reiterations of the others, either in a different social/political context or at a different stage of life. We also learn quickly not to trust the labels the narration provides Jon is immediately put forward as an example of outcast/illegitimate son, but in actual effect Jon lives better and suffers fewer consequences for "illegitimacy" than "legitimate" sons Theon and Tyrion do. ("All Dwarves are Bastards").

Aerion and Viserys are somewhat different situations, but also somewhat similar: both are Exile Princes and both bring about their own destruction through careless consumption of fluids. Would Viserys pimp out his own sister? Isn't that effectively what he did? How Viserys sold Dany to Drogo v. what you're putting forward with Aerion is different only in degree; in character it is an identical gesture. They are reiterations of one another; if this were a song they are the same motif.

The obvious theme of Dany (and less obviously of Illyrio/fAegon) is being The Last of something ancient and important. (the Stark children each have reason to feel this way as well). As Jon's obvious theme is Outcast. But in effect he is not much of an outcast, even if he feels like one (raised among Ned's sons - it was weird when Robert came to town and Jon couldn't sit at the table, seems to be the extent of his bastard-suffering). Since Jon and Dany are probably parallel characters, then we should figure that Dany is not actually The Last of whatever she seems to be the last of, just as Jon is not actually an Outcast to the same degree Theon, for example is.

(also of course, both Jon and Theon have some sort of legitimate case for inheritance of Winterfell, in Theon's case by conquest)

In fact, given that Jon and Dany seem to be Ice/Fire parallels, and that Jon may not be a bastard, we should perhaps switch their associations: Jon is the Last, and Dany is the Bastard.

Lys

This is an interesting name for a city. Many of the Free Cities have numeric associations (Pentos = 5, Qohor = 4, Tyrosh = 3, Norvos = 9) but I can find no such correlate for Lys. Lys is known primarily for two things, I think: Pleasure Houses and Alchemists. Alchemists in this world make Wildfire. Wildfire killed Aerion.

My first interpretation of Lys was based on its similarity to Lysa. Keep in mind that Lysa is the Lady of the Vale, and her castle is beneath a waterfall called Alyssa's Tears, and that she murdered her husband with the Tears of Lys. Lysa is also heavily associated with Infertility, another major theme we find especially in the Riverlands (e.g. House Frey). Harrenhal = Barrenhal, but also = H[Arryn]hal. Further, she poisoned her husband at the order of a man who she believed up until the very end of her life loved her, Petyr [bael]ish, Lord of H[Arryn]hal. Petyr lied, Jon died, Lysa cried with an empty inside.

(Petyr is a continuation of the Bael theme, the underdog who wins the heart of a high lord's daughter)

How do you pronounce Lys? I had always figured like List without the T. But perhaps it is perhaps Lies. Jon Arryn and Domeric Bolton poisoned by the Tears of Lies.

Where was Dany raised? Not Braavos. The actual location of her childhood home is irrelevant for now; what is important is that her conception of her history is factually inaccurate. Dany was raised on an Isle of Lies. (Someone made an elaborate case that Stannis, and not a storm, destroyed the Targaryen fleet - does any other character refer to the Storm? If not, this is good proof it never happened)

Doreah probably figures in here, but I remember little about the character. Like Dany, she would go from Lys to the Dothraki Sea.

What is the opposite of Lies? Who is from Lies? Varys. Vera (=Serra?). Veritas.

I cannot make this final connection yet (if you'd like, I can show you the dubious reasoning), but Trogdor, your post has me convinced the situation you've outlined in Lys is that of Craster reflected through a dark mirror. Aerion's setup in Lys, with its brothels and widlfire, is the Fire factions answer to the monstrosity that is Craster's keep. Craster has that weird connection with the Starks - he knows Jon looks like one, his name is an anagram, he's not really a wildling, etc. Craster gives his sons to the Others, while the Brightflames castrate the unwanted sons of their prostituted daughters.

Thanks for giving me so much to think about!

[Rhaegal Targaryen]

“Shadow?” Davos felt his flesh prickling. “A shadow is a thing of darkness.”
“You are more ignorant than a child, ser knight. There are no shadows in the dark. Shadows are the servants of light, the children of fire. The brightest flame casts the darkest shadows.”I think this could be a hint.

- ACoK, Davos II

[Sword of the Morgan]

Really nice job. I do think Aegon is a Blackfyre, though I think perhaps Jon is the "true" dragon and Dany is the "young."

[Rhaegal Targaryen]

Really nice job. I do think Aegon is a Blackfyre, though I think perhaps Jon is the "true" dragon and Dany is the "young."

More like the opposite since it's stated many times that Jon's hero is Dareon the Young such as him while Dany is the only Dragon who has proven herself in terms of her heritage.

[Trogdor Targaryen]

When are we going to get parts 2, 3 and 5?

[Sanset]

I think the tapestry has to be simple so every reader can understand it, especially for those who read the books on paper. If the clues are so hard to find, even with the e-book (searching keywords), it would be too cryptic and impossible to figure it out, at least the main plot has to be comprehensible.

I think Aerion Brightflame has to have a purpose so he's not reduced to a plot device evil guy messing things up for the good guys to do something and look good doing it, thats boring stuff (not GRRM style). The antagonism between Egg and Aerion is a legend. We readers have seen it since very early in 'The Hedge Knight'.

Prince Aerion paid them no mind. "Impudent little wretch," he said to Egg, spitting a mouthful of blood at the boy's feet. "What happened to your hair?"
"I cut it off, brother," said Egg. "I didn't want to look like you."

(The Hedge Knight)

Just a little piece of evidence that is not cryptic at all.

So, if Varys is an offspring of Aerion's line (is not too hard to see that Varys is up to something with the dragons), he would have the motives to go against Rhaegar and Dany and this would explain why we readers have been discussing endlessly why if Varys is a Targaryen loyalist he plotted against Rhaegar and Dany. (Thats why I was sold to the 'Varys is a Blackfyre Theory' so easily, because Varys would be a dragon but not on Rhaegar/Dannys side). Anyway, 'Varys is a Brightflame Offspring Theory' seems to work better because that way Varys is a Targaryen loyalist, but he doesn't like Aegon Vs line (Rh&Dany), that would make sense. At the same time, that would explain the connection with Doran, who is a descendant of Daenerys Targaryen (Aegon IVs trueborn daughter) and Maron Martell. The true Fire and Blood. (I don't think Brynden Rivers would agree, though).

Another brushstroke: It seems scheming Doran sent plain Quentyn with the Yronwood heir basically to die with Dany in the other side of the world. (Varys and Illyrio did the same with Viserys and Dany) Like a chess game he set one of his (lost) pieces to weaken his opponent, though Doran had a better move with the Arianne-fAegon (and Varys) alliance. After all Quentyn was behaving like an Yronwood pawn, the boy was already lost in Dorans mind (I guess). Being ADwD the fifth book is easier to see how doomed Quentyn was due GRRM style, that weird mission smelt fishy. So, this clue works well with the simple picture principle.

Only fAegon is left to analyze in the simple picture, but there is a lot of evidence that portraits him as a Blackfyre, so there is no point to go on with that right now. The Blackfyre rebellions are common knowledge for readers. Another round of old feud Bloodraven vs Bittersteel is easy to figure out.

The Doran and first Daenerys part I think is the most difficult to see, but it is very explicit in the books when Doran tells the story of the Water Gardens. Anyway, I guess it's possible to say that it was there for the printed books readers. And Doran's line: 'Vengeance Justice Fire and blood' is iconic. Of course, I thought at that time he meant Dany, not First Daenerys! My point is, even for people that don't read theories it will be comprehensible sooner or later. Because I remember when I read in ADwD about the Water Gardens and the other Daenerys, I though, Why another Dany? I knew there was something, I didn't know what to make of it.

I'm not saying that is easy to put all this together (actually I haven't, I've been reading other people's theories). What I mean is that if a person reads the seven books on paper will finally have the possibility to tie things together and not be lost in too many and too cryptic riddles. I like complicated theories (it's interesting), but I tend to think that they're not going to work because of that. I think it has to be simple, so common readers get it and it has to be a little difficult so it's entertaining to figure it out, but not impossible to handle.

Overall, I agree with mainly parts of the OP theory, but I really think the simple picture is the one that's going to work well. The lots of little details and clues are ok for fans reading the books tirelessly. I love all those details, so I really enjoy threads like this one.

Edited to correct spelling and the title of the 'The Hedge Knight', I mixed up the tales. :rolleyes:

[Lost Melnibonean]

"How fares our lad?" asked Illyrio as the chests were being secured. Tyrion counted six, oaken chests with iron hasps. Duck shifted them easily enough, hoisting them on one shoulder.

Tyrion III, Dance

Saw this and thought of the Black Dragon Museum...

[Mithras]

Tyrion III, Dance

Saw this and thought of the Black Dragon Museum...

Yep. I had added that at the end of the Black Dragon Museum.

Legacy of the Black Dragon

“How fares our lad?” asked Illyrio as the chests were being secured. Tyrion counted six oaken chests with iron hasps. Duck shifted them easily enough, hoisting them on one shoulder.

Illyrio sent six chests and one of them had Blackfyre within. This is the symbolic legacy of the past six Blackfyre Rebellions. In a way, 7^th Blackfyre Pretender carries the legacy of his predecessors with him.

TWOIAF confirmed that

There were 5 Blackfyre Rebellions but in fact, there were 6 Blackfyre Pretenders. Aenys Blackfyre came to the KL to press his claim during the Great Council of 233 but he was captured and beheaded. If Daemon II's rebellion counts as a Blackfyre Rebellion, the trial of Aenys should also be counted.

[In A Coat of Gold]

Great work!I always wondered how Illyrio knew about the fate of house Blackfyre?And why GC immediately joined Aegon?Can Varys and Serra be descendants of Shiera Seastar except Aerion?She could have gone to Lys too.

It's pretty well known that Ser Barristan killed Maelys who was the last of the Blackfyre line on the stepstones.

[Brightstar_]

I'm interested in the part about cherry red representing the presence of some sort of lie or deception.

Perhaps these 3 instances are just purely coincidental, as there is already a whole thread on "Lies and Arbor gold" ; about how the presence of Arbor gold is supposed to signify exactly the same thing you now claim "Cherry Red" does.

I don't think GRRM would make 2 symbolic uses of colour/wine to represent deceit.