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Stubby

Small Questions v 10086

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I really, really need to get e-versions of these books.





Next question: When Ned and Robert are arguing about sending men to kill Dany, Ned asks (paraphrasing) why they overthrew Aerys/Targs on the IT "if not to end the murder of children."



Who are the children he's talking about?


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I really, really need to get e-versions of these books.

Next question: When Ned and Robert are arguing about sending men to kill Dany, Ned asks (paraphrasing) why they overthrew Aerys/Targs on the IT "if not to end the murder of children."

Who are the children he's talking about?

Most likely the children Aerys had killed because of the Defiance of Duskendale. He killed an entire House, containing several children. Only young Dontos survived.

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I'll have to find quotes, but if I remember correctly they sent him out to "get rid of him" They knew they were not going to be able to convert anyone

aSoS 43

Thoros laughed. "Your master had it right. I was no very holy priest. I was born youngest of eight, so my father gave me over to the Red Temple, but it was not the path I would have chosen. I prayed the prayers and I spoke the spells, but I would also lead raids on the kitchens, and from time to time they found girls in my bed. Such wicked girls, I never knew how they got there."

"I had a gift for tongues, though. And when I gazed into the flames, well, from time to time I saw things. Even so, I was more bother than I was worthy, so they sent me finally to King's Landing to bring the Lord's light to seven-besotted Westeros. King Aerys so loved fire it was thought he might make a convert. Alas, his pyromancers knew better tricks than I did."

"King Robert was fond of me, though. The first time I rode into a melee with a flaming sword, Kevan Lannister's horse reared and threw him and His Grace laughed so hard I thought he might rupture." The red priest smiled at the memory. "It was no way to treat a blade, though, your master had the right of that too."

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Most likely the children Aerys had killed because of the Defiance of Duskendale. He killed an entire House, containing several children. Only young Dontos survived.

But that was several years before. Robert and Eddard and Jon went to war because Rhaegar kidnapped Lyanna and Aerys executed Rickard and Brandon without a fair trial (even by Westerosi standards). Eddard and Robert would have been next. Hoster joined them because Eddard and Jon agreed to marry his girls. For the line to work, we have to assume that other innocents and children had been murdered during Aerys's reign. Unless of course the Ned was thinking of his sister, whom Robert believes was murdered by Rhaegar.

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deja vu...we've had this discussion before I think. :p

From what I remember that time - we mentioned those who went to KL with Brandon and Rickard, and were presumably killed. I suppose going to war also prevented the deaths of children in that Aerys could have gone fully mad and demanded Benjen after Ned and Robert. Then there is also the fact that Aerys was mad and had shown what atrocities he was capable of, it could be like Varys "for the Children" = for the Realm...

There was more we mentioned, I can't remember what though

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But that was several years before. Robert and Eddard and Jon went to war because Rhaegar kidnapped Lyanna and Aerys executed Rickard and Brandon without a fair trial (even by Westerosi standards). Eddard and Robert would have been next. Hoster joined them because Eddard and Jon agreed to marry his girls. For the line to work, we have to assume that other innocents and children had been murdered during Aerys's reign. Unless of course the Ned was thinking of his sister, whom Robert believes was murdered by Rhaegar.

That's my mental conundrum - RR and the overthrow of the Targ dynasty wasn't begun to avenge Duskendale. Brandon, Ned, and Robert were hardly "children" at the start of RR, and the only other murdering of kids during that time (that I know of) occurred under command of Lannisters. That leaves Lyanna, and Ned thinking of her as being murdered (specifically by Aerys) contradicts....well, everything, OR Aerys was up to some funky monkey business that has yet to be revealed.

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That's my mental conundrum - RR and the overthrow of the Targ dynasty wasn't begun to avenge Duskendale. Brandon, Ned, and Robert were hardly "children" at the start of RR, and the only other murdering of kids during that time (that I know of) occurred under command of Lannisters. That leaves Lyanna, and Ned thinking of her as being murdered (specifically by Aerys) contradicts....well, everything, OR Aerys was up to some funky monkey business that has yet to be revealed.

Or it's just a metaphor of "stopping the madness".

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It's possible Aerys ordered the deaths of children more recently than Duskendale and we just haven't heard about it yet.


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The murder of children was not the immediate reason for the rebellion, but it fits the context of the conversation Ned and Robert were having at that exact moment: killing or not killing Dany (14) and her unborn child. Robert and Ned went to war to dethrone Aerys, and the question Ned is asking by saying "Robert, I ask you, what did we rise against Aerys Targaryen for, if not to put an end to the murder of children?” should then be read as Ned stating that Robert would be no better than Aerys if he allowed the hit on Dany, in the regards that Aerys had no problem with killing children (Duskendale, possibly a squire or two in Brandon's group).


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Searching something in the previous thread, I came across this post from @Consigliere, that I hadn't seen and thus still had to respond to :)




You sure about that.



In TMK it says Ambrose Butterwell was master of coin during Aegon IV reign and later Daeron II made him Hand. Also mentions that his father's father served as Hand. So I'm assuming that his grandfather was Hand to Aegon IV and he was Hand to Daeron II.




Yeah, you are right, I misread the original question. I thought the question was asking about whether the Lord Butterwell on the Small Council in Aegon IV's reign was the Hand in Daeron II's reign.



Butterwell was 50 in 212AC, so he'd have been onlyt 10 or so at the beginning of Aegon IV's reign, and 22 at the end of it. So Aegon IV's Hand was indeed most likely Butterwells grandfather (so they sat on the Small Council together, perhaps, Ambrose as Master of Coin, most likely at the end of Aegon's reign, and his grandfather as Hand).

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I really, really need to get e-versions of these books.

Next question: When Ned and Robert are arguing about sending men to kill Dany, Ned asks (paraphrasing) why they overthrew Aerys/Targs on the IT "if not to end the murder of children."

Who are the children he's talking about?

Most likely the children Aerys had killed because of the Defiance of Duskendale. He killed an entire House, containing several children. Only young Dontos survived.

It's possible Aerys ordered the deaths of children more recently than Duskendale and we just haven't heard about it yet.

I always found Ned's comment about children strange - what children was he talking about? I decided that either the information got edited out or will be revealed in the future.

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I Think the wildlings don't deal with Craster because he is in league with their enemy- the Others- Not that they are afraid of him but if you are preparing to march on the wall to avoid the Others why would you go near somewhere you know they frequent?


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It could also be that the Wildlings just don't want anything to do with him, like he's unholy/cursed or something. Even though he is their enemy, it's not worth dealing with him because of the stigma.

It took a huge crisis and an extraordinary person to bring all the different wildling groups together, subordinating ppl who were kings of their groups. Craster is one kind of wildling.

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Is it stated in the books that Mace served as Hand to Renly?

In the appendix of Clash:

MACE TYRELL, Lord of Highgarden, Warden of the South, Defender of the Marches, High Marshal of the Reach, and Hand of the King,

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I haven't got one thing from GOT:If Jorah Mormont didn't take Daenerys to the tent where Mirri Maz Dur did the ritual , Rhaego wouldn't have been killed?or Daenerys started to give birth as part of the ritual?


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deja vu...we've had this discussion before I think. :p

From what I remember that time - we mentioned those who went to KL with Brandon and Rickard, and were presumably killed. I suppose going to war also prevented the deaths of children in that Aerys could have gone fully mad and demanded Benjen after Ned and Robert. Then there is also the fact that Aerys was mad and had shown what atrocities he was capable of, it could be like Varys "for the Children" = for the Realm...

There was more we mentioned, I can't remember what though

What has been is what will be, and what has been done is what will be done, and there is nothing new under the sun.

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That's my mental conundrum - RR and the overthrow of the Targ dynasty wasn't begun to avenge Duskendale. Brandon, Ned, and Robert were hardly "children" at the start of RR, and the only other murdering of kids during that time (that I know of) occurred under command of Lannisters. That leaves Lyanna, and Ned thinking of her as being murdered (specifically by Aerys) contradicts....well, everything, OR Aerys was up to some funky monkey business that has yet to be revealed.

Keep in mind The Ned was trying to talk Robert out of killing 13 year old Daenerys. And the Ned knows that Robert believes the Targaryens killed his 14 year old betrothed.

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