sologdin Posted August 14, 2014 Share Posted August 14, 2014 metagnosis in ruiner's citation occurs via indomitable conviction rather than through the logos. it is not dunyain, therefore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diziet Posted August 14, 2014 Share Posted August 14, 2014 Kellhus is "more" than Dunyain. In fact, its right after he says that he does the Metagnosis for the first time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry of the Lawn Posted August 14, 2014 Share Posted August 14, 2014 Hes Dunsukhic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Callan S. Posted August 15, 2014 Share Posted August 15, 2014 Perhaps this is a stretch, but did anyone else note the wording in this passage?Notice how he is explicitly taking credit or bragging about all the atrocities mentioned, except the Womb-Plague where he only says that "following the Womb-Plague," he was given a name that's to his liking. Of all the Inchoroi, the Nonmen gave the name Angel of Deceit to Aurang, which implies that they primarily blamed him for organizing it. And yet, the wording is "And then, following the Womb-Plague," and not "And then, the Womb-Plague." He explicitly mentions bleeding whole peoples white at the end, you'd think that he'd would spare a line or two to how he exterminated all the Cûnoroi women, but no.I'm sure most will disagree with this interpretation, but to me it seems that either to the Inchoroi the Womb-Plague is not something to brag about or that it was, as some have speculated in the past, an accident. If it was supposed to kill all nonmen, then it was indeed an accident. A failure. Still goes on the CV though, because everyone fattens their CV. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Callan S. Posted August 15, 2014 Share Posted August 15, 2014 Hes Dunsukhic Dunsaiyan. Most of The Unholy Consult involves charging the spirit bomb. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diziet Posted August 15, 2014 Share Posted August 15, 2014 Hes Dunsukhic Or Psûnyain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anatúrinbor Posted August 15, 2014 Author Share Posted August 15, 2014 metagnosis in ruiner's citation occurs via indomitable conviction rather than through the logos. it is not dunyain, therefore.The Principle of Before and After simply had to be true, if its presumption could so empower ...His father had to be right.So what was this certainty, this immovable conviction, that he was wrong?Am I mad? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Callan S. Posted August 15, 2014 Share Posted August 15, 2014 Now I want Punyain... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curethan Posted August 16, 2014 Share Posted August 16, 2014 Anyway, according to this website, the definition of the word metagnostic[ism] is: the doctrine that knowledge of the Absolute is within human reach, but through a higher religious consciousness rather than by logical processes. metagnostic, adj. So there is a relation between performing the Metagnosis and grasping the Absolute? Is this something discussed in the series that I missed? metagnosis in citation occurs via indomitable conviction rather than through the logos - sologdin I like this idea. Serwe and Saracees (who also have the metagnosis) are both depicted as very fallible, so if anything the narrative seems to attempt to lead away from that conclusion. Which could be obfuscation... There might be a hint in Serwe/Sorweel conversation about the absolute, idk. My guess is that, because the nonmen taught men the gnosis, this is actually a hint towards nonman religious mysticism rather than a glimpse at the truth of the 'absolute'.There is historical precedent of the term; Su'joroit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unJon Posted August 16, 2014 Share Posted August 16, 2014 SBH, the moe faked death with power up can't of far talking is the original Nerdenal theory. There are some supe detailed posts dissecting the whole scene in the older threads. Fascinating theory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Patrek Posted August 18, 2014 Share Posted August 18, 2014 Hey guys! Pat who used to be Pat5150 but hasn't been able to access his account since last December. . . :crying: Having no choice, I was forced to create a new account and to my dismay found out that Ser Patrek was already taken as a screen name. It's my only claim to fame, damn it!!! Anyway, just wanted to let you know that I haven't forgotten about the extract from TUC. It's just that Scott hasn't gotten back to me with the sample yet. . . Cheers, Patrick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curethan Posted August 18, 2014 Share Posted August 18, 2014 Ply him, Lord Patrek. Or your reward shall be another shadow-ban. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madness Posted August 18, 2014 Share Posted August 18, 2014 Hey guys! ...Patrick i respected you for your avatar before... the fuck, pat? how can i respect you more :o? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lokisnow Posted August 18, 2014 Share Posted August 18, 2014 Nice catch on the ghost of a grimace.I've always thought based on the text that kellhus teleported the knife into position and then withdrew it. This way he doesn't have to beat Moe's reflexes.Also on my last read I notated the comment mentioned above where kellhus calls himself an assassin. It pretty much shoots down my theory that it was a lie to cnaiur. However, it does occur after the rape of serwe, and that event may have had other forces scrambling his brain. I think that is ridiculous though. All the text implies he is going to kill moe, he does so, and in that one instance he explicitly thinks it. Can't ignore that mountain of evidence.But it does not shoot down the idea that kellhus was summoned to shimeh and only wound up on the side of the he inrithi because of serwes interference in his journey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anatúrinbor Posted August 18, 2014 Author Share Posted August 18, 2014 Only thing is he thinks "Shimeh will be my home. I shall dwell in my fathers house." I don't think he intended to dwell in his father's house after killing him. What's more likely is that Kellhus was entertaining thoughts of betraying the Dunyain at this point, because his mission must have involved not only his father's death, but his death as well.It's true that the Dunyain did not seem to care that one of their number was out in the world for some 30 years, but that attitude must have changed once Moenghus started polluting them with the dreams. The most likely mission they would've given Kellhus is one that makes sure Meonghus is stopped, and ensures that this whole debacle does not happen again. That mission is: kill your father and then kill yourself. Or kill Moenghus and then return (so you can be killed as well.)There they would die, as had been decided. All those his father had polluted.[I'm alone. My mission is all that remains.]Kellhus is one of those his father had polluted, if not by the dreams, then by having left Ishual.Edit: Added the rest of the quote."My mission is all that remains" - meaning: my mission will end with my death. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diziet Posted August 18, 2014 Share Posted August 18, 2014 Only thing is he thinks "Shimeh will be my home. I shall dwell in my fathers house."There is also lines like "Shimeh. Please, Father." And "the way is too narrow Father, Shimeh is too far." He's saying Father, not Pragma. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lokisnow Posted August 18, 2014 Share Posted August 18, 2014 Also, before being sent, the dunyain would have obviously conditioned kellhus in interesting ways. Naturally he would be ignorant of how they futzed with his head. Indeed his thoughts constantly sidle away from self doubt.Perhaps moenghus chose the route of the circumfix to break the ishual conditioning? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anatúrinbor Posted August 18, 2014 Author Share Posted August 18, 2014 There is also lines like "Shimeh. Please, Father." And "the way is too narrow Father, Shimeh is too far." He's saying Father, not Pragma.Yeah, that too. Those don't seem like the thoughts of an assassin, at least not one who has accepted that role. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Callan S. Posted August 19, 2014 Share Posted August 19, 2014 I've always thought based on the text that kellhus teleported the knife into position and then withdrew it. This way he doesn't have to beat Moe's reflexes.That'd be cool. A bit like when Cnaiur's attack seems to pass through Kellhus's blocking arm when they fight, IIRC, on the cliff. Perhaps moenghus chose the route of the circumfix to break the ishual conditioning?But reinforced it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jurble Posted August 19, 2014 Share Posted August 19, 2014 Wasn't there supposed to be a second half of the sample chapter Bakker gave to Pat at some point? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.