Michael Seswatha Jordan Posted August 6, 2014 Share Posted August 6, 2014 I wonder why warging (or possessions) are not used more often in TSA. Does it have limitations, for example can a sorcerer be warged? Why hasn't someone tried warging a Javreh captain and killing the SS GM with a Chorae?Well if i remember correctly, only the Consult did that sorta thing. And the Scarlet Spires have been nothing but a unknowing ally to the Consult. In the first trilogy anyways, wich I'm assuming what your talking about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Seswatha Jordan Posted August 6, 2014 Share Posted August 6, 2014 I read the epilogue and Akka's first chapter in TDTCB. But I can't pull myself away from Malazan right now. As soon as I'm done I'm doing a full re-read of the series. Just from those two chapters I picked up on many subtleties I never gave pause to before. I keep putting it off, but I just finished TTH and I can't put the series down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Seswatha Jordan Posted August 6, 2014 Share Posted August 6, 2014 True, but I what I was leaning towards was Akka. Also like u mentioned the Dunyain and they possessed Esement to lure Kellhus wich we know is Dunyain. And SS had no affinity towards Kellhus.ETA:sorry to point out obvious about kellhus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Callan S. Posted August 7, 2014 Share Posted August 7, 2014 That is why you are damned. 4000 years ago...*cough*...5000 years ago, we.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diziet Posted August 7, 2014 Share Posted August 7, 2014 Well if i remember correctly, only the Consult did that sorta thing. And the Scarlet Spires have been nothing but a unknowing ally to the Consult. In the first trilogy anyways, wich I'm assuming what your talking about. The SS aren't the point. I just wonder why an ability like this isn't used far more often by sorcerers. Aurang possessed Esmenet long distance and he cast magic through her. That is insane. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galactus Posted August 7, 2014 Share Posted August 7, 2014 slick. worthy of the great lockesnow himself.in order to avoid chirping upon the asimov virgins herein--the trick in asimov is that the other end of the galaxy, relative to the circumference, is the center, as opposed to any particular point and its antipode 180 degrees away along that circumference. as i recall it, terminus was out along the periphery.in the RSB the end of the world as a location might indulge in a similar semantic ambiguity and be topoi or access point to the outside. They also pointed out that Seldon wasn't a physicist but a sociologist: And in that sense the "periphery" is opposed to the Imperial Center. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilentRoamer Posted August 7, 2014 Share Posted August 7, 2014 They also pointed out that Seldon wasn't a physicist but a sociologist: And in that sense the "periphery" is opposed to the Imperial Center. I thought Hari Seldon propounded a new brach of science called Psychohistory which used statistical models to predict large scale behavioural patterns IIRC. I suppose it does involve Sociology. Long time since I read Foundation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Seswatha Jordan Posted August 7, 2014 Share Posted August 7, 2014 The SS aren't the point. I just wonder why an ability like this isn't used far more often by sorcerers. Aurang possessed Esmenet long distance and he cast magic through her. That is insane.Well I think it might be because possession, at least to me, seems like an evil thing to do. So, maybe the author is strictly keeping that to the Consult....? That's my best guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhom Posted August 7, 2014 Share Posted August 7, 2014 Well I think it might be because possession, at least to me, seems like an evil thing to do. So, maybe the author is strictly keeping that to the Consult....? That's my best guess.But, in universe, sorcery is considered an "evil thing to do." Even our hero Akka keeps a soul trapped in a Wathi doll. There's really no reason not to do it really. The consult use a version of the gnosis do they not? Perhaps the lesser schools do not have the capability of doing it, but the Mandate certainly should have no compunction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalbear Posted August 7, 2014 Share Posted August 7, 2014 Yeah - the Consult (or more specifically the Mangaeccea) are one of the gnostic schools. It's not clear whether or not Aurax/Aurang practice it or not, but the Erratics and the human sorcerers that they have certainly have access to it. As to casting magic through the possessed - I didn't read it that way; I thought it was casting it through the synthese. Or even casting it around Esme, so Kellhus was also affected. I don't know why others don't use it. Other sorcerers would happily compel the mandate, save that it doesn't work to get the gnosis from them so they don't bother. My suspicion is that it leaves you fairly vulnerable, requires a decent amount of skill and doesn't get you very much; you can only cast things like the cant of compulsion, but you can't do things like major dragon's heads and the like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Seswatha Jordan Posted August 7, 2014 Share Posted August 7, 2014 But, in universe, sorcery is considered an "evil thing to do." Even our hero Akka keeps a soul trapped in a Wathi doll. There's really no reason not to do it really. The consult use a version of the gnosis do they not? Perhaps the lesser schools do not have the capability of doing it, but the Mandate certainly should have no compunction.Yes, I understand that are damned for even using sorcery. I was going to mention the Wathii doll. And, the way I remember it, didn't Akka feel kinda bad about soul being imprisoned in said doll? Was even reluctant to use it. It just seems to me like the idea of possessing another human, is a level their (schoolman) aren't willing to go to. Its just the feeling I get from the text. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry of the Lawn Posted August 8, 2014 Share Posted August 8, 2014 Yes, I understand that are damned for even using sorcery. I was going to mention the Wathii doll. And, the way I remember it, didn't Akka feel kinda bad about soul being imprisoned in said doll? Was even reluctant to use it. It just seems to me like the idea of possessing another human, is a level their (schoolman) aren't willing to go to. Its just the feeling I get from the text.Which is ironic considering that both the Mandate and Akka have no problem owning slaves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Seswatha Jordan Posted August 8, 2014 Share Posted August 8, 2014 Why yes, yes it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sologdin Posted August 8, 2014 Share Posted August 8, 2014 slavery is transient but adollization is forever? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhom Posted August 9, 2014 Share Posted August 9, 2014 I know this is off the current topic, but it seems to me I recall us discussing Kellhus' true reasons for leaving Ishual and someone said that being sent to kill Moengus is only something that he tells Cnaiur.But I'm doing my reread of TWP and I'm currently on the middle of the battle for Caraskand. Kellhus has just survived the skin spy ambush and the Cishuarim messenger has found him and given a message from Moe. In his internal monologue, Kellhus thinks:He knows the Pragma have sent me as an assassin... He needs to be certain of me first.Maybe I'm misremembering our earlier discussion, but that at least clarifies to me that at the very least Kellhus believes he was sent to kill Moe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sologdin Posted August 9, 2014 Share Posted August 9, 2014 he's obviously just telling himself what he wants to hear. and that's just inexcusable because he of all people should know not to believe a dunyain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry of the Lawn Posted August 10, 2014 Share Posted August 10, 2014 Who will the Dunyain send to murder Kellhus? Surely he must have anticipated the inevitable old-lady-that-swallowed-the-fly effect. Or did he predict the Dunyain sending out assassins to kill him, explaining the ruin that Akka and Mimara find at Ishual. Or did the Dunyain come to the same conclusion as the Consult and long con the while Yatwer/wlw/narindar stuff? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Ent Posted August 10, 2014 Share Posted August 10, 2014 There's a superpowerful Dunyain abroad and he must be stopped because this must not happe No. There has been a superpowerful Dunyain abroad for 30 years and Ishual didn’t care. Moenghus corrupted Ishual by sending dreams. This is the infraction that had to be silenced by sending Kellhus (and suiciding the recipient Ishualites.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Callan S. Posted August 10, 2014 Share Posted August 10, 2014 he's obviously just telling himself what he wants to hear. and that's just inexcusable because he of all people should know not to believe a dunyain.G Geez, that's a bit meta - he hasn't recieved word from Moe, he's hypothesizing what's happening. Not even believing the events themselves occured is pretty hardcore! Or am I reading it wrong and it's said with certainty, not as a hypothesis? I read it as the sort of 'guessing the other chess players next move' inner monologue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Callan S. Posted August 10, 2014 Share Posted August 10, 2014 This makes sense on the surface, but it is complicated by the detail of how Moe got into trouble in the first place. Why was he exiled? Probably exposure to magic and with it a diversion down an entirely different research tree than would be compatable with the original R&D project. Possibly expected that to convince the Dunyain he would have to be close enough to them that if they decided against it and he was just contaminated, he'd be killed. Also I think he just left rather than was exiled. Dunyain don't exile. They suffer no weakness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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