R+L=J v.93

[Alia of the knife]

"But it cannot change a man's nature."

If she is also thinking this post Harrenhal, what is she referencing?

[Booknerd2]

I also sensed disappointment as well. If on some level she didn't care about Robert being faithful, (which suggests to me she might have initially cared), then she wouldn't have had concerns about being his wife.

But because she got wind of his behavior, (maybe servants gossip in WF), then she was disappointed with Ned for making Roberts offer to their father.

Alia,

I love the work you do here. You really know your stuff and I have always enjoyed your insightful posts regarding this topic on the R & L = Jon threads.

And for anyone interested in TOJ…I figured hell, I'm on the thread so I'd share what I saw tonight.

I just checked out Youtube and this guy, Preston Jacobs, does videos regarding different topics within ASOIAF. Tonight I was intrigued because he just started covering TOJ in parts.

He just posted part 1 of his take on Tower of Joy. Really, this part doesn't delve into any theories too much until the end. It seems as if his part 1 is more of a recap of TOJ and what we know. Seems like the theories are coming in part 2. But he does back up all his videos with quotes, and evidence, and I respect that he does his canon/book homework.

In general, some stuff I can get with and some stuff I don't agree with, well, really more with the Dornish plan videos and the harpy ones.

But it might be interesting to have a look.

[BearQueen87]

Alia,

I love the work you do here. You really know your stuff and I have always enjoyed your insightful posts regarding this topic on the R & L = Jon threads.

And for anyone interested in TOJ…I figured hell, I'm on the thread so I'd share what I saw tonight.

I just checked out Youtube and this guy, Preston Jacobs, does videos regarding different topics within ASOIAF. Tonight I was intrigued because he just started covering TOJ in parts.

He just posted part 1 of his take on Tower of Joy. Really, this part doesn't delve into any theories too much until the end. It seems as if his part 1 is more of a recap of TOJ and what we know. Seems like the theories are coming in part 2. But he does back up all his videos with quotes, and evidence, and I respect that he does his canon/book homework.

In general, some stuff I can get with and some stuff I don't agree with, well, really more with the Dornish plan videos and the harpy ones.

But it might interesting to have a look.

We actually posted that video a few pages back. We had some...things...to say about it.

[Ellfoy]

"But it cannot change a man's nature."

If she is also thinking this post Harrenhal, what is she referencing?

I don't know maybe Rhaegar served her the "I have feelings for you but I am married so not happening" at Harrenhal or by letter. She will be bitter because despite his feelings, Rhaegar remained honorable (to his wife) as she thinks is in his nature. So, it would be another comparison in disfavor of Robert who his fathering bastards everywhere and will keep doing even after they will be married because it is in his nature. Which would be funny because eventually, Rhaegar pulled a "Screw that, let's runaway together !" and abandoned Elia.

But well that is surely a litle too crackpot. Especially since Rhaegar crowned Lyanna queen of love and beauty in front of his wife at Harrenhal but that was so knightly that Lyanna may have idealised him a little too much...

[Booknerd2]

Thanks so much! BearQueen

For this part 1, again, it was more recap and didn't seem to get into too much.

I will have to check out the discussion on this thread.

I am really waiting to see part 2 and what is covered.

[BearQueen87]

I don't know maybe Rhaegar served her the "I have feelings for you but I am married so not happening" at Harrenhal or by letter. She will be bitter because despite his feelings, Rhaegar remained honorable (to his wife). So, it would be another comparison in disfavor of Robert who his fathering bastards everywhere. Which would be funny because eventually, Rhaegar pulled a "Screw that, let's runaway together !" and abandoned Elia.

But well that is surely a litlle too crackpot. Especially since Rhaegar crowned Lyanna queen of love and beauty in front of his wife at Harrenhal.

But isn't this entire conversation with Ned happening AT Harrenhal prior to the crowning??

Like I said a page back, I thik Lyanna is being sarcastic. At this point the "love" Robert has for her doesn't mean anything because his nature isn't up to snuff. it then becomes ironic when Lyanna turns around some 8-9months later and runs off with a married man because lo and behold love, it turns out, really is that sweet.

[Ellfoy]

But isn't this entire conversation with Ned happening AT Harrenhal prior to the crowning??

Like I said a page back, I thik Lyanna is being sarcastic. At this point the "love" Robert has for her doesn't mean anything because his nature isn't up to snuff. it then becomes ironic when Lyanna turns around some 8-9months later and runs off with a married man because lo and behold love, it turns out, really is that sweet.

But I though that conversation took place the night Lyanna discovered that she had been betrothed to Robert. And Robert and Lyanna were betrothed after Harrenhal...

[BearQueen87]

But I though that conversation took place the night Lyanna discovered that she had been betrothed to Robert. And Robert and Lyanna were betrothed after Harrenhal...

From Wiki

Lyanna was at Winterfell when her father promised her hand to Robert Baratheon. That same night she confided to Eddard concerning her opinion of Robert: that the man will never keep to one bed. She had heard that Robert had an illegitimate daughter in the Vale of Arryn, apparently Mya Stone. Eddard attempted to persuade her that what Robert did before the betrothal was insignificant and that Robert would change. She was not convinced

Then Harrenhal happens, in which she is crowned by Rhaegar, having already become engaged to Robert.

(is that right????) (this is why I rely on others for Timeline things. Jumbled mess)

[Shinjuku Thief]

Unless the fire reaches very high temperatures, bones are not burnt, so it is possible to cremate the body and gather the bones afterwards.

Incidentally, this is what is done in Japanese culture, creation at lower temperature, then the relatives place the bones one by one in an urn. (Using large chopsticks - as they often have to help each other with the larger bones, this is why it's taboo for two people to grab the same piece of food at the same time or for their chopsticks to touch).

[Alia of the knife]

Alia,

I love the work you do here. You really know your stuff and I have always enjoyed your insightful posts regarding this topic on the R & L = Jon threads.

And for anyone interested in TOJ…I figured hell, I'm on the thread so I'd share what I saw tonight.

I just checked out Youtube and this guy, Preston Jacobs, does videos regarding different topics within ASOIAF. Tonight I was intrigued because he just started covering TOJ in parts.

He just posted part 1 of his take on Tower of Joy. Really, this part doesn't delve into any theories too much until the end. It seems as if his part 1 is more of a recap of TOJ and what we know. Seems like the theories are coming in part 2. But he does back up all his videos with quotes, and evidence, and I respect that he does his canon/book homework.

In general, some stuff I can get with and some stuff I don't agree with, well, really more with the Dornish plan videos and the harpy ones.

But it might be interesting to have a look.

Thanks. :wub:

I think what he does is emphasize the missing information and the ambiguity it has caused, but I think if you follow the breadcrumbs laid out by Martin over the five books, I think it is fairly evident that Jon is Rhaegar and Lyannas son.

Really, most of the evidence is in the first book. :)

[JonSnow4President]

Alia,

I love the work you do here. You really know your stuff and I have always enjoyed your insightful posts regarding this topic on the R & L = Jon threads.

And for anyone interested in TOJ…I figured hell, I'm on the thread so I'd share what I saw tonight.

I just checked out Youtube and this guy, Preston Jacobs, does videos regarding different topics within ASOIAF. Tonight I was intrigued because he just started covering TOJ in parts.

He just posted part 1 of his take on Tower of Joy. Really, this part doesn't delve into any theories too much until the end. It seems as if his part 1 is more of a recap of TOJ and what we know. Seems like the theories are coming in part 2. But he does back up all his videos with quotes, and evidence, and I respect that he does his canon/book homework.

In general, some stuff I can get with and some stuff I don't agree with, well, really more with the Dornish plan videos and the harpy ones.

But it might be interesting to have a look.

The person behind the account is also a member of our community. I'll let him make himself known if he wants to, but he's fairly active and has some more "out there" theories IMO, but always has something in the text he can at least refer to, which is SOOO refreshing.

[Jon_Samwell_Snow]

Ned: Lyanna, I want you to get married to Rhaegar.
Lyanna: Why? I know he sleeps around with other women, Ned.
Ned: I know. He likes you.
Lyanna: Okay...
Ned: He really likes you.
Lyanna:......

Ned: I mean, he really likes you.


Lyanna: "But it cannot change a man's nature

[Ellfoy]

From Wiki

Then Harrenhal happens, in which she is crowned by Rhaegar, having already become engaged to Robert.

(is that right????) (this is why I rely on others for Timeline things. Jumbled mess)

I remembered that it was at Winterfell and I always assumed that it was before the Tourney but it was never stated in the books, then I read on that forum that Lyanna and Robert were betrothed after the Tourney, meaning that this conversation took place after the Tourney. It was in old R+L=J forum members posts so I had assumed that they had better informations but I dunno :dunno:

[Alia of the knife]

I don't know maybe Rhaegar served her the "I have feelings for you but I am married so not happening" at Harrenhal or by letter. She will be bitter because despite his feelings, Rhaegar remained honorable (to his wife) as she thinks is in his nature. So, it would be another comparison in disfavor of Robert who his fathering bastards everywhere and will keep doing even after they will be married because it is in his nature. Which would be funny because eventually, Rhaegar pulled a "Screw that, let's runaway together !" and abandoned Elia.

But well that is surely a litle too crackpot. Especially since Rhaegar crowned Lyanna queen of love and beauty in front of his wife at Harrenhal but that was so knightly that Lyanna may have idealised him a little too much...

It was said all smiles died, so perhaps Lyanna wasn't thrilled with the crowning either. :dunno: I imagine it might have actually been uncomfortable under the circumstances, especially as we're given the detail of Ned being the one touching the crown.

[Jon_Samwell_Snow]

I bet you there was a lot of gossip after the crowning.

[Alia of the knife]

No, no, you need to explain this. Where the hell is that thing from the Pleistocene era? Did you buy it at Jurassic park? Can you warg it? Is it a dire cat? Did it belong to Wun Wun, is this been what's killing off the Mammoths? What happens when it wants food?

The Main Coon is a most awesome specimen.

Loving and warm, they like to be in the middle of everything, (even if the floor creaks when they walk across it). :D

He loves music, so I have to leave soundscapes on when I go to work.

As for food, he will come and get you for it.

[Booknerd2]

Totally, JonSnow4President.

Whether I agree with a particular point or not, I like what he's doing.

There is not one video where there isn't something covered that I totally overlooked or realized hey, I missed that, time to check that out again.

They are thought-provoking.

Also, some of the artwork I have never seen before.

[Ellfoy]

It was said all smiles died, so perhaps Lyanna wasn't thrilled with the crowning either. :dunno: I imagine it might have actually been uncomfortable under the circumstances, especially as we're given the detail of Ned being the one touching the crown.

Lol ! Maybe the "cannot change a man's nature" referred to Lyanna bashing Rhaegar because he crowned her instead of his wife. "Men are all the same !"

[BearQueen87]

It was said all smiles died, so perhaps Lyanna wasn't thrilled with the crowning either. :dunno: I imagine it might have actually been uncomfortable under the circumstances, especially as we're given the detail of Ned being the one touching the crown.

I think Lyanna was probably deeply uncomfortable; after the event was over as Rhaegar goes back to his wife and they leave for KL, I assume Lyanna got *grilled* by her older brothers (what happened between you two? have you done anything foolish? did he approach you in an ungentlemanly like manner? )

[Ellfoy]

I think Lyanna was probably deeply uncomfortable; after the event was over as Rhaegar goes back to his wife and they leave for KL, I assume Lyanna got *grilled* by her older brothers (what happened between you two? have you done anything foolish? did he approach you in an ungentlemanly like manner? )

I'm betting on Brandon...