Jump to content

How will they condense FFC and DWD into Season 5? (book spoilers)


tblackjacks

Recommended Posts

I think by condensing two big books into ten episodes is already dammed risky, and if their cutting/condensing policy is not shit hot they will seriously alienate a lot of book readers as the show could become so far disconnected from the books it just starts to feel wrong.

There's a limit to what you cut before the remaining characters start to feel out of place because you can't relate to what you know should be happening.

I think S1 did a great job at condensing a book into a single series. Sure it missed out the battles but cut had all the relevant plot arcs and goings on so it was a pretty good adaption.

The most recent seasons are getting more and more detached from the source, because either the timescale/number of seasons is forcing things to be cut or because the writers really don't have a grasp on the importance of the plot points at this stage. Are they just picking their favourite bits to make a rough approximation of the story?

I mean if we are going to get a story that's cut to pieces then let's just cut to the chase and have Danny invade this season and get straight to dealing with the threat north of the wall. We all know that there is going to be some serious conflict soon, let's just cut to it rather than massacre the renaming books with a shoddy adaption.

Stepping back for a minute if GRRM had stuck to his original 3 book plan, do you think we would have got 4 Iron islands POV, or Quentyn POV, the entire fake Aegon storyline?, Brienne's protracted tour of the riverlands. I very much doubt it, we would have got a tight focused story based around the characters we were introduced to in book 1.

We might end up getting an adaption of the story GOT would have been if GRRM had kept going at the same pace he did in ASOS. Rather than thinking up ways to delay the story they will be thinking of ways to progress it, while still keeping as faithful to the books as possible for the core characters.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

But do you not think that certain aspects of the first 4 seasons have been really drawn out and others condensed. Yet they are now on a mission to seriously squeeze the remaining 2-4 books into an even smaller space.

I mean it took all of S4 to get through the Tyrion trial plot arc, something they could have done in half the episodes. But yet they cut down the arc where Danny conquers Astapor and Yunkai into barely a handfull of rushed scenes in a few episodes.

It just feels to me at least that their policy of where to condense or expand on things is not well planned and will seriously piss off a large amount of the readbase when they see the mess at the end.

What I see potentially happening with GOT is like if they made the first 2 LOTR movies 3hrs each and then finished it off with a 30min tv movie for the last third of the story. That would have been crap.

They run the risk of squeezing it so much it just spoils the story and is out of sync with the other half of the saga.

I know a lot of people thought the last 2 books were a bit too spread out, some parts were i'll admit. But I think cutting too much and you loose the very nature of what was going on in those 2 books. They are a transition period in the series, between the orignial charcaters who are mostly killed off by then and the new powers comming into play so some level of world building was required. The problem with getting everyone to Danny was always going to exist, she was too young at the start of the saga, her dragons were born too late and the world that everyone lives in too large for speedy travel.

Of all the original POV characters only Ned & catelyn were killed off by the end of ASOS, and even her not for good. The rest are often only just coming into their own but can seem at times to be relegated to being supporting characters in their own story.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well by orignial characters i don't just mean the POV ones. By the stage we are at Book/TV wise you have Robert, Ned, Cat, Rob, Lysa, Joffrey, Tywin all dead. That's most of the original group of players in the game.


You then move on to a new group, the Iron Islands, Dorne, Braavos. I've always felt that by the start of AFFC the game has changed significantly, the people who think they have the power in the first 3 books (Cersei etc) are loosing control and the new players on the scene are more powerful and willing to go to great lengths for their goals.



I think the newer groups of characters should have just as much screen time as the old dead ones had, to flesh out their plots and to do justice to the books. By rushing through the last 4 books in the same time period you just spent to cover 3, especially now the story is really expanding seems like a step backwards to me.



There's condensing material and then there's just butchering it in order to keep to a network schedule.


That's my biggest concern, we're going to get a rushed job for the last half of the book series because the writers are being forced into only 7 seasons. If all the books were only one section that would probably work. But at least 2 have been in two parts (each as big as the first book in the series) and they have already used each "part" of a book for a season each. We could potentially look at WOW and DOS being in 2 parts each, that could be the equivalent of 4 GOT books in the last part of the series. I think getting that fitted into a 7 season run would result in an terrible end to the adaption.


Link to comment
Share on other sites

They covered quite a lot this season, and even into the next books with several characters. I think they are doing fine and don't need to worry about fitting the books exactly into certain seasons.

They are doing alright. I would have preceded with three differently but season 4 was fine. They did cover affc for sansa but stannis davos and jon are still in ASOS. Idk there is a lot to do. Stannis will be appearing a lot this season so they could catch up by episode 3.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

But do you not think that certain aspects of the first 4 seasons have been really drawn out and others condensed. Yet they are now on a mission to seriously squeeze the remaining 2-4 books into an even smaller space.

I mean it took all of S4 to get through the Tyrion trial plot arc, something they could have done in half the episodes. But yet they cut down the arc where Danny conquers Astapor and Yunkai into barely a handfull of rushed scenes in a few episodes.

It just feels to me at least that their policy of where to condense or expand on things is not well planned and will seriously piss off a large amount of the readbase when they see the mess at the end.

What I see potentially happening with GOT is like if they made the first 2 LOTR movies 3hrs each and then finished it off with a 30min tv movie for the last third of the story. That would have been crap.

They run the risk of squeezing it so much it just spoils the story and is out of sync with the other half of the saga.

I know a lot of people thought the last 2 books were a bit too spread out, some parts were i'll admit. But I think cutting too much and you loose the very nature of what was going on in those 2 books. They are a transition period in the series, between the orignial charcaters who are mostly killed off by then and the new powers comming into play so some level of world building was required. The problem with getting everyone to Danny was always going to exist, she was too young at the start of the saga, her dragons were born too late and the world that everyone lives in too large for speedy travel.

That's just what they have to do so that the right characters are emphasized at the right times. Some characters who are never given a POV in the books have to be fleshed out in the show and some characters with POVs have shit all to do for chapter upon chapter so they are cut down. It's all about making it work onscreen. No, they are not always successful, but they are successful more times than not.

I'm not at all worried about next season, and in fact, I'm very interested to see how they proceed.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well how many chapters does each character have left before the show is caught up with the books


Sansa has 1 Chapter left in AFFC, but will go into WOW territory


Bran has 1 Chapter left in ADWD, but will go into WOW territory


Theon has 5 Chapters left in ADWD


Tyrion has 12 Chapters in ADWD


Arya has 5 Chapters (AFFC + ADWD)


Jon has 1 Chapter left in ASOS and 13 Chapters in ADWD (Has the most storyline left)


Cersei has 12 Chapters (AFFC + ADWD)


Jaime has 8 Chapters (AFFC + ADWD), but he is most likely going to Dorne, so it will be more deviations


Brienne has yeah I have no idea, more deviations there


Daenerys has 8 Chapters left in ADWD


Davos has 4 Chapters in ADWD


Sam has 5 Chapters in AFFC


Barristan has 4 Chapters in ADWD


Melisandre has 1 Chapter in ADWD


Dorne and the Ironborn - I'm not sure


Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well how many chapters does each character have left before the show is caught up with the books

Sansa has 1 Chapter left in AFFC, but will go into WOW territory

Bran has 1 Chapter left in ADWD, but will go into WOW territory

Theon has 5 Chapters left in ADWD

Tyrion has 12 Chapters in ADWD

Arya has 5 Chapters (AFFC + ADWD)

Jon has 1 Chapter left in ASOS and 13 Chapters in ADWD (Has the most storyline left)

Cersei has 12 Chapters (AFFC + ADWD)

Jaime has 8 Chapters (AFFC + ADWD), but he is most likely going to Dorne, so it will be more deviations

Brienne has yeah I have no idea, more deviations there

Daenerys has 8 Chapters left in ADWD

Davos has 4 Chapters in ADWD

Sam has 5 Chapters in AFFC

Barristan has 4 Chapters in ADWD

Melisandre has 1 Chapter in ADWD

Dorne and the Ironborn - I'm not sure

Sansa and bran would be easy. if they only show up twice Jon should be finished by the end. theon and asha will have an easy merge. Dany should have a lot cut. her and barristan will mash together for a few and Brienne will be had. Mel will prob just get her stuff thrown in with jon stannis davos Cersei and Jamie will interesting. very interesting.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Sansa and bran would be easy. if they only show up twice Jon should be finished by the end. theon and asha will have an easy merge. Dany should have a lot cut. her and barristan will mash together for a few and Brienne will be had. Mel will prob just get her stuff thrown in with jon stannis davos Cersei and Jamie will interesting. very interesting.

I think Dany's storyline will probably be in about 7 to 8 Episodes and most likely end with her meeting the Khalasar. They should just condense the whole damn thing and have her sail for Westeros in the finale, but that won't happen. Yeah the wall and the north will have a lot of focus in Season 5 with more main characters there now (Jon, Stannis, Melisandre, Davos, Tormund, Theon, Ramsay, Sam, Gilly) while King's Landing has only 4 main characters now (Cersei, Jaime, Maragery, and Bronn). Tyrion will be in Pentos with Varys and meet Jorah in Volantis. I'm excited for Arya's storyline in Braavos, because we haven't really had a true introduction to the city and its culture despite the Iron Bank Scene with Stannis and Davos. I could see Littlefinger and Sansa appearing in more than two episodes tho, but probably four or five at the max.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well by orignial characters i don't just mean the POV ones. By the stage we are at Book/TV wise you have Robert, Ned, Cat, Rob, Lysa, Joffrey, Tywin all dead. That's most of the original group of players in the game.

You then move on to a new group, the Iron Islands, Dorne, Braavos. I've always felt that by the start of AFFC the game has changed significantly, the people who think they have the power in the first 3 books (Cersei etc) are loosing control and the new players on the scene are more powerful and willing to go to great lengths for their goals.

I think the newer groups of characters should have just as much screen time as the old dead ones had, to flesh out their plots and to do justice to the books. By rushing through the last 4 books in the same time period you just spent to cover 3, especially now the story is really expanding seems like a step backwards to me.

There's condensing material and then there's just butchering it in order to keep to a network schedule.

That's my biggest concern, we're going to get a rushed job for the last half of the book series because the writers are being forced into only 7 seasons. If all the books were only one section that would probably work. But at least 2 have been in two parts (each as big as the first book in the series) and they have already used each "part" of a book for a season each. We could potentially look at WOW and DOS being in 2 parts each, that could be the equivalent of 4 GOT books in the last part of the series. I think getting that fitted into a 7 season run would result in an terrible end to the adaption.

Any good fantasy series should be, IMO, primarily about the characters you are introduced to early in the series. Given that all of these characters are already part of the show the demands of TV, in terms of budget and cast size, mean that the show has no choice but to follow a more streamlined approached.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It's funny how people complain about AFFC and ADWD being too boring and introducing too many characters, but also complain when the show changes parts of them. :lol:



I don't mind any changes they make, as I've never been particular about any adaptation following its original works exactly.



Condensing the two books into one season won't give a rushed feel, as the books should never have been divided up at all. Had the two been one book, it would have been pretty good (though still lacking due to the plethora of cliffhangers). However, as they are now, they are too bloated, horribly paced and barely qualify as finished products. Many things that were given a POV didn't need one. Many chapters were dedicated to illustrate themes so many times that they became redundant. The books can and should be condensed imo.


Link to comment
Share on other sites

Still Tyrion said in Season 2: Episode 3 when he was talking to Pycelle about forming an alliance with House Martell that "Princess Myrcella will marry their YOUNGEST SON when she comes of age. So Trystane can't be the only son of Doran in the tv series, otherwise this is a huge inconsistency.

"huge"??? It would be noticed by about 5% of viewers and they'd shrug if off just as the shrugged off the recasts of Dario and Gregor. The latter were inconsistencies _on the screen_ one couldn't help noticing, and the uproar ... wasn't. A few book purists might whine about that line and be ridiculed for it. Because, "House Martell" had at least 3 sons when that line was uttered: Doran, Oberyn, Tristane. There's no inconsistency.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think Dany's storyline will probably be in about 7 to 8 Episodes and most likely end with her meeting the Khalasar. They should just condense the whole damn thing and have her sail for Westeros in the finale, but that won't happen. Yeah the wall and the north will have a lot of focus in Season 5 with more main characters there now (Jon, Stannis, Melisandre, Davos, Tormund, Theon, Ramsay, Sam, Gilly) while King's Landing has only 4 main characters now (Cersei, Jaime, Maragery, and Bronn). Tyrion will be in Pentos with Varys and meet Jorah in Volantis. I'm excited for Arya's storyline in Braavos, because we haven't really had a true introduction to the city and its culture despite the Iron Bank Scene with Stannis and Davos. I could see Littlefinger and Sansa appearing in more than two episodes tho, but probably four or five at the max.

I think 6 would be fine for dany. I noticed that emila Clarke is starting to get more critism and they need to relax her for a season. I am stilled annoyed with Stannis and the iron bank but whatever its done now. I agree arya will be fun. Kl should still get 4. Sansa might be better off with only 2 or 3. They have so mmuch in the north to catch up on. Bran will also be interesting. I don't think we are ggoing to get all of danys big moments either. The pit is most likely

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think we will get more Wall because it has the most storyline left and a new influx of characters will make it interesting this season. I can see them cutting down on Dany and Tyrion somewhat to give more room for the Wall, since they don't have quite as much to do.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well how many chapters does each character have left before the show is caught up with the books

Sansa has 1 Chapter left in AFFC, but will go into WOW territory

Bran has 1 Chapter left in ADWD, but will go into WOW territory

Theon has 5 Chapters left in ADWD

Tyrion has 12 Chapters in ADWD

Arya has 5 Chapters (AFFC + ADWD)

Jon has 1 Chapter left in ASOS and 13 Chapters in ADWD (Has the most storyline left)

Cersei has 12 Chapters (AFFC + ADWD)

Jaime has 8 Chapters (AFFC + ADWD), but he is most likely going to Dorne, so it will be more deviations

Brienne has yeah I have no idea, more deviations there

Daenerys has 8 Chapters left in ADWD

Davos has 4 Chapters in ADWD

Sam has 5 Chapters in AFFC

Barristan has 4 Chapters in ADWD

Melisandre has 1 Chapter in ADWD

Dorne and the Ironborn - I'm not sure

Cersei had 12 chapters?

Wow I remember starting those and skipping forward because I found half those chapters uninteresting.

All the stuff in KL I found underwhelming.

Sam's five could have been cut to two.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Cersei had 12 chapters?

Wow I remember starting those and skipping forward because I found half those chapters uninteresting.

All the stuff in KL I found underwhelming.

Sam's five could have been cut to two.

I would agree Sam could have been cut to two (and Brienne's halved) but I always found Cersei one of the highlights of AFFC

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I could see Cersei being in at least 8 or 9 Episodes based on the source material. The main highlights of Cersei's chapters are:


A Feast For Crows


Cersei waking up to her father's death and Tywin's Funeral


Cersei ordering the burning of the Tower of the Hand


Tommen and Margaery's Wedding (A small affair)


Maggy the Frog and Cersei's Prophecy


Cersei plotting to remove Margaery as Queen (Let the accusations begin)


Cersei's small council meetings (Kevan, Mace, etc.)


Cersei meeting with the High Sparrow


Cersei sleeping with people to get what she wants (They haven't really showed this except with Lancel)


Cersei's true intensions with Margaery and they are both arrested


Cersei is abused in the black cells and fights with Margaery



A Dance with Dragons


Cersei learns that Margaery has been released and decides to confess to the High Sparrow


Cersei learns of her daughter Myrcella's fate in Dorne from Kevan


Cersei is shaved before being forced to a penance walk (Walk of Shame)


Cersei is then introduced to Ser Robert the Strong, her champion in the trial by combat


Link to comment
Share on other sites

I would agree Sam could have been cut to two (and Brienne's halved) but I always found Cersei one of the highlights of AFFC

I find that George, on the page, can make almost anything interesting, but the multitude of story in Feast and Crows just did not engage me and I thought it could have been halved.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I paraphrased this from awoiaf but I think this is a good outline for Cersei's storyline in Season 5, if they stay true to the books.



Cersei finds out that Tywin was murdered and feels she has the opportunity to prove herself to be an even better ruler than her father. After Tywin’s funeral and Tommen’s Wedding, Cersei decides to burn the Tower of the Hand. Cersei even grows more apprehensive about Maggy the Frog's Prophecy casted upon her during childhood. She begins her new regime by giving positions on the small council to her own supporters. She becomes troubled by the nightmares of Tyrion’s escape and the Iron Throne consuming her. Cersei grows to suspect that her powerful Tyrell allies, now relatives through Tommen’s marriage to Margaery, are trying to seize control of the Kingdom. Cersei begins a campaign to intrigue to remove all the Tyrell’s from positions of influence and authority in King’s Landing. She becomes a companion and confidant of Taena who tells her that her maid Senelle is spying on her for Margaery. Cersei then gives Senelle to Qyburn for his twisted experiments. Cersei grows paranoid and tells Jaime to rescue Myrcella from Dorne, as they loathe the Lannisters even more for Oberyn’s death. Once she sends Jaime away, Cersei begins to anger the Iron Bank of Braavos and the Faith of the Seven for refusing to honor the debts owned by the Crown.



Economic chaos occurs throughout the seven kingdoms and Cersei decides to send Balon Swann on a secret mission including delivering the head of the Mountain to Dorne and inviting Prince Doran to sit on the small council. In an attempt to lighten the crown’s debt situation, gain the Faith’s blessing, and gain more protection from her enemies, Cersei allows the High Sparrow to revive the Faith Militant. Cersei also tries to manipulate Falyse Stokeworth into killing Tyrion’s friend Bronn, who is also Falyse’s brother-in-law. The plan fails and Cersei sends Falyse to Qyburn for a death treatment. After nights of more heavily drinking, Cersei plans a plot to frame Margaery for adultery and treason. Margaery is arrested which makes Cersei happy, but she tells the population that she wishes Margaery be released. However, the plan backfires when the High Sparrow arrests Cersei making Kevan Lannister the new regent. Accused of capital crimes, Cersei’s only hope is in a kingsguard champion.



Cersei remains a prisoner of the faith for weeks, but is allowed visitors after confessing to the High Septon that she had relations with Lancel and the Kettleblack brothers. Yet, Cersei also continues to deny that she had nothing to do with King Robert’s death. She also learns that Margaery has been released since the evidence against her is weak. The High Septon agrees to allow Cersei one visitor a day. Cersei learns from Kevan about Myrcella’s fate in Dorne and that the faith is requiring her to a penance walk from the Great Sept of Baelor to the Red Keep. Cersei is shaved and stripped naked and performs her walk of Shame realizing that there are no Lannisters there to support her. Cersei hears and sees the taunting and glaring crowd, who has come to see her shame. Eventually, Cersei breaks down in tears and is then carried into the Red Keep by Qyburn’s great experiment, Ser Robert Strong.


Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

×
×
  • Create New...