NFL 2014: Preseason Edition

[Mexal]

Go check the sports science. He has better velocity and is slightly more accurate. Their deep ball is fairly similar. I love how people forget that JM was the most accurate D1 QB in the pocket at 73%.

Oh I see. I didn't realize that throwing in a controlled setting is the same thing as throwing in a game with players around you. My fault.

[Queen Ayras Lord Commander]

The Browns can't catch a break even in make believe land...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MWfcJB5ZF2Y

video uses foul language...

One of the best Madden clips ever. Reminds me in Madden 08 when I won 77-3 Raiders v Pats against a friend. He broke my fucking remote. Also, even in video games, Cleveland can't win a title. HA!

Oh I see. I didn't realize that throwing in a controlled setting is the same thing as throwing in a game with players around you. My fault.

What? People wrongly question his pocket passing, when it was better than any D1 QB. How is throwing in the pocket a controlled setting?

[Mexal]

What? People wrongly question his pocket passing, when it was better than any D1 QB. How is throwing in the pocket a controlled setting?

I take it that had nothing to do with both starting tackles being top 6 picks and the starting LT now who was their LG is going to be a top 10 pick. And nothing to do with him just throwing the ball up for Evans. Nope, all Manziel being amazingly accurate. So much so he's better than Wilson.

[Queen Ayras Lord Commander]

I take it that had nothing to do with both starting tackles being top 6 picks and the starting LT now who was their LG is going to be a top 10 pick. And nothing to do with him just throwing the ball up for Evans. Nope, all Manziel being amazingly accurate. So much so he's better than Wilson.

Yes he had pieces around him. Like almost every good QB. But did you watch any of his games? The pocket broken down a lot, so he had to improvise a lot. When he had good protection, he was really good. When Peyton, Tom and Aaron have had great lines, they've been dominate. When they haven't they've still been great, but could struggle. Now, JM isn't in their league, but your criticism seems rather unfair. And every analyst whose been knocking JM has also said the Browns line is trash, and they have a great LT.

My point is JM is accurate, has good velocity, and a quick release. These are all good starting points. He needs better coaching and a system he can work in. I doubt he will get that in Cleveland.

Also, again, go check out the sports science comparison with JM and RW. It makes JM look like a god. I just can't find the link for you. It's about 4-5 months old, FYI.

[James Arryn]

You guys are getting a little personally invested in a very abstract discussion. I am going to have to award this to Mexal for 2 reasons:

1) QALC is more guilty of breaking the unilateral rule I created/broke which no one is upholding.

2) QALC just made the most bizarre political argument I've seen in a while in another thread. (The daughter is reasonably hot, the mother is not, and so points deducted on your scouting ability, which applied here means RW>J8B.)

[Queen Ayras Lord Commander]

You guys are getting a little personally invested in a very abstract discussion. I am going to have to award this to Mexal for 2 reasons:

1) QALC is more guilty of breaking the unilateral rule I created/broke which no one is upholding.

2) QALC just made the most bizarre political argument I've seen in a while in another thread. (The daughter is reasonably hot, the mother is not, and so points deducted on your scouting ability, which applied here means RW>J8B.)

Lol. To your second point. I made several statements. I then said plus he's got a super hot wife and daughter, just because I felt like saying Abby Huntsman is hot. Sorry...

Please explain point one more!

And again, by the numbers JM is a better all around QB prospect than RW. The fact that RW just won the SB kind of crushes that point, but sports science is still on my side.

EDIT: What happened to no Messi on Messi crime?

[Jace, Extat]

Jonathan Manziel is not half the QB that Russell Wilson is.

And I fucking loathe Russell Wilson.

I hate the way he avoids turnovers.

I hate the way he is literally untackle-ab-le in the backfield.

I hate the way his receivers all suck until the scramble kicks in.

I hate the way he hands off to the most physical RB in the game.

And I hate the way people want to crown him.

Jonathan would be lucky if I hated him for 2 out of the above 5.

[Queen Ayras Lord Commander]

Jonathan Manziel is not half the QB that Russell Wilson is.

And I fucking loathe Russell Wilson.

I hate the way he avoids turnovers.

I hate the way he is literally untackle-ab-le in the backfield.

I hate the way his receivers all suck until the scramble kicks in.

I hate the way he hands off to the most physical RB in the game.

And I hate the way people want to crown him.

Jonathan would be lucky if I hated him for 2 out of the above 5.

Lol. Again, sports science. RW biggest problem is he stares his WR down like no one I've ever seen and then lofts the ball to them. I don't get how DBs don't just sit on him. He is only good on the move. I think JM is a 20-32 QB at this point, but RW isn't better than a top 15 QB. With an average D that team goes 5-11, tops.

[James Arryn]

Lol. To your second point. I made several statements. I then said plus he's got a super hot wife and daughter, just because I felt like saying Abby Huntsman is hot. Sorry...

Please explain point one more!

And again, by the numbers JM is a better all around QB prospect than RW. The fact that RW just won the SB kind of crushes that point, but sports science is still on my side.

EDIT: What happened to no Messi on Messi crime?

Point 1 is my no J8B unless he does something especially noteworthy rule, which I am pretty sure I broke in my subsequent post anyways, as is everyone else, but I gotta draw a line (zing!) or else it's chaos.

Sports science is tricky, because there are so many rubrics. Motor skills: baseball. Linear athleticism: football. Integrated athleticism: basketball. But QB is a sort of hybrid. J8B might spike higher than RW on some metrics, I honestly don't know, but for example accuracy has a lot to do with reading your receiver, reading the defender, and anticipating the window, as opposed to tire excel isles. Not sure how it was evaluated on the show you watched.

As far as Wilson zeroing, yeah I guess it's an issue, but 1 advantage he and Kaep have had is realistic play action on a lot of plays, after which you're not really trying to beat anyone with your eyes, you're just waiting for your spot, so maybe that's a lot of what you've seen? Dunno, as a Niners fan I kinda hand in my objectivity card at the door on this subject.

I apologize for the Messi on Messi crime. :( I hereby deduct points for myself and sentence myself to opening up about the next MILF thought that passes my mind, however embarrassing. My gf was raving about the Modern Family woman being incredibly hot for 50+ until we realized she'd added a decade, and before her hotness was so annoyingly ubiquitous whenever the television is on.

Just checked, and Diane Lane is literally 49, so my answer is pending.

[Jaime L]

Jury is not really out on Kelly. He's already had one assistant hired away, his practice methodology is already spreading around the nfl and everyone seems to love his style - even his first skeptics.

That being said it's small sample size theater. Carroll, harbaugh and Kelly could not be more different in their methodologies if you tried. And the schools they came from are as different as well. Oregon and Stanford were both willing to take some chances, but only a bit.

The truth is that nfl coaches mostly fail. College ones seem to fail more interestingly, but schiano isn't any different than chud or mornigwheg at the end of the day.

I mostly agree. They are very different dudes with very different styles. But I do think the common thread that made each successful in the Pac-12, adaptability and willingness to innovate is very different from a Saban or Spurrier who knows one way to do things and will sink or swim with "their system".

I think most innovation we see in the current NFL is coming from the college ranks. Belichick is calling Chip Kelly not vice versa. Kyle Shanahan is studying and implementing Chris Ault's pistol formation on the fly, every NFL defense spent an offseason re-learning the read-option, Doug Marrone is bringing the extreme hurry up to Buffalo. If you're looking to the college ranks for your next coach, you're looking for an innovator or at least should be.

[mcbigski]

This completely. A gutsy move this isn't. More of a PR move, IMO.

I don't have an issue with the name, but I am neither native american or a Washington fan so I don't count. What I don't understand is the increased reluctance to change the name. Even from a business stand point. If Daniel Snyder changed the name, logo and colors over an off season, I would think that the amount he would make in new sales would more than make up for any revenue lost from "diehard" fans. Not to mention all of the positive publicity him and his team would get (maybe not as much now after refusing for so long).

I don't see that as gutsy at all. Not like he'd be trailblazing here. But they would get a bundle in new uni sales if they changed it up. I had heard that among the top ten jersey sales last year was Ryan Tannehill, and that's surely because Miami tweaked their uniform.

I set up a Pick Em league through Yahoo if any of you are interested in joining. The group is named Westeros Pick Em. ID# 21096. Password is sexcannon.

Just go to Yahoo Pro Football Pick'em and click "join group", then enter password and create a username.

For those of you unfamiliar with Pick'em, it just involves choosing the winners of each NFL game week to week with no point spread. We'll use confidence points in order to avoid ties.

http://football.fantasysports.yahoo.com/pickem

Sign up! Should be fun.

Done.

Oh I see. I didn't realize that throwing in a controlled setting is the same thing as throwing in a game with players around you. My fault.

Not that I'm defending Manziel, or the ESPN hype machine, but this does remind of my old insurance sales trainer who always mocked the guys who said 'Role play doesn't matter, I'm great in front of the client.'

[balefired-ed]

First, Hoyer should be the starter if the Browns want Manziel to ever, ever be any good. They have both struggled, but in different, and significant, ways.

Hoyer's timing is off because he is splitting reps with Manziel. He is still making the right reads and throwing to the correct receivers, though. Timing is a problem that can be corrected (relatively) easily with practice.

Not being able to identify blitzes, not going through progressions, and only reading the primary receiver and then running are issues that aren't correctable without a lot of time. That is Manziel's issue. The game is too fast, too complicated, and too big for him right now. Throw him out there against the Yinz in week one, and he is going to look awfully similar to another QB who wore #2 and wasn't ready.

It's the same issue Manziel had in college. The pockets didn't break down around him in aTm, he ran out of protection unnecessarily and didn't climb the pocket because he didn't understand what he was seeing. That can work in college, but he simply isn't fast enough to outrun defenders at this level.

Manziel is very, very easy to defend right now, ask Les Miles.

DE's don't rush, they play contain. One LB spies. Zone coverages. Pressure comes up the middle.

We play that defense twice a year down I-71 way. Atkins will fucking kill him. Then you have to deal with Dick Lebeau, who isn't exactly what one would call incompetent.

[davos]

Over 400 posts. Time for a new thread, y'all.