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R+L=J v. 88


Stubby

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"The time has come," the Walrus said,

"To talk of many things:

Of shoes--and ships--and sealing-wax--

Of cabbages--and kings--

And why the sea is boiling hot--

And whether pigs have wings."

The Walrus and the Carpenter

Greymoon, I think you're reading too much in to the symbolism of cabbage leaves i the text. The practice of telling children that babies come from under cabbage leaves dates back to the middle ages, and GRRM has admitted he knew very little about female reproduction early on in his writing. It seems unlikely he gave that much thought to the fever being caused by a relatively obscure condition like mastitis (not obscure if you've suffered from it, but let's face it-- it's not well known to those who haven't borne children.)

What seems most logical is that he uses bed of blood in the same manner repeatedly throughout the text to indicate childbirth, and that he added the relatively well known condition of puerperal or childbed fever in this case to explain the tragic death of a relatively healthy young woman.

However....

I think your verse is spot on :D

This thread does indeed talk of many things,and while cabbages and kings seem tops on the list, I'm pretty sure some of those posts I can't see must be about whether pigs have wings ;)

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And where would Ned have gotten a chance to speak to Ashara. Ashara wasn't stuck at Starfall, but it seems she wasn't in KL either.

Where would Ned have had a chance to speak to her?

His information would of come at Storm's end, which is where he left to look for her from. Random guess seems unlikely it's a big kingdom. He was not in KL all that long from what has been written and Ashara making it through KL alone would seem odd, given it was being sacked and that probably did not stop for awhile given the time it would take to restore order.

Martin did mention both ship and horse with Ashara. Whoever told him Storm's end seems the most likely place. As that is the point of departure but who knows? Varys is an option or one of his agents, a simmple letter would do. Who told Hightower? Hightower managed to find and this is after they had been looking for Rhaegar for most of the war all of a sudden they knew where he was. Jaime mentions it, they looked for him but could not find him. There were plenty of men their that could lift the siege of Storm's End, Arryn, Blackfish may have been there, several lords under his command and Robb'. So I assume Storm's end.

Can this be right? It only took 2 weeks for Rickard to receive the summons and get to KL. I thought it took longer than 2 weeks to get from WF to KL by boat or on land??? Maybe I'm wrong.....

Where are you getting two weeks for Rickard to arrive from? This pre dates the raising of Arryn' banners.

"The time has come," the Walrus said,

"To talk of many things:

Of shoes--and ships--and sealing-wax--

Of cabbages--and kings--

And why the sea is boiling hot--

And whether pigs have wings." The Walrus and the Carpenter

....

Well it could be a nod to Carol that's true, will know if Jon and Sam sit down and eat a bunch of clams. Though it may also be a Nod to Richard II as the quote was a combination these two quotes.

Richard II: "For God's sake, let me sit on the ground and tell bad stories about cabbages and things."

Shakespeare's Richard II: "Let's talk of graves and worms and epitaphs... For God's sake, let us sit upon the ground/And tell sad stories of the death of kings."

The story of Richard II has some similarities to Roberts Rebllion.

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Where are you getting two weeks for Rickard to arrive from? This pre dates the raising of Arryn' banners.

From this quote. I was asking if it was a correct timeline? And if it only took 2 weeks for Rickard to receive the summons in WF and get to KL?

It is more like 6-7 months after Lyanna has disappeared:

(Week numbers)

00 Lyanna disappears. (Where from? The train of guests from the North to Riverrun?)

01 Word of her disappearing reaches Brandon Stark. He makes for King's Landing on his own.

03 Brandon reaches KL and is incarcerated Rickard Stark is summonned.

05 Rickard Stark and a host of Northerners arrive in KL and most of them get roasted.

06 Aerys' message asking for Ned's and Robert's head to reach the Eyrie

07 Robellion to start. Robert travels South, Ned travels North.

09 Stormlords march on Summerhall, Eddard fathers Jon Snow, says Lord Godric Borrell

13 Battles at Summerhall

16 Robert goes hunting at Storm's End with his prisoners from Summerhall, they become his friends. (SE<->Summerhall is 21 days travel time.)

21 Robert lays siege to Ashford Castle for a moment

22 Randyll Tarly relieves the siege at Ashford Castle and Robert is fleeing, possibly with Jon Connington possibly on his heels.

27 Storm's End is under siege six weeks later, that's the time Tyrell needs to cover the distance after having fathered Margaery...

28 Battle of the Bells at Stoney Sept, Robert wounded

30 Catelyn weds Ned, Lysa weds Jon at RR.

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Can this be right? It only took 2 weeks for Rickard to receive the summons and get to KL. I thought it took longer than 2 weeks to get from WF to KL by boat or on land??? Maybe I'm wrong.....

Where are you getting two weeks for Rickard to arrive from? This pre dates the raising of Arryn' banners.

From the above quote. I was asking if it was a correct timeline? And if it only took 2 weeks for Rickard to receive the summons in WF and get to KL?

That's from my timeline. I don't have the APP That Was Promised, but was told that the APP states the summons reach Rickard Stark and the Northerners who were on their way to Riverrun for Brandon's Wedding to Catelyn Stark.

I know for certain that a host of people takes a week to travel from the Trident to King's Landing, and that Brandon was killed nearly the day he would have been married to Catelyn,

When Brandon was travelling from Riverrun to meet his father's travelling company, he received the news of Lyanna's abduction, and tums to King's Landing instead.

I am assuming the turning point here is the Crossroads of the River Road and the King's Road, where the Inn of the Crossroads is situated. That when Lyanna goes missing and Brandon turns south, the other Northerners are still at least one week north of the Trident, and may have stopped to consolidate after Lyanna Stark's no longer with whoever she was before going missing.

So instead of 9 weeks from Winterfell to KL, it willl more likely be about two weeks from north of the Trident to King's Landing.

GRRM "months" probably have other names as well...and how do we know when the "new year" stars?

No names. only numbers. We know the day 300-1-1 is the day Joffrey I Baratheon and Margaery Tyrell wed.

Well it could be a nod to Carol that's true, will know if Jon and Sam sit down and eat a bunch of clams.

Too bad. I have a feeling they won't meet again in the next book.

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Greymoon, I think you're reading too much in to the symbolism of cabbage leaves i the text. The practice of telling children that babies come from under cabbage leaves dates back to the middle ages, and GRRM has admitted he knew very little about female reproduction early on in his writing. It seems unlikely he gave that much thought to the fever being caused by a relatively obscure condition like mastitis (not obscure if you've suffered from it, but let's face it-- it's not well known to those who haven't borne children.)

What seems most logical is that he uses bed of blood in the same manner repeatedly throughout the text to indicate childbirth, and that he added the relatively well known condition of puerperal or childbed fever in this case to explain the tragic death of a relatively healthy young woman.

However....

I think your verse is spot on :D

This thread does indeed talk of many things,and while cabbages and kings seem tops on the list, I'm pretty sure some of those posts I can't see must be about whether pigs have wings ;)

You know what the real Irony of that poem is? It's highly famous for being over interpreted and analyzed. Even though it was the illustrator who picked the Carpenter and not Carol who just wanted something that worked with the metre of the poem. I think from some of Martins comments that some fans might over analyze his work, not me of course just everyone else. I would never do something like that.

Martin talking with a fan.

Fan: What was Jon's exact day of birth?

Martin: Oh within about a month or so of this or that.

Fan; No the exact date

Martin: I don't have one, why does it matter?

Fan; Are you kidding the entire series hangs on this thread of his birthday.

Martin: It does?

Fan; Hello chubs have you not been reading the books, dear god man keep up. StarLaserPeacheatingFirebreather wrote the birth code. In the birth code if you are born on certain days you get to be king. Also if the day is the inverse of the subsequent day as in odds or evens Jon will get certain powers. On odd days Jon can shoot fireballs out of his hands on the even days he gets ice vision.

Martin: WTF

Fan: Now we need to know what kind of moon was up on the night of his birth. If it is a crescent waxing he gets lightbringer, if it is waining her gets Ice reforged. If it is a waxing half moon he gets a black dragon with red trim if it waining a blue dragon with silver trim. If it is a full moon he both dragons, both swords and flying chariot, if it is faceless Dany dies. How do you not follow StarLaserPeacheatingFirebreather, they are only considered the one true source of knowledge on the books?

Martin: They are?

Fan: Hello Martin, you should really start keeping up with the forum so you know what is happening in your books. OMG DiamondWolfMoonhunter, is posting, his stuff is always amazing, OMG it's called Peas and Carrots the true story of the Song of Ice and Fire. This is going to be brilliant OMG it's all about Hotpie and Darkstar sharing an apartment in KL it's already genius. Omg there neighbor is Jaqen h'ghar and the land lord is Xaro. I don't no how you squeeze all these secret sub plots and stories in there Mr. Martin but it puure genius.

Martin Stares at 2000 manuscript pages on cover page the title Winds of Winter. He then tosses it in the fire weeping "what have I done to the world? What have I done?"

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You know what the real Irony of that poem is? It's highly famous for being over interpreted and analyzed. Even though it was the illustrator who picked the Carpenter and not Carol who just wanted something that worked with the metre of the poem. I think from some of Martins comments that some fans might over analyze his work, not me of course just everyone else. I would never do something like that.

Martin talking with a fan.

Fan: What was Jon's exact day of birth?

Martin: Oh within about a month or so of this or that.

Fan; No the exact date

Martin: I don't have one, why does it matter?

Fan; Are you kidding the entire series hangs on this thread of his birthday.

Martin: It does?

Fan; Hello chubs have you not been reading the books, dear god man keep up. StarLaserPeacheatingFirebreather wrote the birth code. In the birth code if you are born on certain days you get to be king. Also if the day is the inverse of the subsequent day as in odds or evens Jon will get certain powers. On odd days Jon can shoot fireballs out of his hands on the even days he gets ice vision.

Martin: WTF

Fan: Now we need to know what kind of moon was up on the night of his birth. If it is a crescent waxing he gets lightbringer, if it is waining her gets Ice reforged. If it is a waxing half moon he gets a black dragon with red trim if it waining a blue dragon with silver trim. If it is a full moon he both dragons, both swords and flying chariot, if it is faceless Dany dies. How do you not follow StarLaserPeacheatingFirebreather, they are only considered the one true source of knowledge on the books?

Martin: They are?

Fan: Hello Martin, you should really start keeping up with the forum so you know what is happening in your books. OMG DiamondWolfMoonhunter, is posting, his stuff is always amazing, OMG it's called Peas and Carrots the true story of the Song of Ice and Fire. This is going to be brilliant OMG it's all about Hotpie and Darkstar sharing an apartment in KL it's already genius. Omg there neighbor is Jaqen h'ghar and the land lord is Xaro. I don't no how squeeze all these secret sub plots and stories in there Mr. Martin but it puure genius.

Martin Stares at 2000 manuscript pages on cover page the title Winds of Winter. He then tosses it in the fire weeping "what have I done to the world? What have I done?"

This is my favorite post in this thread to date.

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I need a huge notice with written on it : "Jon Snow has dark BROWN hair in the books, not black" because I'm tired of the "Jon Snow is black of hair ! OMG ! He is King Roberts' bastard with Ned's sister!" The worst thing is that they have the right mother.


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Hey guys. Guess what. This Ned guy is being made hand of the king by his best friend Robert. What Robert really doesn't know is that Ned's "bastard" *wink wink* is really a Targaryen prince, who is also actually the prince that was promised. Then this character over here is Azor Ahai. There were some other's invading and some other battles and stuff, but you get the idea. Also, sex scenes. The end.

Man, sure is funny how much a full blown story with many subtle, individually inconclusive hints is SOOO much better than as few words as possible.

You can reach the same conclusions using scenes and sentences and context.

Choosing random words on a page allows one to say whatever he or she wishes.... if you would like to write a story, it is best not to limit yourself to the words written by a person other than you-

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I need a huge notice with written on it : "Jon Snow has dark BROWN hair in the books, not black" because I'm tired of the "Jon Snow is black of hair ! OMG ! He is King Roberts' bastard with Ned's sister!" The worst thing is that they have the right mother.

Do you figure that's show creep? I also think the "Jon Snow is a pretty boy" comments I've seen have more to do with Harington than the character. I don't remember really anybody thinking he's pretty in the books. (You could do the "Lyanna is pretty and Jon looks like Lyanna" thing, but for whatever reason that's just not how anybody reacts to him in the books. Ned either.)

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Do you figure that's show creep? I also think the "Jon Snow is a pretty boy" comments I've seen have more to do with Harington than the character. I don't remember really anybody thinking he's pretty in the books. (You could do the "Lyanna is pretty and Jon looks like Lyanna" thing, but for whatever reason that's just not how anybody reacts to him in the books. Ned either.)

I'm pretty sure the wildlings call him pretty, but not 100%

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Ser Creighton said:

"Well it could be a nod to Carol that's true, will know if Jon and Sam sit down and eat a bunch of clams. Though it may also be a Nod to Richard II as the quote was a combination these two quotes.

Richard II: "For God's sake, let me sit on the ground and tell bad stories about cabbages and things."

Shakespeare's Richard II: "Let's talk of graves and worms and epitaphs... For God's sake, let us sit upon the ground/And tell sad stories of the death of kings."

The story of Richard II has some similarities to Roberts Rebllion."

That is great call and sounds like GRRM.

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On Ashara, I think it is a combination of two possibilities.

One, I like the theory that Rhaegar spoke with Dustin, and two that it might have been Ashara who found Ned to tell him that Lyanna was sick.

Between Dustins information and Ashara, he took only a few trusted men and knew where to go.

Hence GRRMS statement of not being nailed down to Starfall.

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Fan; Hello chubs have you not been reading the books, dear god man keep up. StarLaserPeacheatingFirebreather wrote the birth code. In the birth code if you are born on certain days you get to be king. Also if the day is the inverse of the subsequent day as in odds or evens Jon will get certain powers. On odd days Jon can shoot fireballs out of his hands on the even days he gets ice vision.

"Hello chubs" was all I had to read before nosewatering all over my monitor. :lol: :lmao:

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