Queen Ayras Lord Commander Posted July 28, 2014 Share Posted July 28, 2014 Well, even as a bastard, she still sees him as a threat. That's part of her hatred of him. She thinks that her worst fears are realized when Robb says he intends on naming Jon his heir. True, but then he's Ned's bastard. If he's Lyanna's, then technically even Benjen would come before him in succession (obviously if he wasn't in the NW). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Queen Ayras Lord Commander Posted July 28, 2014 Share Posted July 28, 2014 She was more than happy to see him sent off to the Wall because neither Jon nor any of his children would challenge Robb or his children. Again, she thinks he is NED'S child. That all changes if he is a nephew and not a son! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearQueen87 Posted July 28, 2014 Share Posted July 28, 2014 Again, she thinks he is NED'S child. That all changes if he is a nephew and not a son! disagree. If Cat's own children were ever in danger do you think she wouldn't sell Jon out as the son of Rhaegar Targaryen in order to save her own kids? Ned didn't know either hence never telling Cat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Queen Ayras Lord Commander Posted July 28, 2014 Share Posted July 28, 2014 She might have told him that Jon was TPTWP or something, absolutely. It's a question then of would Ned believe it, or does he make a promise to tell Jon someday so that his sister can die in peace and without fear. When he finally gives whatever promise it was, the fear leaves her eyes and she dies. This is excellent. Also gland my inquiry about what Rhaegar told Lyanna interest others. The way Ned was blindsided by Jon wanting to go to the Wall, and Cat and Luwin pushed him, showed he was uneasy tying Rhaegar's son's fate with the NW. However, he couldn't blurt out, "He's the last dragon's last dragon," so to speak. Plus we've seen numerous times that Ned, (and Robb), are shitty politicians. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Queen Ayras Lord Commander Posted July 28, 2014 Share Posted July 28, 2014 disagree. If Cat's own children were ever in danger do you think she wouldn't sell Jon out as the son of Rhaegar Targaryen in order to save her own kids? Ned didn't know either hence never telling Cat. She probably would. Says a lot about her. But she shouldn't fear the fact that Jon's claim would ever be better than her own children. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wmarshal Posted July 28, 2014 Share Posted July 28, 2014 No, Cat isn't evil. No one knew who Jon was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearQueen87 Posted July 28, 2014 Share Posted July 28, 2014 She probably would. Says a lot about her. But she shouldn't fear the fact that Jon's claim would ever be better than her own children. Doesn't matter though because she'd never know who Jon was. She is living with the fear that Jon might try to take WF and Robb's claim. And Robb making Jon his heir is her worst nightmare. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Queen Ayras Lord Commander Posted July 28, 2014 Share Posted July 28, 2014 Doesn't matter though because she'd never know who Jon was. She is living with the fear that Jon might try to take WF and Robb's claim. And Robb making Jon his heir is her worst nightmare. Again, I think we aren't talking about the same things. I'm saying she would know if Ned told her he's his nephew, not his son. This removes her fear, since Jon's claim would be worse then Rickon's or Benjen's (again ignoring the NW part). Also, if she raises him with love and not spite, he'd be even less likely to resent Robb, and want to support him all the more. Her reaction/rage to Robb making Jon his heir in the context of the books ignores everything I am saying. Yes I get her reaction, since Robb is putting Jon ahead of Sansa and Arya, but if she knew, and never harbored all that fear and anger towards Jon, then her reaction might be different. She might even understand (given the absences/"deaths" of Bran and Rickon) that having a male heir, though not of her blood, makes sense, better positions House Stark and respects Weserosi law. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lonin Posted July 28, 2014 Share Posted July 28, 2014 Sorry, not trying to ignore your post in it's entirety, but your first point is something I have a problem with. Aerys no longer trusts Rhaegar (thanks to Varys and hence his actions at the ToH). I can't see this paranoid fuck giving his KG to anyone, especially the man he thinks will betray and replace him. Perhaps this mistrust is overstated. As you note the KG serve the King, if Aerys did not trust Rhaegar he could have recalled the KG. He didn't, might be he trusts Rhaegar a little. Aery's is the King, he can name a new heir and Crown Prince. He didn't, might be he trusts Rhaegar more than some people think. I think the 3 KG at the ToJ remain loyal to their vows and oaths. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wmarshal Posted July 28, 2014 Share Posted July 28, 2014 He told Whitebull to collect Rhaegar, that is it, they don't have, in their code, the right to listen to Rhaegar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Leftwich Posted July 28, 2014 Share Posted July 28, 2014 He told Whitebull to collect Rhaegar, that is it, they don't have, in their code, the right to listen to Rhaegar. If Aerys gave it, they would. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearQueen87 Posted July 28, 2014 Share Posted July 28, 2014 Again, I think we aren't talking about the same things. I'm saying she would know if Ned told her he's his nephew, not his son. This removes her fear, since Jon's claim would be worse then Rickon's or Benjen's (again ignoring the NW part). Also, if she raises him with love and not spite, he'd be even less likely to resent Robb, and want to support him all the more. Her reaction/rage to Robb making Jon his heir in the context of the books ignores everything I am saying. Yes I get her reaction, since Robb is putting Jon ahead of Sansa and Arya, but if she knew, and never harbored all that fear and anger towards Jon, then her reaction might be different. She might even understand (given the absences/"deaths" of Bran and Rickon) that having a male heir, though not of her blood, makes sense, better positions House Stark and respects Weserosi law. I see what you're saying now. I'm just not sure if I agree 100% Would Cat be more likely to love Jon had she known he wasn't Ned's bastard; maybe yes. I think she'd still do her best to make sure he could never inherit WF. Still maybe encourage him to take the black, for instance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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