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Dany will NOT fight the Others


Mithras

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I agree that the ants and the wall represents the Others and the Wall. However, I don't think it means she never goes to the Wall. I am of the opinion that the wall has already fallen (I think it fell in Jon's last chapter). I think this is what the ants and wall mean (and yes, it happens while she is unaware).


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I think the ants coming over the wall is an interesting point. Not sure I agree with the conclusion, but it is interesting as a potential foreshadowing to how Dany may become aware of the Others.

One thing that doesn't follow to me is that by the time Dany could be 'surprised' by the Others coming she will have met both Marwyn and Tyrion, who are both aware of the Others to some extent, Marwyn especially so, since he's just had the full story from Sam Tarly.

It also assumes that no one would have gotten a Raven off at any point between the Wall and the Trident to warn the South about the impending attacks.

I just don't know that I believe it's going to be a great secret that a large undead army (presumably wiping out half the kingdom by that point) as far South as the Trident could surprise anyone.

Good point. The woman in the HotU vision (savaged by the dwarves) represents the Realm, and I think so is Dany’s body in this case. Dany will certainly learn that the Others returned and are attacking the Realm BEFORE going to the Wall but she will turn deaf ears to that (she cannot leave Dancing) while the Others are tearing pieces from the Realm.

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Whoah... For a second I thought you consider this as serious piece of foreshadowing...

Once again, the OP may have a good conclusion but for all the bad reasons. Rejecting far more powerful piece of foreshadowing with ANTS? Like, seriously? Well, as I said, the conclusion might be valid, but we should take the narrative into consideration, not solely use dubious and quite frankly meaningless "pieces of foreshadowing" colored with bias opinion.

I think the Wall and the ants are quite a strong piece of foreshadowing. I am curious to hear if you have a stronger one.

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Good point. The woman in the HotU vision (savaged by the dwarves) represents the Realm, and I think so is Dany’s body in this case. Dany will certainly learn that the Others returned and are attacking the Realm BEFORE going to the Wall but she will turn deaf ears to that (she cannot leave Dancing) while the Others are tearing pieces from the Realm.

This would be completely out of character for her. She has already put aside her quest to take back the IT once for something more important. She will likely do the same when she learns of the Others.

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Just for clarification;

I did not say anywhere that Dany will not go to the Wall. She WILL go to the Wall but not to fight the Others.

what would she be doing at the Wall but fighting the Others? Also, why do the ants have to represent the Others? They could just as easily represent the Weeper and his army, who could send climbers over at places Jon hasn't garrisoned yet.
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By this time isn't it obvious that all major good characters will be at the wall to contribute in their own important ways in the climatic fight against the others?

You would think so. Especially when the author has said the war against the Others is what's really important. Not the game of the thrones.

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Could be her part of the battle with the Others will take place at the Trident, while Jon will battle them at the Wall or Winterfell.


I had a little theory that when the Wall comes down or if they get past it some other way, the Others will be able to raise wights all over Westeros. Everyone fighting the "Ants" that have swarmed all over the seven Kingdoms.



Could easily be that after these battles have happened that Jon & Daenerys will finally meet & go beyond the Wall to end it once and for all.



Personally I think Daenerys will fight the Others either at the Wall or the Trident or anywhere else , but I guess we wont know for sure till we read it.


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I think the Wall and the ants are quite a strong piece of foreshadowing. I am curious to hear if you have a stronger one.

Well, I don't believe that it foreshadows anything, but I do admit I have higher standards and demands when foreshadowing is concernef. I base my opinion about this on the narrative, logistics of finishing story in two books and several other elements that ants took out of this opening post.

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You would think so. Especially when the author has said the war against the Others is what's really important. Not the game of the thrones.

I always found this rather too simplistic. If you think that game of thrones won't have its impact on War for Dawn, then I think you are to expect a huge surprize. Simply, game is integral part of the story and it will ubdoubtedly shape the forces fighting with Others.

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Well, I don't believe that it foreshadows anything, but I do admit I have higher standards and demands when foreshadowing is concernef. I base my opinion about this on the narrative, logistics of finishing story in two books and several other elements that ants took out of this opening post.

Completely agree with you and I ask that we consider a couple of things before claiming the ants are representative of the Others. From a previous post of mine:

The ant bites Dany receives cause inflammation (fire, not ice). Also, do you expect Dany to destroying the Others by simply crushing them like ants (which is what she goes on to do)? I think this scene is more about Dany's awareness of the Wall rather than about the Others.

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My reading of visions and analogies in ASOIAF is that they can usually be interpreted in more than one way, or they can be meaningless or misleading. It's interesting to speculate what they might mean, but another thing entirely to be certain.


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I always found this rather too simplistic. If you think that game of thrones won't have its impact on War for Dawn, then I think you are to expect a huge surprize. Simply, game is integral part of the story and it will ubdoubtedly shape the forces fighting with Others.

Well yeah. for one thing the Wot5K has taken a huge toll on Westeros. I don't think it particularly matters who's sitting on the IT when the Others attack in full force though.

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How in heaven's name is this foreshadowing that she will turn her back on the Others problem? You seem to have caught the HotU parallel to the dwarves feasting on the woman, yet you come to this conclusion? Why are you spinning this as indication she won't leave the political fight to deal with winter instead of simply seeing it as a warning for Dany that there's something beyond the Wall demanding attention?



I happen to agree that Dany is probably not going to be the person to deal with the Others, or do so in a way that neutralizes them. But my reasons for this have more to do with skepticism about the efficacy of a dragon against them, as well as my belief that there's something more sophisticated behind their magic that demands a different countermeasure (for example, can a skinchanger cause interference so that the Others are unable to raise more dead). "Burning shit" works for the wights, but Others aren't wights, and I'm not remotely convinced that "burning shit" is the solution.



Not to mention, in a much broader sense, I do not believe for a second that fire should be vanquishing ice. They're pretty much exactly the same save for temperature.



I've seen more than enough of your Azor Ahai posts to understand that you see "Azor Ahai" as a synonym for "one true hero and absolute good guy." I think it might be time to re-evaluate this. Please look at the characters who think AA is a good guy-- they are invariably fire nazis.



To add, the only character who has connected the Others and Long Night to AA is Mel. Mel, ffs. That does not mean that the original AA defeated the Long Night or any such thing. It means that this is how Mel sees it. The other Reds have political agendas, and Benerro speaks to a more total victory of eternal light and life in his little speech. He thinks that Dany's coming will end death and bring an endless summer. That's not the same thing as overcoming the Others. No, it's basically advocating for a hotter versions of what the Others do.


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@Paper Waver--I started my question to you in a different thread, but I think it makes more sense to continue here in your OP. What I don't understand about your position is how you think Dany can go to the wall (for whatever purpose) and not get pulled into the fight against the Others? Do you think the Others will already be defeated before she gets there? Do you think she dies in battle at the wall before the Others get past the wall? I understand that you think she goes for another purpose, but once there, isn't it logical that she would get pulled into the fight with the Other--would realize that they are the real threat?


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Good point. The woman in the HotU vision (savaged by the dwarves) represents the Realm, and I think so is Dany’s body in this case. Dany will certainly learn that the Others returned and are attacking the Realm BEFORE going to the Wall but she will turn deaf ears to that (she cannot leave Dancing) while the Others are tearing pieces from the Realm.

I'd be curious to hear how Aegon fits into your theory. If he takes the realm, would he not try and defend it from the Others? Would Dany be so shortsighted as to think she could rule Westeros by conquering it while the rest of the realm was at war with the Others?

I truly can't imagine a scenario where even the most bitter enemies aren't going to have to lay all those grudges aside to fight the common threat. Lannister and Starks, Targ and Lannister- all of them. Blood feuds are stupid when you're all facing the same certain death if you fail.

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Well yeah. for one thing the Wot5K has taken a huge toll on Westeros. I don't think it particularly matters who's sitting on the IT when the Others attack in full force though.

Well, it actually does matter who will lead the forces against Others. Not necessarily does that have to be the person who sits in the IT, but at the end, person being in charge will have to do a lot of political maneuvering. There is a reasong ehy both Dany and Jon are being taught leading skills.

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