Cleganebowl as a Trial by Seven

[SmartiesCereal]

I realize some people might be attached to Cleganebowl being a simple trial by combat, but what if this is turned into a "Trial by Seven"? http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Trial_of_seven I'm curious to what others might think of this lineup so far? I'm not too certain on some of my choices and having other eyes helps.

Cersei

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1-Osmund Kettleblack (in a cell via Kevan Lannister... but Kevan dies thus no accuser)

2-Osfryd Kettleblack (in a cell via Kevan Lannister... but Kevan dies thus no accuser)

3-Osney Kettleblack (in a cell accused of murder of the previous High Septon... so maybe not? Philip Foote instead?)

4-Meryn Trant

5-Boros Blount

6-Jaime Lannister (will be named, but is unwilling to attend. ?Ilyn Payne instead?)

7-Robert Strong (Gregor)

The Faith

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1-Theodan Wells

2-Lancel Lannister

3-Garland Tyrell (in aid of his sister's honor and avenge his brother)

4-Parmen Crane (to make amenise with the Tyrells for Renly's death,etc)

5-yet unknown Warrior's Son?

6-yet unknown Warrior's Son?

7-The Gravedigger (Sandor) (as part of atoning for his past will become anointed/appointed)

With Cersei's smugness in getting the Faith to finally bless Tommen she is inadvertently creating her own executionary squad... this could be viewed as Tommen being the valenquor as well.

[Coldwater Stone]

The fact that GRRM introduces the Trial by Seven in The Hedge Knight, I definitely see it recurring again in ASOIAF at some point. The High Septon has already stated his desire to have Margaery judged by The Seven, so it wouldn't surprise me if he altered a trial by combat in the same manner.

It's hard to say who would fight for The Faith. I don't see any Tyrell hopping on the Faith's team against Cersei, why waste their time/lives so blatantly opposed to Cersei aka Maergery's "good mother?" It's more likely Tyrells would be a part of any such trial by combat that Margaery might face.

I see the Faith's roster comprised of more unknown/lesser known characters seeking to win glory/favor through service to the Faith than bearing a grudge specifically against Cersei.

[Julian Rayne]

I too don't think there's going to be a Clegane-bowl. Mainly because I think that Sandor's role in rhe series is over. However I also disagree with your pick of Garlan.

Fighting for Cersei's prosecution will not defend his sister's honor in any way. As for Loras, he asked for the command himself. There's nothing to avenge.

Besides the Tyrells have a vested interest in Cersei being acquitted, as Kevan explained to Mace. Unlike his father, I think Garlan is smart enough to remember that without being repeatedly reminded.

[JoeyBanana]

Hm. I suppose she'll simply be stuck with the seven Kingsguards then. With Jaime missing and Loras dying/heavily wounded, will she be able to replace them or do they need to be declared dead and replaced? Balon Swann is also not available. Non-KGs options would be Daven Lannister, Illyn Payne, Adam Marbrand, i guess.

I don't know who else would fight, but Brienne has (most likely) met the High Septon before and he'd probably find a loophole like "champion of The Maiden" or something to let her stand against Cersei.

If he'll go with the trial by seven, all of the Faith's champions will have connections to the Seven Gods. Maybe Sandor/Stranger, Brienne/Maiden, Theodan/Warrior, etc. It'd get tricky with the others, though. Father? Mother? Crone? Gendry/Smith makes sense but seems too crackpot.

[SmartiesCereal]

@Coldwater Stone

I'm thinking more in that Margery's trial by jury (of which she will be found innocent or at the least acquitted) will happen in the novels before Cersei's trial by combat. And for as why any Tyrell's would join into a Trial by Seven would be more to face Ceresi who attempted to sully Margery's name rather primarily for the Faith itself.

@Julian Rayne

True enough about Loras and his asking to go to Dragonstone. I guess I was going off Cersei's inner monologues about it more rather than what had been openly discussion.

@JoeyBanana

I had Addam Marbrand down at one time as possible mixes, so maybe. The thing about the Warrior's Sons is they are seven knights solely representing the Warrior IIRC so that's where I started from rather than trying to assign all The Seven's aspects to the roster. But that would be an interesting if there was a way to work that out. Also I had thought about Brienne as one as well, but I have no bloody idea on the whole LSH stuff figuring into her availability. lol I could almost put Jaime on the roster on the Faith's side just so he could kill the Kettleblack's himself... but that seems a bit of a valenquor stretch.

[Fire Eater]

Sandor isn't going to fight in the trail by combat. Why would he travel that way with a bad leg? The HS doesn't even know he is at the QI, and wouldn't call for him. Elder Brother wouldn't mention he was there.

[LordToo-Fat-to-Sit-a-Horse]

If there is going to be a Cleganebowl, as a trial by combat, it won´t be in Cersei´s trial.

If Sansa gets captured, and tried for regicide, then yes. A trial of seven would be great.

[Ser Pigeon Pie]

I was soooo keen on a trial by Seven after reading THK, but like the others I doubt it is going to have Sandor included.

I think, however, if there is to be a trial by Seven, maybe the Sand Snakes would have something to do with. Both Tyene and Nymeria are on their way to Kings Landing, and with Tyene sent to try and befriend the High Septon, she could be the perfect choice as a candidate for one of the faiths champions. And if you include Nymeria and then attempt to get Obara to travel to Kl after slaying Darkstar, you've just got yourself 3 champions who are itching for some Lannister Vengeance.

It will be even sweeter when they discover that one of their opponents is their father's killer. I can see it now....

[Ramsay Gimp]

Cleganes aside, I don't like the idea of a trial by 7 conceptually or plot-wise. Cersei would basically have to put the entire Kingsguard at risk in one fight, no? But adding combatants also lessens the drama. If they all fight at once, it would be chaos, and if they took turns it would get boring.

[SmartiesCereal]

Cleganes aside, I don't like the idea of a trial by 7 conceptually or plot-wise. Cersei would basically have to put the entire Kingsguard at risk in one fight, no? But adding combatants also lessens the drama. If they all fight at once, it would be chaos, and if they took turns it would get boring.

I have another later plot event idea/wish that hinges off Tommen having a lesser amount of Kingsguard around, but really (if a Trail of Seven did happen) who else would she put in there? Nonetheless, I am itching for some chaos right about now.

[SmartiesCereal]

I was soooo keen on a trial by Seven after reading THK, but like the others I doubt it is going to have Sandor included.

I think, however, if there is to be a trial by Seven, maybe the Sand Snakes would have something to do with. Both Tyene and Nymeria are on their way to Kings Landing, and with Tyene sent to try and befriend the High Septon, she could be the perfect choice as a candidate for one of the faiths champions. And if you include Nymeria and then attempt to get Obara to travel to Kl after slaying Darkstar, you've just got yourself 3 champions who are itching for some Lannister Vengeance.

It will be even sweeter when they discover that one of their opponents is their father's killer. I can see it now....

Hmm, so Tyene and Nymeria take slot 5 and 6. Then you'd drop Sandor for Obara ... interesting. I'm about to start a reread of DWD so maybe that will persuade me more on the Sand Snakes. LOL@the father's killer comment. :)

[SmartiesCereal]

If there is going to be a Cleganebowl, as a trial by combat, it won´t be in Cersei´s trial.

If Sansa gets captured, and tried for regicide, then yes. A trial of seven would be great.

I'd be interested in seeing a lineup for that.

[Dorian Martell]

We know the outcome of the trial from the mercy chapter. All of this discussion is moot

[Ramsay Gimp]

Nonetheless, I am itching for some chaos right about now.

The two Queens' trials will lead to enough chaos and bloodshed, the trials themselves don't have to be chaotic brawls

[Lady Blizzardborn]

We know the outcome of the trial from the mercy chapter. All of this discussion is moot

No, we don't. There's been ample discussion about the fact that Harys Swift could have left before either trial took place. Not to mention that both ladies could be found not guilty and things would go back to the way they were before. It's not Cersei versus Margaery, it's The Faith versus each queen.

[Tywin Smokin a Blunt]

I hadn't considered this before, but im convinced. The new uber-devout high Septon is definitely going to ask for a trial by seven. However I think this makes it less likely that the trial will be the Cleganebowl many have been expecting. Sandor will be back, and I think he'll face un-Gregor, but I think it will come later probably in the Vale in the "castle made of snow".

[Dorian Martell]

No, we don't. There's been ample discussion about the fact that Harys Swift could have left before either trial took place. Not to mention that both ladies could be found not guilty and things would go back to the way they were before. It's not Cersei versus Margaery, it's The Faith versus each queen.

Yes, we do.

"If he goes back without the gold, the queen will have his head"

Does that sound like Cersei or Margery? Would he care what Cersei thought if she was still under arrest in her chambers? She is in control, and needing money.

[SmartiesCereal]

We know the outcome of the trial from the mercy chapter. All of this discussion is moot

Of course it's moot- that's why I put it up for outside input. (moot = subject to debate, dispute, or uncertainty, and typically not admitting of a final decision.) Anyways, I never mentioned anything about a winning side (The Faith or Cersei). The discussion/pipedream is ultimately about something that can't be known till the next book is out. And honestly The Mercy chapter reads like it came from the beginning of the book if not the prologue to me.

[Lady Blizzardborn]

Yes, we do.

"If he goes back without the gold, the queen will have his head"

Does that sound like Cersei or Margery? Would he care what Cersei thought if she was still under arrest in her chambers? She is in control, and needing money.

Margaery, granddaughter of the Queen of Thorns? Yes. If she ends up in control of everything we will see a side of her that will surprise a lot of people.

Would he care what Cersei thought if she was still under arrest? Yes, because he is dumb enough to think she's innocent and will be cleared, and will have his head if he fails. And since we're not hearing this from Swyft himself, we don't know if it's true that "the queen will have his head." Raff and company are not known for brains, or political savvy.

[Dorian Martell]

Raff and company do know a thing or two about the removal of heads. the point is that Swyft would know about he death of Kevan unless he took off to the docks at night after a council meeting. His position is dependent on Lannister power on the throne. If Cersei was dead and Margery was in power, swift would no longer be master of coin. A Tyrell lackey would be master of coin as Tywin and Mace had agreed.