Small questions v. 10085

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

Thank you thank you...

do we have anybody other than ned and mirri using the term?

Yes. There's reference to women bringing forth children in "beds of blood and pain" in one of Aeron's chapters. So again, a direct and specific reference to childbirth.

ETA: It's pretty easy to guess what it is you're actually fishing for, and the answer is no, the phrase "bed of blood" (or a variation on that phrase, like "bloody bed" or "beds of blood") is not used in any context other than childbirth specifically.

[Ser Leftwich]

"That was the way of this cold world, where men fished the sea and dug in the ground and died, whilst women brought forth short-lived children from beds of blood and pain."
- AFfC p. 21

[stateofdissipation]

"That was the way of this cold world, where men fished the sea and dug in the ground and died, whilst women brought forth short-lived children from beds of blood and pain."

- AFfC p. 21

Thanks..

[Jon Weirgaryen]

Longish introduction to a short question:

I just want to make sure you guys get the point, they were never really working for Cersei, they were spies/plants from Baelish.

There's never been a doubt about that.

(After ASoS 68 Sansa VI, that is.)

In theory, someone so close to the centre of power might feel corrupted to change side for their own good. But when it is Cersei...

Aww, I wish you posted the end of that quote, its one of my favorites of the entire series, LF tries so hard to stay clean while eating the orange, but fails. Sansa uses a spoon :)

There it is:

"When the Imp sent off her guards, the queen had Ser Lancel hire sellswords for her. Lancel found her the Kettleblacks, which delighted your little lord husband, since the lads were in his pay through his man Bronn." He chuckled. "But it was me who told Oswell to get his sons to King's Landing when I learned that Bronn was looking for swords. Three hidden daggers, Alayne, now perfectly placed."

"So one of the Kettleblacks put the poison in Joff 's cup?" Ser Osmund had been near the king all night, she remembered.

"Did I say that?" Lord Petyr cut the blood orange in two with his dagger and offered half to Sansa. "The lads are far too treacherous to be part of any such scheme . . . and Osmund has become especially unreliable since he joined the Kingsguard. That white cloak does things to a man, I find. Even a man like him." He tilted his chin back and squeezed the blood orange, so the juice ran down into his mouth. "I love the juice but I loathe the sticky fingers," he complained, wiping his hands. "Clean hands, Sansa. Whatever you do, make certain your hands are clean."

Sansa spooned up some juice from her own orange. "But if it wasn't the Kettleblacks and it wasn't Ser Dontos . . . you weren't even in the city, and it couldn't have been Tyrion . . . "

"No more guesses, sweetling?"

She shook her head. "I don't . . . "

Petyr smiled. "I will wager you that at some point during the evening someone told you that your hair net was crooked and straightened it for you."

ASoS 68 Sansa VI

There we go. It has been said before that it probably was no kettleblack who put the poison in the cup, most likely one Tyrell woman or the other, but who is still a mystery. And Sansa was not into the plot. Not that I deny her the ability to play her part well, but simply because it was not necessary to have her involved knowingly. Showtime:

"You do look quite exquisite, child," Lady Olenna Tyrell told Sansa when she tottered up to them in a cloth-of-gold gown that must have weighed more than she did. "The wind has been at your hair, though." The little old woman reached up and fussed at the loose strands, tucking them back into place and straightening Sansa's hair net. "I was very sorry to hear about your losses," she said as she tugged and fiddled. "Your brother was a terrible traitor, I know, but if we start killing men at weddings they'll be even more frightened of marriage than they are presently. There, that's better."

ASoS 60 Tyrion VIII

(funny colouring by me)

What I must have missed is the obvious, when and where do Olenna and Petyr plotted this together. They met when Petyr proposed Joffrey to marry Margaery while the Wot5K was on.

The plot must have happened off page, or hasn't it?

Are there any beforehand clues, or foreshadowing?

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

here we go. It has been said before that it probably was no kettleblack who put the poison in the cup, most likely one Tyrell woman or the other, but who is still a mystery. And Sansa was not into the plot. Not that I deny her the ability to play her part well, but simply because it was not necessary to have her involved knowingly. Showtime:

ASoS 60 Tyrion VIII

(funny colouring by me)

What I must have missed is the obvious, when and where do Olenna and Petyr plotted this together. They met when Petyr proposed Joffrey to marry Margaery while the Wot5K was on.

The plot must have happened off page, or hasn't it?

Are there any beforehand clues, or foreshadowing?

The app confirmed it was Olenna who put the poison in the cup. I'd say that Margaery will defibitly have known about it, Alerie is still a question mark.

LF and Olenna could only have plotted anything together when they were in the same place. So the basics of the plan will have been made at Bitterbridge, the rest (if there was anything left to discuss) will have been in KL.

I can't think of any clues beforehand. There's only the remark about Tywins face growing purple as if he had been poisoned, which I think might have been the hint that Joff, whose face also turned purple, hadn't simply choked, but had truly been poisoned.

I know it is firmly established shortly after the wedding that it was indeed poison, but if anyone remembered the Tywin hint, they'd know instantly.

[Jon Weirgaryen]

There seem to be purple faces all over ASOIAF, even in Dunk and Egg, but they are curiously missing from ASoS except for dyed faces.

...until it happens to Janos Slynt in ASoS 69 Jon IX and ASoS 79 Jon XII.

Joffrey's face turns red in ASoS 60 Tyrion VIII when he dies. Tywin goes dark as I carry around in my signature: Lord Tywin's face was so dark that for half a heartbeat Tyrion wondered if he'd drunk some poisonous wine as well.

Still we could deduce that purple is GRRMs colour of revenge.

The app confirmed it was Olenna who put the poison in the cup. I'd say that Margaery will defibitly have known about it, Alerie is still a question mark.

That was a bit of news to me. Thanks!

[LordBloodraven]

Who founded White Harbor? I'm sure the book says it's Jon Stark but the wiki says it's House Manderly.

[Bob Sacamano]

Who founded White Harbor? I'm sure the book says it's Jon Stark but the wiki says it's House Manderly.

Jon Stark built the Wolf's Den. Then the Starks granted House Manderly the Wolf's Den, after which the Manderlys built White Harbor.

[HexMachina]

Why were Alys and Sigorn married in a Red Priest ceremony? Alys follows the Old Gods (I imagine. Suppose the Seven is possible) and Sigorn is a Thenn and likely does the same.

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

Why were Alys and Sigorn married in a Red Priest ceremony? Alys follows the Old Gods (I imagine. Suppose the Seven is possible) and Sigorn is a Thenn and likely does the same.

Most likely because the marriage was arranged by Queen Selyse, and Selyse follows the faith of R'hllor.

[aryagonnakill#2]

Longish introduction to a short question:

There's never been a doubt about that.

(After ASoS 68 Sansa VI, that is.)

In theory, someone so close to the centre of power might feel corrupted to change side for their own good. But when it is Cersei...

There it is:

ASoS 68 Sansa VI

There we go. It has been said before that it probably was no kettleblack who put the poison in the cup, most likely one Tyrell woman or the other, but who is still a mystery. And Sansa was not into the plot. Not that I deny her the ability to play her part well, but simply because it was not necessary to have her involved knowingly. Showtime:

ASoS 60 Tyrion VIII

(funny colouring by me)

What I must have missed is the obvious, when and where do Olenna and Petyr plotted this together. They met when Petyr proposed Joffrey to marry Margaery while the Wot5K was on.

The plot must have happened off page, or hasn't it?

Are there any beforehand clues, or foreshadowing?

The app confirmed it was Olenna who put the poison in the cup. I'd say that Margaery will defibitly have known about it, Alerie is still a question mark.

LF and Olenna could only have plotted anything together when they were in the same place. So the basics of the plan will have been made at Bitterbridge, the rest (if there was anything left to discuss) will have been in KL.

I can't think of any clues beforehand. There's only the remark about Tywins face growing purple as if he had been poisoned, which I think might have been the hint that Joff, whose face also turned purple, hadn't simply choked, but had truly been poisoned.

I know it is firmly established shortly after the wedding that it was indeed poison, but if anyone remembered the Tywin hint, they'd know instantly.

I think the Tyrells wouldn't have agreed to the murder until after they learned what Joffrey was life. Its a big risk for no real reward otherwise. Hence the scene where Marg and Olenna ask Sansa about Joffrey.

Edit: If I had to guess, I'd say that after LF told Cersei about the Tyrell plot to marry Sansa to Willas, he went to Olenna and told them if they want Sansa's marriage annulled and the monster Marg was gonna marry out of the picture, he had a perfect solution to both.

[HexMachina]

The app confirmed it was Olenna who put the poison in the cup. I'd say that Margaery will defibitly have known about it, Alerie is still a question mark.

LF and Olenna could only have plotted anything together when they were in the same place. So the basics of the plan will have been made at Bitterbridge, the rest (if there was anything left to discuss) will have been in KL.

Would Olenna be at Bitterbridge though? She is an old woman, would she really be dragged along on a military campaign?

[Jon Weirgaryen]

Would Olenna be at Bitterbridge though? She is an old woman, would she really be dragged along on a military campaign?

Or Petyr moved on to meet her at home.

[Roddy Darwin]

Would Olenna be at Bitterbridge though? She is an old woman, would she really be dragged along on a military campaign?

LF was "in the Eyrie" for, what, months? Except he was really chilling on a boat in Blackwater Bay. So I assume he could have gone to Highgarden at some point while pretending to be at Bitterbridge?

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

Would Olenna be at Bitterbridge though? She is an old woman, would she really be dragged along on a military campaign?

Perhaps LF travelled on to Highgarden..

But LF's men did spread the rumours about Joff's true nature amongst Mace's men, so Joff's character was known to Highgarden before Olenna reached KL.

Margaery was at Bitterbridge when LF left KL, and at Highgarden during the Battle of the Blackwater. Perhaps that says something about how LF got into contact?

[Roddy Darwin]

"What do you like to do, Lady Margaery?"

"Oh, y'know, hawking and riding and stuff. What about you, Lord Baelish?"

"Underage gurlz and poisoning people lol"

"Hey, you should add my grandma on facebook!"

[Jon Weirgaryen]

Perhaps LF travelled on to Highgarden..

But LF's men did spread the rumours about Joff's true nature amongst Mace's men, so Joff's character was known to Highgarden before Olenna reached KL.

Margaery was at Bitterbridge when LF left KL, and at Highgarden during the Battle of the Blackwater. Perhaps that says something about how LF got into contact?

I needn't know every detail, thanks, that works.

"What do you like to do, Lady Margaery?"

"Oh, y'know, hawking and riding and stuff. What about you, Lord Baelish?"

"Underage gurlz and poisoning people lol"

"Hey, you should add my grandma on facebook!"

*rofl*

case closed.

[Nittanian]

Jon Stark built the Wolf's Den. Then the Starks granted House Manderly the Wolf's Den, after which the Manderlys built White Harbor.

Yep!

From AGOT-66:

That one is Jon Stark. When the sea raiders landed in the east, he drove them out and built the castle at White Harbor.

GRRM went into greater detail about White Harbor in ADWD. From ADWD-19:

A thousand years before the Conquest, a promise was made, and oaths were sworn in the Wolf's Den before the old gods and the new. When we were sore beset and friendless and in peril of our lives, the wolves took us in and nourished us and protected us against our enemies. The city is built upon the land they gave us. In return we swore that we should always be their men. Stark men!

And from ADWD-29:

The Den was much older than White Harbor, the knight told Davos. It had been raised by King Jon Stark to defend the mouth of the White Knife against raiders from the sea.

[The Bedding]

Why weren't the sharp parts of the IT blunted?

[JonSnow4President]

Because a king should never sit comfortably or something like that. Hard to believe every successor disagreed with Aegon though.