Why do The Iron Islands so desperately want independence?

[Damp Hair - The Prophet]

One doesn't need to be clever for all that it's all rather obvious. Why wouldn't they want to be free.?

[Fire Eater]

The Iron Islands want independence due to cultural and religious differences for a start with the South worshiping the Seven and idealizing knighthood and chivalry while the Ironborn follow the Drowned God and idealizing reaving which is the opposite of chivalry. They would owe no taxes or fealty to anyone else. As for economic reasons, being independent allows them to raid the rest of Westeros for food, gold and thralls to do the manual labor such as farming and mining (for free I might add). Thralls have the added benefit of leaving more Ironborn hands free to wield swords rather than hoes. Plunder is more appealing than actual labor.

Eh, no. That quote basically supports everything I said:

- The Ironborn need land, this is because they're pretty much barely able to avoid starvation, with concurrent catstrophic mortality rates among children (when the ruling House looses 50% of it's children young, imagine how the lower classes are doing).

Actually no, that isn't stated or implied in the series. The Ironborn can still obtain food by trade. Quellon's sons died from greyscale and a few in the cradle which was not a result of malnutrition.

- Aegon was the one who put the Ironborn in this dire position by taking away all means for them to support themselves (both taking the conquered lands AND outlawing reaving).

The Ironborn still had lands with Harlaw being able to support itself, and the most of the captains were all traders as well as pirates so they could trade for food.

[aryagonnakill#2]

Because they don't understand economics.

[RainGhost]

For similar reasons to the north I would imagine (except without the murdered lords). They have a different religion to the Iron Throne and a different way of thinking. Also, did anyone ever hear of a Greyjoy or other IB in the Red Keep actually helping to rule the Seven Kingdoms? If they don't have a say in how the Seven Kingdoms are ruled, why would they want to be a part of it?

[oopeed]

Because they're your usual school bully; they pretend to be very bad ass and salvage, but they only prey on those who can't defend themselves and they hold grudges after being humiliated by their superiors; either the dragons, wolves or the stags.

They know the Lions are no match for them and the North is left alone, so they attacked by the back.

[Damp Hair - The Prophet]

Kneelers don't know what real freedom is. Why even ask the question when you're incapable of comprehending the answer?

Besides the Ironborn & the "Wildlings,"(& slight exception for Dorne) the rest of Westeros is a bunch of MOOKS.

Every man of the Isles is worth 12 from the mainland. They are not bullies, rather, for 300 years they've been ganged up on by a confederation of lickspittles w/ 10+ times their numbers.

Freedom is Kingsmoot electing your own leader, not following an inbred psycho 13 year old b/c his "dad" was king.

Freedom is a boat beneath your feet, the wind in your hair, endless sky and water around you, pointing your prow wherever you wish.

Freedom is claiming what others are too weak or undeserving to hold onto (when Hound or Arya etc. did it it was ok, don't be hypocrites).

[Jasta11]

Well, they are ruled by another culture, that alone warrants independence for most people.

Plus, there's the whole thing about being able to reave and rape to their heart's content without a big bad King stopping them from looting villages and carrying off people as pseudo-slaves.

[Ingelheim]

Kneelers don't know what real freedom is. Why even ask the question when you're incapable of comprehending the answer?

Besides the Ironborn & the "Wildlings,"(& slight exception for Dorne) the rest of Westeros is a bunch of MOOKS.

Every man of the Isles is worth 12 from the mainland. They are not bullies, rather, for 300 years they've been ganged up on by a confederation of lickspittles w/ 10+ times their numbers.

Freedom is Kingsmoot electing your own leader, not following an inbred psycho 13 year old b/c his "dad" was king.

Freedom is a boat beneath your feet, the wind in your hair, endless sky and water around you, pointing your prow wherever you wish.

Freedom is claiming what others are too weak or undeserving to hold onto (when Hound or Arya etc. did it it was ok, don't be hypocrites).

Try the trolling harder next time.

[Lord Hanna]

Gee, I wonder. Let me see:

- The people of the iron islands are living in abject misery, with about 50% child mortality rates, short lifespans and general terrible living conditions

- The reason for this is the oppressive regime imposed on them by Aegon, where he not only took by far the most fertile part of their kingdom, but also outlawed their main remaining source of wealth without bothering to think of replacing it.

- By this time, the only alternative to a short, miserable life was before Aegon, i.e. when the Ironborn were independent

- This comes on top of having a different culture (and no, the Old Way is not the end-all-be-all of that) and religion from the greenlanders

It should come as no surprise then, that they would want to return to that state, rather than live short, miserable lives trying to eke out a living by fishing, mining iron or trying to farm their craggy islands.

Yeah, i'm sure all the slaves they had, felt super great about the IB's rule of the Riverlands.

Ironborn deserved to be conquered. They felt a tiny bit of what the slaves they had felt for years, and can't handle it.

[Lord Reaver]

Actually no, that isn't stated or implied in the series. The Ironborn can still obtain food by trade.

I never said it was impossible to obtain food. Clearly, though, what they can get is barely enough, as demonstrated by Theon's reminiscing:

"The islands are stern and stony places, scant of comfort and bleak of prospect. Death is never far here, and life is mean and meager. Men spend their nights drinking ale and arguing over whose lot is worse, the fisherfolk who fight the sea or the farmers who try and scratch a crop from the poor thin soil. If truth be told, the miners have it worse than either, breaking their backs down in the dark, and for what? Iron, lead, tin, those are our treasures. Small wonder the ironmen of old turned to raiding."

"No longer may we ride the wind with fire and sword, taking what we want. Now we scratch in the ground and toss lines in the sea like other men, and count ourselves lucky if we have salt cod and porridge enough to get us through a winter." (Theon I ACOK)

Quellon's sons died from greyscale and a few in the cradle which was not a result of malnutrition.

Harlon died from greyscale. The other two died as infants. While it's not explicitly said that they starved to death, Aeron informs us that this is the usual way of the Iron Islands:

"Nine sons had been born from the loins of Quellon Greyjoy, but only four had lived to manhood. That was the way of this cold world, where men fished the sea and dug in the ground and died, whilst women brought forth short-lived children from beds of blood and pain."

(The Prophet, AFFC I)

The Ironborn still had lands with Harlaw being able to support itself, and the most of the captains were all traders as well as pirates so they could trade for food.

Again, barely. Thing is, as Theon points out, what they have to trade isn't all that hot as trade items. Fact is, the Ironborn are literally existing on the subsistence limit, working their asses off (yes, that one is for all you "We do not Sow" parrots) just to put enough food on the table not to starve.

[Jon's Queen Consort]

Because they were not like the rest of Westeros either when it comes to religion or at their culture. They had every right to try gain their independence. However they had no right to raid and attack the mailanders because they wanted more. Thus the crown had any right to put an end on their *rebellion* when it came to Balon's rebellion. Alas Robert was too kind to left them alive.

[LordStoneheart]

Because they were not like the rest of Westeros either when it comes to religion or at their culture. They had every right to try gain their independence. However they had no right to raid and attack the mailanders because they wanted more. Thus the crown had any right to put an end on their *rebellion* when it came to Balon's rebellion. Alas Robert was too kind to left them alive.

Yes, if they want their independence, good for them. It's completely understandable. What's not is that their culture makes them think they also have the right to reave and rape as they please.

[RavenKing23]

Doesn't everybody want to be free to rape and pillage?

[James Arryn]

Full dental.

[Colonel Green]

- The reason for this is the oppressive regime imposed on them by Aegon, where he not only took by far the most fertile part of their kingdom, but also outlawed their main remaining source of wealth without bothering to think of replacing it.

- By this time, the only alternative to a short, miserable life was before Aegon, i.e. when the Ironborn were independent

The Ironborn could easily have used their considerable skill at seamanship to become a major commercial trading power, which would have been a source of wealth and avoided conflicts with the Iron Throne.

[Foibles]

The Ironborn could easily have used their considerable skill at seamanship to become a major commercial trading power, which would have been a source of wealth and avoided conflicts with the Iron Throne.

But then they wouldn't be the extreme Westeros version of vikings. You know, the ones that didn't trade, hire themselves out as mercenaries, farm or fish, founded cities like Dublin, and so on.

That's what the IB ultimately are: a caricature of vikings.

[Lion of the West]

Because they're your usual school bully; they pretend to be very bad ass and salvage, but they only prey on those who can't defend themselves and they hold grudges after being humiliated by their superiors; either the dragons, wolves or the stags.

They know the Lions are no match for them and the North is left alone, so they attacked by the back.

Eh, that isn't really true and I think that you are kind of contradicting yourself here.

For the first the Ironborn have shown that they are ready to tango with just about anyone and have managed to make long-term conquests as well, in the case of the Riverlands for example, where they drove out the Stags to take the land for their own. Don't sound much like cowardly bullies to me.

And if they only prey on those who can't defend themselves, why Balon pick on the Starks since you claim its the Lions who are no match for them why the Wolves would be their superiors? By that logic wouldn't Balon have gone for the West instead?

[The Dragons Hand]

Same as the wildlings, no ones rules but their own, greener lands throw conquest.

[Darksnider05]

Same as the wildlings, no ones rules but their own, greener lands throw conquest.

Not the same at all and they'll follow other peoples rules. Their not a nation or a single faction their refugee's escaping monsters.

The big thing holding them together is the single goal of escape.

[IRON BANK]

The Iron Islanders seem to want independence but lack the resources IMHO. So in order to attempt they Reave. IMHO aleways thought they should try to establish strong trade routes and seek out other lands. If they focused more on trade I feel they would have been more successfull.