What would YOU have done? (Pick a decision you dislike in the story and change it)

[Annara Snow]

He had allies within the walls of the city, at least enough to open a gate for him, plus the royal fleet is not nothing. It would be risky and based on precise timing, but the element of surprise would be 100%. Perhaps he could send Ser Davos ahead with a force of picked men hidden in a merchant vessel.

The Red Keep would hold out for a time, but not as long as it would take for help to come from outside.

5,000 men could absolutely take unprepared start-of-ACoK KL by surprise, with the help of a fleet.

Be that as it may... and then what? What's the point of taking a city if you can't hold it? What was he going to hold it with? Much less than 5000 men (depending on how many died in the battle)? And from there, he would go... where and do what? What would be the point of sitting in KL for a while until Tywin or Renly or someone comes to lay a siege to it, when you can't defend it, let alone conquer the rest of the Seven Kingdoms?

[Blue_Bard]

Be that as it may... and then what? What's the point of taking a city if you can't hold it? What was he going to hold it with? Much less than 5000 men (depending on how many died in the battle)? And from there, he would go... where and do what? What would be the point of sitting in KL for a while until Tywin or Renly or someone comes to lay a siege to it, when you can't defend it, let alone conquer the rest of the Seven Kingdoms?

Tywin? Hah. If he turned his army around and march on KL, Robb would be on his ass like white on Snow. More likely, Robb would still smash Stafford's army and Roose Bolton would destroy Tywin. Roose is not a man to be undone and would happily avenge his defeat on the Green Fork by smashing Tywin against the walls of KL. In this world, Roose's treason would have no purpose, with the Lannisters turned out of KL, so he would prove an able Stark bannerman.

The only threat would be Renly. The idea would be that Renly would hesitate to attack him, and if he did Melisandre could deal with him.

Imagine how the parley outside of SE would have gone in KL:

Renly: No one wants you for their king, Stannis. They reject you on the Wall, they reject you in Dorne.

Stannis: See this crown? On my head?

Renly: ...

Stannis: Go set up your siege engines or go help me with the Lannisters.

And then when Renly leaves, Stannis calls in Melisandre and prepares the shadow baby plot.

So one of two things happen: Either Renly bends the knee and there's now a 100,000-strong army ready to deal with the remains of the Lannisters and make Robb submit as well, or Renly dies from shadow-baby, his army dissolves into chaos, the Northmen destroy the Lannisters, and there is no other claimant to the throne.

[RainGhost]

If I were Theon I would never have been stupid enough to take Winterfell with 30 men and expect to hold it.

If I were Stannis I would not have assumed that everyone believed the twincest without proof. I would either have agreed with Catelyn's idea of holding a council or else allied with the Starks because they didn't want to steal my throne (then convince them of the twincest later). I would also have sent envoys to Dorne, the Iron Islands and the Vale. I understand his attitude towards Renly as he wanted to steal his throne but I would try a bit harder to convince him of the twincest. Or, I would have trusted my brother and told him of the twincest before Robert died.

[Unbent_Unbroken]

If I were Robb, I would have kept Theon with me and not send him off to Pyke. Don't put him in a position where he'd have to choose between you and his family.

If I were Ned, I would have listened to Renly.

If I were Viserys, I'd have kept my mouth shut around the Dothraki.

If I were Cersei, I would have let Robert father my first born son at least before resuming twincest.

[Bryden Tully]

Tywin? Hah. If he turned his army around and march on KL, Robb would be on his ass like white on Snow. More likely, Robb would still smash Stafford's army and Roose Bolton would destroy Tywin. Roose is not a man to be undone and would happily avenge his defeat on the Green Fork by smashing Tywin against the walls of KL. In this world, Roose's treason would have no purpose, with the Lannisters turned out of KL, so he would prove an able Stark bannerman.

The only threat would be Renly. The idea would be that Renly would hesitate to attack him, and if he did Melisandre could deal with him.

Imagine how the parley outside of SE would have gone in KL:

Renly: No one wants you for their king, Stannis. They reject you on the Wall, they reject you in Dorne.

Stannis: See this crown? On my head?

Renly: ...

Stannis: Go set up your siege engines or go help me with the Lannisters.

And then when Renly leaves, Stannis calls in Melisandre and prepares the shadow baby plot.

So one of two things happen: Either Renly bends the knee and there's now a 100,000-strong army ready to deal with the remains of the Lannisters and make Robb submit as well, or Renly dies from shadow-baby, his army dissolves into chaos, the Northmen destroy the Lannisters, and there is no other claimant to the throne.

Ugh more fanfiction. I'm just going to number this

1)Roose Bolton had an army of foot that had suffered 2,000 odd dead along with the loss of many of it's commanders. He's not marching anywhere

2)The stuff about the crown is fanfiction-we've already established Stannis can't capture Kings Landing-his troops are piss

3)The Tyrells will not back Stannis even if he's king, Stannis would last about 10 minutes in Kings Landing before he has 100,000 troops sieging him, troops that could also crush the northerners if need be

He had allies within the walls of the city, at least enough to open a gate for him, plus the royal fleet is not nothing. Of course he is not going to just have at the walls with battering rams a la the Blackwater, he would use something more based on speed. It would be risky and based on precise timing, but the element of surprise would be 100%. Perhaps he could send Ser Davos ahead with a force of picked men hidden in a merchant vessel.

The Red Keep would hold out for a time, but not as long as it would take for help to come from outside.

5,000 men could absolutely take unprepared start-of-ACoK KL by surprise, with the help of a fleet.

EDIT: I'm not a Stannis partisan either, but the defenses of KL sucked before Tyrion got to them, and he barely was ready in time for the Blackwater.

1) No-he had a couple of merchants and men at arms who were captured before they could do anything. Littlefinger and Varys control the city watch, and they would not let Stannis get in the city

2)Something like what? He's going to be facing arrow fire no matter what because the troops would have at least 2-3 days to get ready. Cersei alone has spies on Dragonstone I assume (line about fishing boats with Varys) meaning that she can prepare the troops.

In order for the plan to work you need a complete surprise-like literal suprise but they would have a couple of days to prepare meaning they'd be able to prep archers-Ned said 200 archers could keep back 10,000 men at Moat Cailin I'm sure that 4,000 watch members could beat 4,000 Troops.

Okay let's say that the Red Keep can keep Stannis out(whom I can't stand, yet his is probably the most stupid decision of the books) he still holds the rest of the city. He's got his forces inside of the capital. He's got his ships blocking the port and the mouth of the river.

The inhibitors of the city have no love for the Lannisters or King Joffery. They have spent some time living in terror of a sack(so long as he treats them kindly he should have no trouble and Stannis keeps his men in well working order. He only had to geld 3 men on the wall. So I don't see the city getting some sacking like under Tywin)

The inhibitors of the city still remember the last time that Tywin let loose his wroth on the city and aren't going to want him back inside of the city. Renly is marching on the rose road. Hears word of the capital falling he either comes and bends the knee or he attacks. He can no longer afford the leisurely stroll its either get your ass to the city or give up the crown.

Robb in the west hears of the city falling and helps catch Tywin under the walls of the city. Hammer and Anvil affect. That's the end of the lannisters and he might have just gotten the help of Robb Stark. Whom more than likely would take the crown off as he's gotten his vengeance.

That leaves Cersei and her brood stranded in the Red Keep. The longer they hold out the more those that are stuck in there with them are going to be likely to turn them over to the Stannis. Epecially if they end up starving. So mini castle or not they are well and royally fucked.

A sack is going to happen no matter what-sellswords don't follow Stannis out of love-they follow him out of pocket and they will want their prize..

You sound like one of those generals who says at the start of the war

'lets attack them here and here, and then we've won''. It seems like this plan is similar to the Bay of pigs-you know how that ended up?

War isn't as simple as saying Anvil and Hammer, Robb would have to march his forces down the kingsroads strecthing the supply lines and then engage Tywin in the Crownlands where the Blackfish would be less effect-this would also allows Tywin to use the other vassals (Rosby etc) and use their troops as well. End up starving?

The entire city starves for about the whole of COK and I didn't see anyone selling out Cersei-as I already said, and you've ignored Tommen would be in Rosby-meaning he gets crowned even if Stannis manages to capture the city (which is not going to happen).

Just to make it clear-Stannis doesn't have enough men. He's got 2,000 sellswords, no heavy cavalry and his vassal houses are a joke. I don't think you really understand medival warfare because amphibious warfare didn't work back then-not only would the men route but they'd be at complete risk from a cavarly attack and the majority of the boats would either capsize or sink due to the lack of planning involded. Along with the lack of commanders available means the troops are not going to fight well

[Luthien Targaryen]

If i were Ned i'd have respectfully told Robert that i didn't want to be Hand, i already ran half his kingdom for him, but lack any skills or interest in court politics. There's got to be somebody better qualified about.

If that didn't work, i'd have made sure that Cersei and her sprogs were on the first ship to Braavos whether she liked it or not. I wouldn't tell her about it first either. I'd inform Varys, Littlefinger and Renly that they could work the rest of the details out between them, because i was going home with my girls. Oh and Sansa would not have time to pack...

I I were Catelyn I would have questioned Tyrion BEFORE I got to The Eyrie.

[Lord Reaver]

If I was Aemon Targaryen, I'd have accepted the crown when it was offered to me, thus sparing the 7k the rule of my brother and his messed up descendants.

[Wmarshal]

I am Egg. don't burn my castle down and maybe live as long as Aemon and rule like a great king.

[the conquering bastard 25]

If I was Aemon Targaryen, I'd have accepted the crown when it was offered to me, thus sparing the 7k the rule of my brother and his messed up descendants.

Whose to say that Aemon's would be any better than Aegon's? They are of the same blood and madness is genetic(or appears to be in this world.) So once again how do you know that Aemon wouldn't have had crazy children or grandchildren. When a Targaryen is born the gods flip a coin and decide mad or brilliant. It seems that all of Maekar's children or at least the sons had dragon dreams and that it lead to their deaths. Aemon also demenstrated that he had dragon dreams. Didn't he say he saw a red dragon when talking to Tarly on the ship on their way down to Oldtown?

Actually that's food for thought. Dany's dragon is black and none of them are red. Yet in the Mystery Knight we find out that Daemon II of his name had a dream that a dragon would be born at the Tourney. The dragon egg on display was red with bronze/black threading. Daemon said the egg would hatch, and Bloodraven thought that the dragon talked about was Aegon. What's funny is that Bloodraven went through the trouble of stealing the egg. Now if you were Rhaegar and you thought that Jon or Visernya was going to be one of the dragon heads, wanting to make sure that he or she no matter the results of the war had your egg, wouldn't you leave it with Lyanna? Also, that puts the book on dragons that the Starks had in their library that Tyrion read on his way to the Wall. Leaving the future child knowledge on dragons. Also, Aemon had Sam pull up a book on Targaryen lineage all the way from before the doom. I wonder why he did such a thing. Seeing as it wasn't one of the books that Sam took with them. Those books were found the night before Sam left the Wall.

Just some random musing.

[nastydream]

If I was Oberyn Martell I'd kill the Mountain already

If I was Jon I'd have stayed with the Wildlings

if I was Dany I wouldn't spare the Wise Masters of Yunkai and I would have kept Jorah as my advisor and knight.Also I wouldn't have a man like the shavepate as an asset.

[Hanged Black Robin]

If I were Stannis, I would bend the knee to Renly before going to Storm's End and before using any shadow babies. Once joining forces with Renly, he could use a shadow baby to kill Renly in the dead of night while he's sleeping. Stannis can then be the first lord on the scene when Renly is found dead, act distraught and furious at his brother's murder, blame it on the Lannisters (they did the same thing to Bran, right?), etc. Then Stannis offers to set aside Selyse and marry Marg in Renly's place in exchange for their continued support. KL and Tywin's forces are then caught between Stannis and Robb.

[Annara Snow]

If I were Stannis, I would bend the knee to Renly before going to Storm's End and before using any shadow babies. Once joining forces with Renly, he could use a shadow baby to kill Renly in the dead of night while he's sleeping. Stannis can then be the first lord on the scene when Renly is found dead, act distraught and furious at his brother's murder, blame it on the Lannisters (they did the same thing to Bran, right?), etc. Then Stannis offers to set aside Selyse and marry Marg in Renly's place in exchange for their continued support. KL and Tywin's forces are then caught between Stannis and Robb.

And that's why you're not Stannis. ;)

[Pod The Impaler]

If I were Eddard Stark (and this could be a whole thread by itself - matter of fact, I think it actually was once) ...

The Mycah-Lady incident would convince me Sansa must not marry Joffrey.

As soon as things got nasty in King's Landing, I would use my authority as Hand to summon Stannis to the capital, and demand his whole guard accompany him.

I would certainly not let on to any Lannisters, especially Cersei, that I knew about her incest. Not without telling Robert, Renly, and Barristan. Or if I did have to speak it to Cersei, it would be at that moment of confirmation where I arrest her and drag her before the King for judgment.

I would summon Barristan and Renly to Robert's bedchamber as he lay dying, and as he was planning to lay out his last will, tell the king right then, so they all can hear.

If I had to send Sansa and Arya away, I'd pick them up, put them on a boat right away, and pay the captain a bucket of gold to go directly to Winterfell, with only one stop on the way out - Dragonstone.

[nastydream]

And that's why you're not Stannis. ;)

lmao this comment :agree:

[the conquering bastard 25]

Ugh more fanfiction. I'm just going to number this

1)Roose Bolton had an army of foot that had suffered 2,000 odd dead along with the loss of many of it's commanders. He's not marching anywhere

2)The stuff about the crown is fanfiction-we've already established Stannis can't capture Kings Landing-his troops are piss

3)The Tyrells will not back Stannis even if he's king, Stannis would last about 10 minutes in Kings Landing before he has 100,000 troops sieging him, troops that could also crush the northerners if need be

1) No-he had a couple of merchants and men at arms who were captured before they could do anything. Littlefinger and Varys control the city watch, and they would not let Stannis get in the city

2)Something like what? He's going to be facing arrow fire no matter what because the troops would have at least 2-3 days to get ready. Cersei alone has spies on Dragonstone I assume (line about fishing boats with Varys) meaning that she can prepare the troops.

In order for the plan to work you need a complete surprise-like literal suprise but they would have a couple of days to prepare meaning they'd be able to prep archers-Ned said 200 archers could keep back 10,000 men at Moat Cailin I'm sure that 4,000 watch members could beat 4,000 Troops.

A sack is going to happen no matter what-sellswords don't follow Stannis out of love-they follow him out of pocket and they will want their prize..

You sound like one of those generals who says at the start of the war

'lets attack them here and here, and then we've won''. It seems like this plan is similar to the Bay of pigs-you know how that ended up?

War isn't as simple as saying Anvil and Hammer, Robb would have to march his forces down the kingsroads strecthing the supply lines and then engage Tywin in the Crownlands where the Blackfish would be less effect-this would also allows Tywin to use the other vassals (Rosby etc) and use their troops as well. End up starving?

The entire city starves for about the whole of COK and I didn't see anyone selling out Cersei-as I already said, and you've ignored Tommen would be in Rosby-meaning he gets crowned even if Stannis manages to capture the city (which is not going to happen).

Just to make it clear-Stannis doesn't have enough men. He's got 2,000 sellswords, no heavy cavalry and his vassal houses are a joke. I don't think you really understand medival warfare because amphibious warfare didn't work back then-not only would the men route but they'd be at complete risk from a cavarly attack and the majority of the boats would either capsize or sink due to the lack of planning involded. Along with the lack of commanders available means the troops are not going to fight well

Yet sometime's it's not about winning sometimes it's about holding.

All Stannis has to do is hold. He holds the city and waits.

Tywin has to leave Harrenhal to defend his daughter/son and grandchildren.

The defense of KL haven't been in place and Tyrion is trying to get his baring and figure out a plan to defend the city.

Stannis has heard that Robb Stark has crowned himself and has the Kingslayer imprisioned. Meaning that's one less lannister force he's got to contend.

Robb Stark is keeping Tywin locked in the Trident. He's cut him off from the West so long as he sits at RIverrun. Then when Robb does make a move West(where Stannis actually has plenty of time to at least cut off the city from be replenishing itself seeing as Renly cut the city off and supplies via the Rose road. ) That's cutting the city off by land and sea and Stannis is only using his Naval force. Still keeping eyes of the port and activty going on at the mouth(meaning he's getting reports of Tyrion's chain, so he can move his timetable up. Part of the problem with Stannis was that he gave Tyrion too much time to see to KL's defenses and allowed Tywin to regroup, and get fresh troops via the Tyrell/Lannister alliance. Stripe the Tyrells from the equation and it's a different story.

The city was ripe for the taking, it forces Tywin to make the decision, does he have to deal with Stannis in the city and leaving Robb at his rear to catch him with his pants down, under the wall of KL. OR leaving Stannis in the City (allowing Renly time to come to the city and either bend the knee or give pursuit of sacking the Capital.) IF that's the case Tywin's cause is lost because if Stannis doesn't take Joffery's miserable, the Renly with his 100,000 swords will defenitlely finish the Job.

IT's not all about making the moves yourself. Sometimes it's about thinking about what's in the best interest of someone else, maybe even make a move that works against you to force the other player to make the move you need them to make.

Have you ever played a game of chess and had to sacrifice an important piece to lose the battle only to win the war. That's what this move is, it's about appearing to lose the battle to win the war.

Robb Stark wants his vengeance. All Stannis really had to do was hold the city in a state of siege. Tywin comes to save his daughter, and Robb comes to smash Tywin's head open beneath the wall.

From there they either come to an accord or it's warfare. As Robb has more men than Stannis well. Yet there's still King Renly to consider.

As this is a fictional battle with fictional players that never happened and is a what if thought it doesn't matter. Yet I will say this I'm actually a really good strategist. Its all about finding the weak points and doing the cha-cha

[Winterfell is Burning]

If I was Ned, I would impose as a condition to be Hand to pick my own small council. Either Robert accepts it or he picks another Hand.

[Frances Bean Corbray]

If I was Ned, I would impose as a condition to be Hand to pick my own small council. Either Robert accepts it or he picks another Hand.

All-Northman Small Council. :cool4:

Roose Bolton would have to be Master of Whispers. :leaving:

[Lyanna<3Rhaegar]

If I were Sansa I would've left with The Hound.

[HouseSnarke]

If I were Ned I wouldn't have refused Renly's offer of help with Cersei and the kids. He's choosing his own honor over actually putting the rightful person on the throne.

[mb2518]

If I were Kevan Lannister, I tell the messenger that Pycelle can wait.