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Bakker XXVIII: A Hiding Place Soon to be Discovered


Anatúrinbor

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Perhaps this is a stretch, but did anyone else note the wording in this passage?

Notice how he is explicitly taking credit or bragging about all the atrocities mentioned, except the Womb-Plague where he only says that "following the Womb-Plague," he was given a name that's to his liking. Of all the Inchoroi, the Nonmen gave the name Angel of Deceit to Aurang, which implies that they primarily blamed him for organizing it. And yet, the wording is "And then, following the Womb-Plague," and not "And then, the Womb-Plague." He explicitly mentions bleeding whole peoples white at the end, you'd think that he'd would spare a line or two to how he exterminated all the Cûnoroi women, but no.

I'm sure most will disagree with this interpretation, but to me it seems that either to the Inchoroi the Womb-Plague is not something to brag about or that it was, as some have speculated in the past, an accident.

If it was supposed to kill all nonmen, then it was indeed an accident. A failure. Still goes on the CV though, because everyone fattens their CV.

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metagnosis in ruiner's citation occurs via indomitable conviction rather than through the logos. it is not dunyain, therefore.

The Principle of Before and After simply had to be true, if its presumption could so empower ...

His father had to be right.

So what was this certainty, this immovable conviction, that he was wrong?

Am I mad?

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Anyway, according to this website, the definition of the word metagnostic[ism] is:

the doctrine that knowledge of the Absolute is within human reach, but through a higher religious consciousness rather than by logical processes. metagnostic, adj.

So there is a relation between performing the Metagnosis and grasping the Absolute? Is this something discussed in the series that I missed?

metagnosis in citation occurs via indomitable conviction rather than through the logos - sologdin

I like this idea. Serwe and Saracees (who also have the metagnosis) are both depicted as very fallible, so if anything the narrative seems to attempt to lead away from that conclusion. Which could be obfuscation...

There might be a hint in Serwe/Sorweel conversation about the absolute, idk.

My guess is that, because the nonmen taught men the gnosis, this is actually a hint towards nonman religious mysticism rather than a glimpse at the truth of the 'absolute'.

There is historical precedent of the term; Su'joroit

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Hey guys!



Pat who used to be Pat5150 but hasn't been able to access his account since last December. . . :crying: Having no choice, I was forced to create a new account and to my dismay found out that Ser Patrek was already taken as a screen name. It's my only claim to fame, damn it!!!



Anyway, just wanted to let you know that I haven't forgotten about the extract from TUC. It's just that Scott hasn't gotten back to me with the sample yet. . .



Cheers,



Patrick


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Nice catch on the ghost of a grimace.

I've always thought based on the text that kellhus teleported the knife into position and then withdrew it. This way he doesn't have to beat Moe's reflexes.

Also on my last read I notated the comment mentioned above where kellhus calls himself an assassin. It pretty much shoots down my theory that it was a lie to cnaiur. However, it does occur after the rape of serwe, and that event may have had other forces scrambling his brain.

I think that is ridiculous though. All the text implies he is going to kill moe, he does so, and in that one instance he explicitly thinks it. Can't ignore that mountain of evidence.

But it does not shoot down the idea that kellhus was summoned to shimeh and only wound up on the side of the he inrithi because of serwes interference in his journey.

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Only thing is he thinks "Shimeh will be my home. I shall dwell in my fathers house." I don't think he intended to dwell in his father's house after killing him. What's more likely is that Kellhus was entertaining thoughts of betraying the Dunyain at this point, because his mission must have involved not only his father's death, but his death as well.

It's true that the Dunyain did not seem to care that one of their number was out in the world for some 30 years, but that attitude must have changed once Moenghus started polluting them with the dreams. The most likely mission they would've given Kellhus is one that makes sure Meonghus is stopped, and ensures that this whole debacle does not happen again. That mission is: kill your father and then kill yourself. Or kill Moenghus and then return (so you can be killed as well.)

There they would die, as had been decided. All those his father had polluted.

[I'm alone. My mission is all that remains.]

Kellhus is one of those his father had polluted, if not by the dreams, then by having left Ishual.

Edit: Added the rest of the quote.

"My mission is all that remains" - meaning: my mission will end with my death.

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Only thing is he thinks "Shimeh will be my home. I shall dwell in my fathers house."

There is also lines like "Shimeh. Please, Father." And "the way is too narrow Father, Shimeh is too far." He's saying Father, not Pragma.

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Also, before being sent, the dunyain would have obviously conditioned kellhus in interesting ways. Naturally he would be ignorant of how they futzed with his head. Indeed his thoughts constantly sidle away from self doubt.

Perhaps moenghus chose the route of the circumfix to break the ishual conditioning?

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There is also lines like "Shimeh. Please, Father." And "the way is too narrow Father, Shimeh is too far." He's saying Father, not Pragma.

Yeah, that too. Those don't seem like the thoughts of an assassin, at least not one who has accepted that role.

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I've always thought based on the text that kellhus teleported the knife into position and then withdrew it. This way he doesn't have to beat Moe's reflexes.

That'd be cool. A bit like when Cnaiur's attack seems to pass through Kellhus's blocking arm when they fight, IIRC, on the cliff.





Perhaps moenghus chose the route of the circumfix to break the ishual conditioning?




But reinforced it?


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