Tyrion1991 Posted July 29, 2014 Share Posted July 29, 2014 It all but guarantees that Young Griff and the Aegon plot will be included. They are mentioned several times in season 4. - Davos to Stannis as a possible mercenary company to hire. - Jorah is suddenly made a member of the Golden Company. Remember that Jorah was hired by Illyrio to protect Dany so this connection is even more explicit and telling. - Jorah being a member of the GC is probably going to be used on the show to explain why he was in Volantis. Which, if you remember, is where Tyrion gets abducted by him after he is brought there by Aegon n co. None of these links are ever mentioned and Jorah being a GC member is an invention of the show. All this suggests the GC being in and since their main function is to serve as the army of Aegon then he will be included on the show. So I think people are really jumping the gun with the Arriane casting cut. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chebyshov Posted July 29, 2014 Share Posted July 29, 2014 The Tysha precedent: just because something is mentioned to us on the show does not mean that it will be amount to anything. Based on the mentioned "Tysha" character who has 1 mention in Season 1, 1 mention in Season 2, and 2 mentions in Season 3, yet did not amount to anything in the end, with Shae cannibalizing her function. This isn't to say that Aegon won't be in, but it is to say that we can no longer use the logic "well they mentioned X, so Y" in terms of predictions for the show. This could have been fan service, or they could be setting up the GC to be Dany's. We really have little to no way of knowing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jentario Posted July 29, 2014 Share Posted July 29, 2014 The Tysha precedent: just because something is mentioned to us on the show does not mean that it will be amount to anything. Based on the mentioned "Tysha" character who has 1 mention in Season 1, 1 mention in Season 2, and 2 mentions in Season 3, yet did not amount to anything in the end, with Shae cannibalizing her function. This isn't to say that Aegon won't be in, but it is to say that we can no longer use the logic "well they mentioned X, so Y" in terms of predictions for the show. This could have been fan service, or they could be setting up the GC to be Dany's. We really have little to no way of knowing. Tysha is very different from the Golden Company- Tysha is a character that would never show up in the show, only mentioned. The cutting of her involvement from the finale was most likely an organic, unplanned move by D&D (they specifically stated that she didn't fit into season 4 in a reasonable way in the Comic Con panel). Tysha is a character that creates a situation that can be created without her and while staying relatively close to the books, as seen in season 4. On the other hand, the Golden Company imply a whole new storyline, a bunch of really important characters that DO show up and DO have an impact on the story going forward. It's as if the show would mention the Wildlings in season one and then decide to cut that entire storyline from the show. They must have planned that much ahead of season 4, especially considering it was after their in-depth conversation with GRRM. Very different. With that said, that doesn't secure Aegon's inclusion in the show. So far, there's no real evidence that points to him being included in the show and that's very worrying. There's also the option that the Golden Company will be included without Aegon in some way (for instance if Gendry or Trystane replace Aegon and they decide to hire the Golden Company). So maybe next year we can set a new precedent, the Golden Company Precedent, that these mentions don't really mean anything. We'll see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chebyshov Posted July 29, 2014 Share Posted July 29, 2014 All the Tysha Precedent really means is there's now a level of uncertainty that we all have with the writers that we didn't before. They are very, very different situations, I agree, but the argument "it was mentioned/shown to us/referenced, so therefore it will appear/matter" doesn't hold up on its own anymore. I suppose we may switch it to the Manderly Pin Precedent if Wyman is cut, because the Tysha situation is so unique...we'll have to see. But I also don't think the writers are above petty fan-service (see Daario's blue rose for Dany), so the GC name-drop could be something or nothing. For Aegon himself, as you noted, the mention of the GC doesn't mean they'll automatically be linked to the Griffs. Keep in mind, Aegon wasn't name dropped when he easily could have been (Oberyn explaining to Tyrion what happened to Elia and her children). We shall see :dunno:. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cxvb Posted July 29, 2014 Share Posted July 29, 2014 What is the difference between "petty fan-service" and references that make the world richer and are not necessarily relevant to the plot of the show? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jentario Posted July 29, 2014 Share Posted July 29, 2014 All the Tysha Precedent really means is there's now a level of uncertainty that we all have with the writers that we didn't before. They are very, very different situations, I agree, but the argument "it was mentioned/shown to us/referenced, so therefore it will appear/matter" doesn't hold up on its own anymore. I suppose we may switch it to the Manderly Pin Precedent if Wyman is cut, because the Tysha situation is so unique...we'll have to see. But I also don't think the writers are above petty fan-service (see Daario's blue rose for Dany), so the GC name-drop could be something or nothing. For Aegon himself, as you noted, the mention of the GC doesn't mean they'll automatically be linked to the Griffs. Keep in mind, Aegon wasn't name dropped when he easily could have been (Oberyn explaining to Tyrion what happened to Elia and her children). We shall see :dunno:. The fact that they reduced that Manderly's intended role and removed his speaking lines might mean that they decided to cut Manderly after they cast the actor and had the costume made and in any case that was two seasons ago (a lot can change in two seasons, less in one) unlike the Golden Company. So I think we should wait and see if the Golden Company will become a precendent rather than Manderly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chebyshov Posted July 29, 2014 Share Posted July 29, 2014 What is the difference between "petty fan-service" and references that make the world richer and are not necessarily relevant to the plot of the show? Perspective. Did a guy wearing a pin in the background make the world richer, or was it a nod to book readers, but of little importance? Probably not mutually exclusive categories, when you get down to it. The fact that they reduced that Manderly's intended role and removed his speaking lines might mean that they decided to cut Manderly after they cast the actor and had the costume made and in any case that was two seasons ago (a lot can change in two seasons, less in one) unlike the Golden Company. So I think we should wait and see if the Golden Company will become a precendent rather than Manderly. Really any of these things just means that we should adopt a "wait and see" attitude in general. The show is very carefully planned, but not every single line is going to pan out the way we think. I do think the GC mentions were particularly conspicuous, especially given that they both happened a year before their likely introduction, but we won't know for sure if there will be a payoff until next season. And certainly won't know what that means for the Shy Maid passengers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Debt Lannister Posted July 29, 2014 Share Posted July 29, 2014 Also, let's not forget the (unoffical) Lady Stoneheart precedent : namedrop Catelyn Stark in 8 episodes on season 4, keep the BwB, show Beric's resuscitation, develop Brienne and Cat's relationship, keep Brienne's oath, her travels and the sword Oathkeeper... And still it seems we won't get LSH. That being sad, of course we might still get fAegon (I surely hope so!). But don't keep your hopes high. I did it on season 4, and well... Simply writing all the evidence I had to root for LSH hurt me already ;( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyrion1991 Posted July 29, 2014 Author Share Posted July 29, 2014 Wow it got approved. The difference is that the Golden Company wasn't just mentioned and mentioned a series before it should be introduced in the books. But they also changed a detail of Jorahs background and hes a character whose story does intersect closely with Tyrion after he meets Aegon. If they were going to join Daenerys then they could use the Windblown to fulfil that role much more faithfully than the GC who are likely to be enemies of Daenerys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Pounce FTW Posted July 29, 2014 Share Posted July 29, 2014 Also, let's not forget the (unoffical) Lady Stoneheart precedent : namedrop Catelyn Stark in 8 episodes on season 4, keep the BwB, show Beric's resuscitation, develop Brienne and Cat's relationship, keep Brienne's oath, her travels and the sword Oathkeeper... And still it seems we won't get LSH.That being sad, of course we might still get fAegon (I surely hope so!). But don't keep your hopes high. I did it on season 4, and well... Simply writing all the evidence I had to root for LSH hurt me already ;( I don't know if it's fair to say that naming Cat was setting up LS. There were other things setting that up, however, she's the mother of all the Stark kids who are all big characters with povs, save Rickon, and she was murdered. Her name will be mentioned just like Ned's name is mentioned and Tywin's name will be mentioned. That's not enough to say she's being set up to return. That said, I do think we have a good chance of seeing Aegon but I think the biggest factor for that is how his story ends. As it is for LS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Debt Lannister Posted July 30, 2014 Share Posted July 30, 2014 I don't know if it's fair to say that naming Cat was setting up LS. There were other things setting that up, however, she's the mother of all the Stark kids who are all big characters with povs, save Rickon, and she was murdered. Her name will be mentioned just like Ned's name is mentioned and Tywin's name will be mentioned. That's not enough to say she's being set up to return. That said, I do think we have a good chance of seeing Aegon but I think the biggest factor for that is how his story ends. As it is for LS.Name dropping her alone wouldn't, I agree, but I listed more factors than just that. And I agree with what you said, Ser: the biggest factor for seeing them is their endgames. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Pounce FTW Posted July 30, 2014 Share Posted July 30, 2014 Name dropping her alone wouldn't, I agree, but I listed more factors than just that. And I agree with what you said, Ser: the biggest factor for seeing them is their endgames. But why are people assuming that if the BwB are in the story, it is foreshadowing for LS? They don't exist because of her, they were already doing things before she met up with them. And many of the BwB left after Beric "died." So saying there was the BwB so there will be LS is not at all a direct link. As for why Beric has shown how resurrection works, that seems to be pointing to Jon although I really hope that's not what will happen to him. Finally, why not show Brienne's oath to Cat? It was a good scene for both characters but much more about Brienne's character arc and growth. Her keeping her oath to Cat has nothing to do with LS. I know LS is a favorite for some but she really is not required for Brienne to reflect on her oath to Cat. So I really don't think there is any LS precedent and it doesn't reflect whether Aegon will be featured or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chebyshov Posted July 30, 2014 Share Posted July 30, 2014 The talk of precedents isn't to say that "well, because wasn't in, then this won't happen" or so on; it's just to point out that the writers can be inconsistent at times, and that name-drops should be taken with a grain of salt. I sincerely hope the GC is still in, though I don't think their inclusion is necessarily tied to Aegon, who like I said, was rather conspicuously not mentioned by name. Changing Jorah's backstory is making me wonder if they're going to take over the role of the Book!Second Sons and be the sellswords that Tyrion and Jorah join. Why they didn't call the Show!Second Sons "The Stormcrows" in the first place is beyond me, but it's not like the names matter hugely anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonCon's Red Beard Posted August 2, 2014 Share Posted August 2, 2014 The mention of the GC existz only to torture me and tease my already broken heart, really. This is one thing I didn't like about this season, all of the good things mentioned but that only stayed that: mentioned. Oberyn talked about Rhaegar ONCE, and never again. Joffrey mentioned Arthur Dayne ONCE, and never again. Bronn mentioned Tyrion was married... and nothing happened. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RooseIsLoose Posted August 5, 2014 Share Posted August 5, 2014 I believe that Aegon and (possibly) JonCon will be featured. As others have mentioned this is different to the Tysha precedent, Tysha was a story mentioned way back in Season 1 when they probably hadn't mapped this far ahead. Having mentioned the Golden Company numerous times during Season 4 (with surely the plans for Season 5 outlined) it must mean they will have some significance in the next seasin. And without Aegon the GC serve little purpose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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