Catelyn's venomous impact on Blackfish

[Modelex]

Third book. He wants to name Jon and Catelyn doesn't want him to. He says tough, it's his decision. The chapter ends with him having his bannermen sign off on his choice, and then saying that after the wedding (heh) they'll be heading back north.

This is another thing. That woman wanted to name some random as Robb's heir over Jon, and likens him to Theon yet again. Did Jon piss in her porridge? How much baseless hatred can you have for someone?

I think Catelyn should have had the nickname "Red Viper"

[willofDorne]

Because Jon snow is a fatalistically dark kid with a possible death wish.

1. Favorite color is black.

2. Named his dog Ghost.

3. Hero is the Young Dragon, someone who died at 18.

I'm sure that's more than enough given the period, to scare anyone. But just listen to Catelyn's performance on the show (where actors have sometimes been given info by GRRM himself) She pronounces clearly to Jon, "I. Want. You. To. Leave" And it sounds exactly like she's talking to a ghost. I honestly get chills when I hear it. She thinks he could be the death of one of her kids, probably Robb.

[TallTyrion]

Because Jon snow is a fatalistically dark kid with a possible death wish.

1. Favorite color is black.

2. Named his dog Ghost.

3. Hero is the Young Dragon, someone who died at 18.

I'm sure that's more than enough given the period, to scare anyone. But just listen to Catelyn's performance on the show (where actors have sometimes been given info by GRRM himself) She pronounces clearly to Jon, "I. Want. You. To. Leave" And it sounds exactly like she's talking to a Ghost. I honestly get chills when I hear it. She thinks he could be the death of one of her kids, probably Robb.

None of those are reasons anyone would fear a kid. Who cares if his favourite colour is black? He named him Ghost because he's white and makes no noise, and I'm sure a lot of young boys think the first king to conquer Dorne is a bad ass.

[JonCon's Red Beard]

Jon's all the way at the Wall dealing with his own shyt, what could he possibly do to betray his family from that far away? Everybody else has fecked them over what could Jon possibly do at this point to betray the Starks?

How could the BF know this? The Tullys and Starks have been BETRAYED by everybody they trusted. They have reasons to mistrust people after the Red Wedding.

And the Blackfish is hearing this from a woman whose husband's bastard lived in their home, there is no biased view there or paranoia at work about her children's inheritance. Because Cat was talking from a non biased view and experience with Jon.

Like I said all Tullys need to shut up about Jon Snow.

The Tullys don't know Jon except that he's a bastard, the bastard son of a man who married Cat and took him to live with her and their kids. That's all they know. They don't know what kind of man Jon is. Their logic is very simple: all bastards are treacherous, Jon is a bastard, hence, Jon is treacherous.

[Modelex]

She met Jon and correctly realized he is a traitorous loser, duh. Was that not obvious?

This is hilarious. Catelyn is the one releasing high profile prisoners for nothing while Jon is working with Stannis to clean up her and her son's mess but Jon is the traitor. Haha

[Fat Mac]

This is hilarious. Catelyn is the one releasing high profile prisoners for nothing while Jon is working with Stannis to clean up her and her son's mess but Jon is the traitor. Haha

I'm sorry, but what exactly was Jon planning to do to help clean up Catelyn and Robb's "mess"?

Oh that's right, abandoning his post to travel 500 miles through a snowstorm against a larger force because someone taunted him in a letter.

[Ramsay Gimp]

Is there no end to the vile treachery of that viper, Catelyn Stark? I need to start my thread about how she actually warged into Jaime and pushed Bran out the window because of her Munchausen by Proxy Syndrome...

[Boarsbane]

Is there no end to the vile treachery of that viper, Catelyn Stark? I need to start my thread about how she actually warged into Jaime and pushed Bran out the window because of her Munchausen by Proxy Syndrome...

That was nothing compared to when she smashed Aegon's head against the wall and raped Elia

[Modelex]

I'm sorry, but what exactly was Jon planning to do to help clean up Catelyn and Robb's "mess"?

Oh that's right, abandoning his post to travel 500 miles through a snowstorm against a larger force because someone taunted him in a letter.

He's the one who fixed the relations between the Starks and Karstarks, told Stannis where to find 3000 men to attack Winterfell and directed him to Deepwood instead of Ramsay's trap

But his last chapter invalidates this I guess

[The Wolves]

How could the BF know this? The Tullys and Starks have been BETRAYED by everybody they trusted. They have reasons to mistrust people after the Red Wedding.

The Tullys don't know Jon except that he's a bastard, the bastard son of a man who married Cat and took him to live with her and their kids. That's all they know. They don't know what kind of man Jon is. Their logic is very simple: all bastards are treacherous, Jon is a bastard, hence, Jon is treacherous.

But what could Jon do even if he was to betray them?

They are already scattered dead and seats taken, wtf could Jon do to betray them at the Wall?

He's never heard Robb talk bad about his Jon, I doubt the Northernmen had anything to say about him. Everything the Blackfish has heard is from his niece who has a irrational view of Jon.

And I don't know why the Blackfish or Jaime would bring Jon up, they both sounded stupid and like I said the Tullys and Lannisters should shut the eff up about Jon and worry about the messes they got themselves in.

[~DarkHorse~]

I am new to the forums, I am scared to even ask this, but i am really curious:

Why is there so much hate for Jon?

I understand that some may find him boring, but some people have a real distaste for him, maybe I am missing something...?

Several reasons I have noticed-

They hate that he is more important than their favourite characters. He is potentially linked to the name of the series- song of ice (Stark) and fire (Targaryen). The song of the Prince that was promised.

They want to rebel against the 'Chosen One' (AA reborn, Prince that was promised, Bastard to King) theories. R+L=J also starts to get grating after awhile.

According to some he is a Mary Sue (ASoIaF version of Luke Skywalker, Harry Potter etc,) and he is not complex (grey enough) for them.

Some people don't like the Wall/ NW storyline which is Jon's POV. They find the political stuff more interesting.

Everyone has different tastes in characters- some like Sansa, some like Ramsay...some don't like Jon, some don't like Catelyn. He just does not appeal to them.

[Fat Mac]

Several reasons I have noticed-

They hate that he is more important than their favourite characters. He is potentially linked to the name of the series- song of ice (Stark) and fire (Targaryen). The song of the Prince that was promised.

They want to rebel against the 'Chosen One' (AA reborn, Prince that was promised, Bastard to King) theories. R+L=J also starts to get grating after awhile.

According to some he is a Mary Sue (ASoIaF version of Luke Skywalker, Harry Potter etc,) and he is not complex (grey enough) for them.

Some people don't like the Wall/ NW storyline which is Jon's POV. They find the political stuff more interesting.

Everyone has different tastes in characters- some like Sansa, some like Ramsay...some don't like Jon, some don't like Catelyn. He just does not appeal to them.

I'd say its a mix of this, but also the fact that a lot of his fans on this board already treat their theories concerning him like they are fact.

As likely as it is, R+L=J is not a fact yet people. It's fine to speculate based upon it, but don't forget it's still a theory.

And no, he is not confirmed AA, and I would even question it's likelihood.

[jon rhaegar stark]

I actually think the Blackfish doth protest too much here. The Blackfish, being the closest thing Robb had to a Hand, almost certainly knew that Robb named Jon as his heir, even if he wasn't present for the actual will-signing. As such, it's in his interest to feign a disconnect with and distrust of Jon. If people think that Robb's bannermen intend to crown Jon or rally behind him, that gives them motivation to attack Jon or try to kill him. The Blackfish putting on a show for Jaime's benefit means that the Lannisters won't consider Jon to be in league with the Blackfish or anyone else, and will for the time being leave him alone.

i dont think Robb and Blackfish would have been discussed about heir when he left because all those discussions about naming an heir started when Robb hears about Balon's death and his brothers fighting for the claim among themselves ...so i dont see them actually talked about it when they were in Riverrun

i like your view on Blackfish putting on a show if he knows jon is the heir ....but i would like to think Robb sends word to blackfish once he had made the will and sends a copy to him

and coming to the op i think Cat's fear of jon is mainly due to the history of wars in Westros due to the bastards of Aegon ...and personally hate him because like she says seeing jon she comes to remember that Ned had slept with another women which shames her

i never liked Cat treatment to Jon ...ever since how quick and ruthlessly she dismissed the talk about jon being stayed at winterfell and happy about jont sent NW but i can understand where her dislike comes from

[Trigger Warning]

But what could Jon do even if he was to betray them?

They are already scattered dead and seats taken, wtf could Jon do to betray them at the Wall?

He's never heard Robb talk bad about his Jon, I doubt the Northernmen had anything to say about him. Everything the Blackfish has heard is from his niece who has a irrational view of Jon.

And I don't know why the Blackfish or Jaime would bring Jon up, they both sounded stupid and like I said the Tullys and Lannisters should shut the eff up about Jon and worry about the messes they got themselves in.

Become a Lannister backed Lord Commander.

Assuming this isn't misdirection on Brynden's part, the bastard that came from Ned dishonouring his niece becoming Lord Commander as the Lannisters are mopping up is a bit suspect.

[Witch]

Several reasons I have noticed-

They hate that he is more important than their favourite characters. He is potentially linked to the name of the series- song of ice (Stark) and fire (Targaryen). The song of the Prince that was promised.

They want to rebel against the 'Chosen One' (AA reborn, Prince that was promised, Bastard to King) theories. R+L=J also starts to get grating after awhile.

According to some he is a Mary Sue (ASoIaF version of Luke Skywalker, Harry Potter etc,) and he is not complex (grey enough) for them.

Some people don't like the Wall/ NW storyline which is Jon's POV. They find the political stuff more interesting.

Everyone has different tastes in characters- some like Sansa, some like Ramsay...some don't like Jon, some don't like Catelyn. He just does not appeal to them.

Also his unbearable hardcore fans.

[The Wolves]

Become a Lannister backed Lord Commander.

Assuming this isn't misdirection on Brynden's part, the bastard that came from Ned dishonouring his niece becoming Lord Commander as the Lannisters are mopping up is a bit suspect.

I don't know how. Why would the Lannisters pay attention to Jon before he became LC?

Sorry, I just don't get it.

[Trigger Warning]

I don't know how. Why would the Lannisters pay attention to Jon before he became LC?

Sorry, I just don't get it.

They wouldn't but Brynden doesn't have to know the reasons.

He sees the bastard that was forced on his niece becoming the Lord Commander at a young age as the Lannisters are mopping up the war.

If he has a distrust of him through Catelyn, it's not a stretch for him to imagine the Lannister hand at work and dismiss him.

[LordBloodraven]

I am new to the forums, I am scared to even ask this, but i am really curious:

Why is there so much hate for Jon?

I understand that some may find him boring, but some people have a real distaste for him, maybe I am missing something...?

Some people just hate the fact that some other like Jon. But there are many other reasons (him being too cliche, Mary Suish, one-dimensional and at the wall among others). But I think the hate is more due to the Jon hype. And Catelyn Stark's disapproval

[Malik Ambar]

After the ward raised with your own children for years betrays you and murders your two sons you tend to Cersei a little I guess

[Princess Sand Snake]

Also his unbearable hardcore fans.

Ahh ok. This all makes sense. I have only read the entire series once, so I thought I may have missed something about him in his or another POV.

Ya I did notice there are some very serious Jon, Stannis and Dany fan's on this site. I can see how that can rub people the wrong way or make some more defensive.

Thanks for the feedback guys!