Dany will NOT fight the Others

[Mladen]

But it can pose danger to the mission. It does. I am not sure that Mance’s plans (whatever they are) will be good for Jon.

Being good for Jon and being good for preparations for invasion of Others are NOT the same thing.

[butterbumps!]

Because

Stannis is in the North and she will not welcome Dany to North as long as he lives.

fAegon is in the South and Dany will not suffer him strengthen his position and take seat at KL.

Dany is SURPRISED that so many ants came and did so much damage. That does not look like a person who will be aware of the real danger.

I agree with this. A magic sword or a dragon should not win the war. The key point is the leadership.

That does not necessarily mean that their religion persisted for thousands of years without corruption. In fact, it is quite the opposite. They mistake Satan for God and worship demons without knowing that. This can be said for certain real world religions too.

In addition, AA does not have to be LIKE THEY SAID. There might be lots of fabrications about AA. I think the real hero was the Last Hero but in Essos, his tales are twisted. An AA as the red religion claims did not live but the real figure behind the AA lived.

Oh, so you mean people other than Dany will keep focusing on politics and not see the big picture. And the mere notion that when Dany sees the massive unpleasantness that is the current state of Westeros, not to mention, frozen zombies running around, no way will she ever stop fighting for that throne. The throne that she, as per DwD, doesn't even truly want to rule from. I can certainly see the sense in assuming that Dany will not abandon the goal of taking the IT, even though she is already ambivalent about it, and despite how events are lined up that will invariably render her even less intent on taking the throne (including, but not limited to, seeing how much suffering of innocents has already occurred in the game of thrones, knowledge of Aerys, and goddam wight armies).

I'm sorry to be sharp with this, but I really take issue with this line of perpetual argument to stack everything for Jon and paint Dany as a useless reptile herder. If Stannis or Aegon or Northmen refuse to cooperate with an otherwise willing Dany-- whose dragon will be useful for decimating wight armies at the very minimum-- then it's on them. Not Dany.

And for the record, even if Dany's main contribution is wrangling problem claimants in the political sphere (like Euron, for example), then that's actually a very big service to the overall big big picture. The game and this song business are not separate. As you, yourself, seem to acknowledge in pointing out that what's required here is strong leadership.

[Mithras]

Being good for Jon and being good for preparations for invasion of Others are NOT the same thing.

In this case they ARE, because Jon is the LC of the NW and he is (was) doing a very good job at it.

[Mladen]

In this case they ARE, because Jon is the LC of the NW and he is (was) doing a very good job at it.

Not actually... They aren't and pretending they are is just over-simplification of Jon's story, not mentioning the story of the invasion. I would argue that Jon sleeping with Ygritte was good for him, but at the same time I doubt that Ygritte widened her legs to stop invasion of Others.

[TheMysteriousOne]

Dany is SURPRISED that so many ants came and did so much damage. That does not look like a person who will be aware of the real danger.

I'm sorrry, but when I read this I spat out my orange juice in laughter. The reasoning behind this statement is so laughably ridiculous.

[Mladen]

I'm sorrry, but when I read this I spat out my orange juice in laughter. The reasoning behind this statement is so laughably ridiculous.

The Mysterious one spatting out orange juice is a foreshadow that Sansa is hiding her identity because Arya threw an orange at her once.

What an astute piece of foreshadowing, right?

[TheMysteriousOne]

The Mysterious one spatting out orange juice is a foreshadow that Sansa is hiding her identity because Arya threw an orange at her once.

What an astute piece of foreshadowing, right?

LOL Definitely.

[Kyoshi]

I'm sorrry, but when I read this I spat out my orange juice in laughter. The reasoning behind this statement is so laughably ridiculous.

I was sitting in a bus and laughed so much the people around thought I was crazy.

[Suzanna Stormborn]

The Mysterious one spatting out orange juice is a foreshadow that Sansa is hiding her identity because Arya threw an orange at her once.

What an astute piece of foreshadowing, right?

That was hilarious :)

[The King in Black]

This is Lost all over again: the ending is going be a predictable, boring, clichéd fight against evil others by ALL THE GOOD GUYS ALLYING. Everybody will have something VERY important to do.Get ready for a BIG disappointment or get real. And there is more to life than asoiaf....so just chill, stay away from such forums from time to time and let Martin do his job ( what's taking so long anyway? )

[Mithras]

The Mysterious one spatting out orange juice is a foreshadow that Sansa is hiding her identity because Arya threw an orange at her once.

What an astute piece of foreshadowing, right?

No, LF will try to rape Sansa.

[Hodor's Dragon]

Jon is the ONLY person who TRULY understood the danger posed by the Others to the MANKIND.

Where the heck does this info come from? Heck, I've read the books 5 times and I have little understanding of the danger posed by the Others. What makes you think Jon has info that's not in the books at all?

[Consigliere]

This is not even foreshadowing. Just more connecting of random dots to support the OP's notion of "This is how I want the story to be told". Reminds me a bit of the "Sansa's arc in WoW" thread.

[Mithras]

Where the heck does this info come from? Heck, I've read the books 5 times and I have little understanding of the danger posed by the Others. What makes you think Jon has info that's not in the books at all?

“Tormund is none of those things,” said Jon, “no more than Mance Rayder. But even if every word you said was true, they are still men, Bowen. Living men, human as you and me. Winter is coming, my lords, and when it does, we living men will need to stand together against the dead.”

Jon flexed the fingers of his sword hand. “Cotter Pyke’s galleys sail past Hardhome from time to time. He tells me there is no shelter there but the caves. The screaming caves, his men call them. Mother Mole and those who followed her will perish there, of cold and starvation. Hundreds of them. Thousands.”

“Thousands of enemies. Thousands of wildlings.”

Thousands of people, Jon thought. Men, women, children. Anger rose inside him, but when he spoke his voice was quiet and cold. “Are you so blind, or is it that you do not wish to see? What do you think will happen when all these enemies are dead?”

Above the door the raven muttered, “Dead, dead, dead.”

“Let me tell you what will happen,” Jon said. “The dead will rise again, in their hundreds and their thousands. They will rise as wights, with black hands and pale blue eyes, and they will come for us.”

Read more.

[Mithras]

Id love to know what your other 4000+ posts are about, the certainty in your statements seems to me quite foolish, Dany will no doubt reach the wall, or atleast join the battle against the others, as to whether she is victorious or not still has to be seen.

You are more foolish than I am because at least I posted why I think Dany will not fight the Others with reference to the text. Unless you have the unpublished two books at hand, the certainty in your post is the epitome of foolishness according to your logic.

[Mithras]

How in heaven's name is this foreshadowing that she will turn her back on the Others problem?

Because Dany turned her back to the wall and slept through the night, irresponsive to the ants coming from the other side of the wall and biting her.

[butterbumps!]

You are more foolish than I am because at least I posted why I think Dany will not fight the Others with reference to the text. Unless you have the unpublished two books at hand, the certainty in your post is the epitome of foolishness according to your logic.

PW, this is not evidence that she will not fight the Others. Especially because the fact that she gets up and carries on forward can cut the other way to how you're spinning this.

If you want to make the argument that Dany is not going to fight Others, the way to do that is to look closely at everything we know of the Others, see that they are probably more complex than will automatically be defeated by dragon-fire, and analyze the way their magic seems to work. It looks like they might be performing something closer to skinchanging or even an adjacent magic to the Faceless, which isn't some Zelda-boss style elemental opposites weak point. At any rate, there's something more complex there that makes it highly unlikely Dany would be one of the people to deal with them so directly, at least if there's a form of skinchanging behind their magic. This is a line of argument that actually has logic.

This drives me kind of crazy, because I'm a major Jon fan and don't really like Dany. But what I like less than Dany is intellectual dishonesty. And this longtime quest of yours to twist everything into a "Dany is worthless" position is nothing short of it.

Because Dany turned her back to the wall and slept through the night, irresponsive to the ants coming from the other side of the wall and biting her.

Because she was unaware of them until she woke up????? Did she wake up, find ants crawling on her, and invite them down to tea and polite conversation? Or did she summarily neutralize them as a threat and press forward?

Where you can make use of this as "foreshadowing" is to say that she left the anthill in tact. Which might imply she will not be the prime operative who destroys the Others at their source. But that argument still needs further backing, and I suggest doing so by analyzing the Others' magic as best we can for now.

[Mithras]

@Paper Waver--I started my question to you in a different thread, but I think it makes more sense to continue here in your OP. What I don't understand about your position is how you think Dany can go to the wall (for whatever purpose) and not get pulled into the fight against the Others? Do you think the Others will already be defeated before she gets there? Do you think she dies in battle at the wall before the Others get past the wall? I understand that you think she goes for another purpose, but once there, isn't it logical that she would get pulled into the fight with the Other--would realize that they are the real threat?

I think Dany will spend her armies and two of her dragons in the Dance, while the Others are advancing in the North. This way, the ammo of the Realm of men in the war against the Others will continue to be spent for the Game of Thrones.

The situation in the North will get worse steadily. After winning the Dance she will march on KL to end the last resistance in the South. That will be Cersei in KL.

At this point, Jon will challenge Dany by pressing his claim and command her to bring her forces to the Wall. Dany will head North to defeat this new pretender just like Aegon I rode North once. This time though, it will be the monarch coming from the South will bend the knee. Jon will prove his heritage to her somehow.

A stone turned under her foot. She stumbled to one knee and cried out in pain,

The grass swayed and bowed low, as if before a king, but no king appeared to her.

Drogon came, snorting plumes of smoke. The grass bowed down before him.

Then, Dany will die from childbirth. The father will probably be Victarion.

[Hodor's Dragon]

“Tormund is none of those things,” said Jon, “no more than Mance Rayder. But even if every word you said was true, they are still men, Bowen. Living men, human as you and me. Winter is coming, my lords, and when it does, we living men will need to stand together against the dead.”

Jon flexed the fingers of his sword hand. “Cotter Pyke’s galleys sail past Hardhome from time to time. He tells me there is no shelter there but the caves. The screaming caves, his men call them. Mother Mole and those who followed her will perish there, of cold and starvation. Hundreds of them. Thousands.”

“Thousands of enemies. Thousands of wildlings.”

Thousands of people, Jon thought. Men, women, children. Anger rose inside him, but when he spoke his voice was quiet and cold. “Are you so blind, or is it that you do not wish to see? What do you think will happen when all these enemies are dead?”

Above the door the raven muttered, “Dead, dead, dead.”

“Let me tell you what will happen,” Jon said. “The dead will rise again, in their hundreds and their thousands. They will rise as wights, with black hands and pale blue eyes, and they will come for us.”

Read more.

3 questions:

(1) Where is the information in the books that confirms these statements are correct?

(2) Where is the information in the books that confirms these are the only threats from the Others?

(3) But even assuming we can draw firm, universal conclusions from the fragmentary info we have been given about the Others (which is not something I would feel comfortable with, personally, as we've seen very little of the OThers), what about other people like Sam, the Old Bear, and Maester Aemon who we have seen making similar statements? Much less all the other nameless folks on the Wall. Even though we know Jon has political opposition, you would figure that most of the folks with common sense would probably hold similar views. They've all either seen the dead rise or heard about it. Wouldn't they all be fearing these things, and not just Jon? I damn sure would. It seems to me that Jon's political opposition are mostly just people who are anti-Jon or anti-change, not people who represent a particularly intelligent point of view.

Unless you can answer these questions, you haven't shown either (1) that what Jon knows is true, (2) that what he knows constitutes a full understanding of the threat from the Others, or (3) that others don't know what he knows. Your initial statement that Jon is the only person who fully understands the threat from the Others lacks foundation on any basis.

[Mithras]

Because she was unaware of them until she woke up????? Did she wake up, find ants crawling on her, and invite them down to tea and polite conversation? Or did she summarily neutralize them as a threat and press forward?

Where you can make use of this as "foreshadowing" is to say that she left the anthill in tact. Which might imply she will not be the prime operative who destroys the Others at their source. But that argument still needs further backing, and I suggest doing so by analyzing the Others' magic as best we can for now.

She woke up when the night is over, and I doubt she will find so many wights after the LN 2.0. is dealt with. I think she will die before fighting the Others and when she wakes up in the afterlife, she can candycrush as many wights she can.