Why do The Iron Islands so desperately want independence?

[Jon's Queen Consort]

snip

One question: Have you read Dunk & Egg?

[The Mother of The Others]

1. it sounds better than not wanting independence

[Lord Hanna]

Ah yes. of course, my ''agenda''. You caught us mate, anyone who doesn't agree with you is a secret agent of the NSA- the North Secret Agency. Dude, you are the source of endless unintentional comedy.

What's funny is his screen name is an IB thing, his picture too, yet YOU have an agenda....

If anybody has an agenda, it's the super fan-boy of the IB.

[Fire and Beer]

No, because like the North, they have a real strong sense of nationalism. Even stronger actually. The difference is that they're are looked down upon because their culture includes slaverly and raiding.

i agree, and also the North is much stronger and much more vast then the Iron Islands. While the Ironbourne just seem like a bunch of savages and barbarians from Westerosi POV. And well they're not exactly smart are they?(as a whole i mean) They only know brute force but ain't got a drop of strategic cunning. Smh. but anyways i fucks with the North heavily :cheers: :bowdown: team stark :drunk:

sidenote: if youre gonna be a savage..at least be a smart savage. this is the reason why i hate Cersei (off topic)----if you're gonna be this cunt villain, be a smart cunt villain. at least people would despise yet respect that. but dumb cunt villains? nope, they gots to go.

[Frey Pie]

They're looked down upon by both the fanbase and by the people in the book. I don't like them, but their independence reasons really aren't that different from the North.

Yeah, they look down on greenlanders, but the other cultures in the Seven Kingdoms also looks down on each other. The Northerners looks down on everbody from the south. Southerners look down on the Northerners. Reachmen and Stormlanders still hate Dornishmen. Dornishmen hate them. Everybody hates the Ironborn.

Think you summed up the cultural system of Westeros perfectly

[Bright Blue Eyes]

You misremember. It was Greyjoy declaring independence, Renly's death, Kingslanding. There's roughly two months between Greyjoy deciding to go to war on the North and Renly dieing.

Here's a link to the timeline thread: http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/84563-most-precise-asoiaf-timeline-in-existence/

In that case, the timeline needs to be revised:

...although Archmaester benedict insisted that there had never been a war of five kings, since Renly Baratheon had been slain before Balon Greyjoiy had crowned himself.

Feast, prologue.

[Frey Pie]

In that case, the timeline needs to be revised:

...although Archmaester benedict insisted that there had never been a war of five kings, since Renly Baratheon had been slain before Balon Greyjoiy had crowned himself.

Feast, prologue.

Think you may have stumbled on something here.

It has always been widely known/thought that Balon crowned himself before Renly died

Whether this is all of us being wrong or George getting his timeline wrong I don't know...

[The Mother of The Others]

There was still "a" conflict that included a handful of kings, even if they didn't all overlap. Like, say an hourly employee takes 5 breaks during a single shift. They'll still get in trouble even if they try the defense of "I didn't take them all at the same time!" All that matters to HR is that 5 freakin breaks were taken over the course of that day's war (business).

[Marcus Agrippa]

In that case, the timeline needs to be revised:

...although Archmaester benedict insisted that there had never been a war of five kings, since Renly Baratheon had been slain before Balon Greyjoiy had crowned himself.

Feast, prologue.

Thats what I thought! I swore I read that Balon declared after Renly died! I suppose it doesn't matter,

They would be as unable to hold on to the Westerlands, as they were to hold anything in the North (well they actually still hold Torrhen Square). Whoever sit on that ugly chair in King's Landing would ride against the Ironborn as soon as his position is secured. Balon knew it He knew the Redwyne fleet and the Royal fleet would be with the southern king (he had no idea all the miseries the Royal fleet would suffer through). Tywin, Stannis or Renly. No matter really. The king would ride against him.That's why he sailed North, because he knew Moat Cailin gave him a chance (and of ourse most of the western coast of the North was undefended and the Ironborn really like to raid undefended places). And he knew the Southerners might not care about the North.

Again, the campaign was doomed no matter which way Balon went. He did not have the men to hold anything. And his men lacked the will to actually conquer, they only wanted to raid.

Allying with the north still would have been better. Still I get your point. Balon really had the least amount of resources. Really he should have had allied with the south and ask for land in the north. The south couldn't let the riverlands go.

[Fire Eater]

What part of "try and scratch a crop" is it that confuses you, exactly ? Counting yourself lucky if you have enough food through winter doesn't sound like living on the edge of starvation to you ?

The Iron Isles have lived through many winters without reaving obviously. Trying to scratch out a crop doesn't mean they don't get any crops. They can also still fish during the winter, and the North has worse winters.

If you cannot understand how securing enough food for a mother to breastfeed impacts infant mortality rates, I am sorry, but I can't help you.

Except do you really think a highborn mother would be lacking in food? Do you have a record of Iron Isles infant mortality rates compared to the mainlands as a result of malnutrition?

Again, you are arguing directly against the published material. Apparently you think you know better than the author himself :bang:

The material doesn't state that the Iron Isles have a food problem. Difficulty farming doesn't make it impossible to get a crop in. Trade also is a factor. Also, you are engaging in ad hominem, and with your disrescpectful tone, you make it harder for me to take you seriously.

No need to be condescending. Be mature and respectful, or don't post at all.

[Talleyrand]

Cause they have a culture that doesn't lend itself to making friends and both them and the mainlanders hate each other and neither side has made any real attempt at merging cultures

[devilish]

They are foreigners. They worship a different god and they have different ways. Their lands lack resources so they have to steal them from someone else. Hence why they can't be part of Westeros since they can't steal from their own 'brothers'.

The Iron islands needed a new mentality, someone capable to think out of the box. Both Westerlands and the North had become too strong for them and make full use of alliances, something Balon never believed in. If I was lord of the iron islands I would seek peace with Westeros, use alliances to bring capable people to train my armies and bring business and then colonize/terrorize areas which are outside Westeros. A well trained and organized army backed by a strong fleet can find take cities like Meereen or Yunkai by storm pushing it to either negotiate a wealthy ransom to leave the land or else even capturing it giving the Iron islands access to its incredible wealth and providing it with a foot step to a whole new world.

Once the Iron islands coffers are overflowing with money its only a matter of time before the big families would take notice and try to seal a pact with them through marriage. That would provide them with more soldiers, more resources and therefore with more chance of expanding their colonial empire in slaver's bay