Black Wolf Smith Posted August 5, 2014 Share Posted August 5, 2014 I Do we know if blue roses bloom in winter or in summer? Edit: Lyanna was crowned in the Year of the False Spring, but then, the roses in her crown might had been grown in greenhouses. Good question, but not sure it is a small question. I always thought that Rhaegar had that laurel made for her, but others believe that the host of the tourney had it made, which IMO makes it less special. The wiki only says that they are grown in glass gardens at Winterfell, but we know that it grows other places. There isn't anything about when they are grown. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hangover of the Morning Posted August 5, 2014 Share Posted August 5, 2014 As to the QoLaB crown: did Lord Whent get to choose? Or is the crown always made from blue winter roses? That's why I asked the question about the different crowns :) to try and figure that out I honestly have no idea but if I had to guess than I would say that the crown is made out of whatever the most beautiful fresh flowers are available. I presume they are provided by the organisers of the event. Roses would be particularly popular because presumably they not as brittle when dry. Whoever makes the crown could make several types and the champion chooses, which one best fits his lady (her dress, eye colour, sigil etc.). Or before the "finals" the two champions put their own orders for the crown to be made to their liking. The last option, and probably most likely, is that there is just one made crown for each tournament and QoLaB gets it from her champion. Rhaegar specifically planed to crown Lyanna so he bend the rules and had a new one made. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Consigliere Posted August 5, 2014 Share Posted August 5, 2014 Alys is given a bride's cloak with the crest of House Thenn That symbolizes that she accepts his arms. If she accepts the arms, doesn´t she also accept the name? Tyrek Lannister was married to Lady Ermesande Hayford because she was the last of her line. The marriage gave the Hayford lands to the Lannisters. Should both of them have lived long enough, wouldn't their children be named Lannister as well? Als with all the betrayel that the male Karstarks are doing at the moment, the end of House Karstark by name might not be such a bad idea. Alys does not necessarily have to take the name Thenn. According to SSM, most women do take their husbands last name but usage varies especially if the wifes family is considered significantly higher born that her husbands. Politically it is probably better to keep the Karstark name. You ask about names. Several different questions here. Maege Mormont is called Mormont because no one knows her husband's name, or even if she has one. There is all the talk that she beds with a bear. She prefers to keep her own counsel. Most of the ladies of Westeros do change their names when they wed, although usage varies. If the wife's family is significantly higher born than the husband's, she may use his name little, if at all. The Dornish have their own customs. The full surname of the ruling house of Dorne is Nymeros Martell, and the ruling pricesses keep that in its female form. They do not take the name of their consorts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted August 5, 2014 Share Posted August 5, 2014 Alys does not necessarily have to take the name Thenn. According to SSM, most women do take their husbands last name but usage varies especially if the wifes family is considered significantly higher born that her husbands. Politically it is probably better to keep the Karstark name. Nice! Thanks for the SSM! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FittleLinger Posted August 5, 2014 Share Posted August 5, 2014 Nice! Thanks for the SSM! But didn't someone in-universe (Jon) actually mention that this marriage is the beginning of House Thenn of Karhold or something or am I just making this up? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhaenys_Targaryen Posted August 5, 2014 Share Posted August 5, 2014 I honestly have no idea but if I had to guess than I would say that the crown is made out of whatever the most beautiful fresh flowers are available. I presume they are provided by the organisers of the event. Roses would be particularly popular because presumably they not as brittle when dry. Whoever makes the crown could make several types and the champion chooses, which one best fits his lady (her dress, eye colour, sigil etc.). Or before the "finals" the two champions put their own orders for the crown to be made to their liking. The last option, and probably most likely, is that there is just one made crown for each tournament and QoLaB gets it from her champion. Rhaegar specifically planed to crown Lyanna so he bend the rules and had a new one made. What makes you think that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hangover of the Morning Posted August 5, 2014 Share Posted August 5, 2014 What makes you think that? Just the fact that it was specifically made of winter roses that were Lyanna's favourite. I don't necessarily mean he bend the rules. I doubt that there are any, more like customs. Pure speculation: Rhaegar find out that Lyanna was the KotLT. He felt like she deserved a recognition for that. He knew what her favourite flower was because either she mentioned it during their talk because they happened to stumbler upon them, or he asked, or Benjen told him etc. Before the final joust he made sure that there was a crown made of winter roses, should he win. I can't really imagine anyone refusing the crown prince. If the flowers were available, it's not that difficult to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Consigliere Posted August 5, 2014 Share Posted August 5, 2014 But didn't someone in-universe (Jon) actually mention that this marriage is the beginning of House Thenn of Karhold or something or am I just making this up? Hmm... I don't recall that. The text mentions that House Thenn has no family arms. The arms depicted on the bridal cloak were ones that Jon had made up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hangover of the Morning Posted August 5, 2014 Share Posted August 5, 2014 Another question: Does anyone know if there is a list of "all" unresolved little mysteries from the books? I am talking about things that will most likely not play a crucial role in the novels and could very well stay unanswered. Examples:What happened to Gerrion Lannister?Did Ramsay kill Domerick?Who's Gyles Rosby ward?Who built the tunnels from the Hand's Tower to the brothel? I am sure that there' many many more so I would like to check a list if it exists. Thanks a lot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HexMachina Posted August 5, 2014 Share Posted August 5, 2014 Another question: Does anyone know if there is a list of "all" unresolved little mysteries from the books? I am talking about things that will most likely not play a crucial role in the novels and could very well stay unanswered. Examples:What happened to Gerrion Lannister?Did Ramsay kill Domerick?Who's Gyles Rosby ward?Who built the tunnels from the Hand's Tower to the brothel? I am sure that there' many many more so I would like to check a list if it exists. Thanks a lot. I'm on my phone so can't check for you, but a quick search will probably turn them up. I certainly know such threads appear from time to time. However, you then get the inevitable few posters saying: "Ah! But Gerion is alive and is Tyrion's father!" or "Gyles Rosby's ward is Aegon Targaryen" (an older speculation this one...) or "Tywin obviously built the tunnel...No! It was Jon Arryn dumbass!" or "Roose killed Domeric! What fanfic, it was Ramsay of course! Dont be a fool, it was clearly Brandon..."Sorry, went off on a bit if a rant there....*coughs* :blushing: But yes, erm, a search should bring up such threads... :blushing:ETA: Other little mysteries I seem to recall from these threads; what happened to Stonesnake? Where did Greenbeard and the Huntsman go? etc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhaenys_Targaryen Posted August 5, 2014 Share Posted August 5, 2014 Just the fact that it was specifically made of winter roses that were Lyanna's favourite. I don't necessarily mean he bend the rules. I doubt that there are any, more like customs. Pure speculation: Rhaegar find out that Lyanna was the KotLT. He felt like she deserved a recognition for that. He knew what her favourite flower was because either she mentioned it during their talk because they happened to stumbler upon them, or he asked, or Benjen told him etc. Before the final joust he made sure that there was a crown made of winter roses, should he win. I can't really imagine anyone refusing the crown prince. If the flowers were available, it's not that difficult to do. But do we know if the roses had been her favorites by then, or whether they became her favorites after? Seeing as there is a reigning Queen of Love and Beauty at the start of each tournament, I doubt there is actually more than one crown. Why would they make two? And so, the reigning Queen of Love and Beauty would have had her crown before Rhaegar and Lyanna ever met. So if it truly is one crown (and I really can't see it being two), than the crown of blue roses already existed before Rhaegar ever saw Lyanna. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HexMachina Posted August 5, 2014 Share Posted August 5, 2014 But do we know if the roses had been her favorites by then, or whether they became her favorites after? Seeing as there is a reigning Queen of Love and Beauty at the start of each tournament, I doubt there is actually more than one crown. Why would they make two? And so, the reigning Queen of Love and Beauty would have had her crown before Rhaegar and Lyanna ever met. So if it truly is one crown (and I really can't see it being two), than the crown of blue roses already existed before Rhaegar ever saw Lyanna.Are you sure its the case that there is always a reigning QoLaB? I know in Dunk and Egg there was, but then that was because the host of the Tourney made the Tourney about defending the "fair maid". You could be right of course Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hangover of the Morning Posted August 5, 2014 Share Posted August 5, 2014 But do we know if the roses had been her favorites by then, or whether they became her favorites after? Seeing as there is a reigning Queen of Love and Beauty at the start of each tournament, I doubt there is actually more than one crown. Why would they make two? And so, the reigning Queen of Love and Beauty would have had her crown before Rhaegar and Lyanna ever met. So if it truly is one crown (and I really can't see it being two), than the crown of blue roses already existed before Rhaegar ever saw Lyanna. I honestly have no idea. It could be either way. I always pictured the crown to be made of fresh flowers so I assumed it is a different one for every tourney and every year. The more lavish tourney, the more exotic flowers in it. I think the reigning Queen might be just a title and she is not actually wearing any crown during the tournament. it seems odd to think that she'll either wear a crown of wilted flowers or that they would give her the freshly made one waiting for the next QoLaB. Anyway, I don't think the QoLaB is that important at the tourneys. The reigning queen can just have some flowers in her hair or a newly made crown that's neither the one from last year nor the one that will be given that year. Flowers are cheap and laurels easy to make. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Weirgaryen Posted August 5, 2014 Share Posted August 5, 2014 Do we need a Tourney Rules thread? There's this Tourney Rule thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhaenys_Targaryen Posted August 5, 2014 Share Posted August 5, 2014 Are you sure its the case that there is always a reigning QoLaB? I know in Dunk and Egg there was, but then that was because the host of the Tourney made the Tourney about defending the "fair maid". You could be right of course Perhaps not always. But IIRC, Lord Whents daughter was the Queen of Love and Beauty at opening, with her brother brothers and famous uncle from the KG (Oswell Whent) to defend her title. I honestly have no idea. It could be either way. I always pictured the crown to be made of fresh flowers so I assumed it is a different one for every tourney and every year. The more lavish tourney, the more exotic flowers in it. I think the reigning Queen might be just a title and she is not actually wearing any crown during the tournament. it seems odd to think that she'll either wear a crown of wilted flowers or that they would give her the freshly made one waiting for the next QoLaB. Anyway, I don't think the QoLaB is that important at the tourneys. The reigning queen can just have some flowers in her hair or a newly made crown that's neither the one from last year nor the one that will be given that year. Flowers are cheap and laurels easy to make. O, for every tourney definitly a different one.. I don't suppose they keep long enough, and lords always want to out do one another. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RumHam Posted August 5, 2014 Share Posted August 5, 2014 It is said that Edric Storm is Robert's only acknowledged bastard...in order for a bastard to have a last name doesn't their high born parent have to acknowledge them? He never openly acknowleged Mya yet she has the last name Stone all the same. I might be wrong, but I don't think he ever officially acknowledged her. Her father's identity is an open secret in the Vale. Bastard names are a matter of custom, nobody's gonna come arrest you for using one if you can't prove at least one noble parent. Also we have no idea who her mother was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dielsis Posted August 5, 2014 Share Posted August 5, 2014 This may be imagined but I could have sworn that Sansa was noticing Petyr's voice getting hoarser/scratchier as time went on in SoS. Am I going crazy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HexMachina Posted August 5, 2014 Share Posted August 5, 2014 This may be imagined but I could have sworn that Sansa was noticing Petyr's voice getting hoarser/scratchier as time went on in SoS. Am I going crazy? Not that I recall no. The only thing similar that I can think of is his breath, which always smells of mint, has a smell of wine at the end of a Feast for Crows Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dielsis Posted August 5, 2014 Share Posted August 5, 2014 Not that I recall no. The only thing similar that I can think of is his breath, which always smells of mint, has a smell of wine at the end of a Feast for Crows Thanks. It could be that my brain is convoluting that part into something different. It has done that before. I didn't remember that line so it's highly likely! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhaenys_Targaryen Posted August 5, 2014 Share Posted August 5, 2014 Not that I recall no. The only thing similar that I can think of is his breath, which always smells of mint, has a smell of wine at the end of a Feast for Crows Perhaps he's going to pull a Cersei ^^ Of late, Cersei always seemed to have a flagon of wine to hand, she who had once scorned Robert Baratheon for his drinking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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