JonisHenryTudor Posted August 3, 2014 Share Posted August 3, 2014 They also weren't that badly outnumbered for most of the war. Delbruck pretty conclusively proved that the notion of a million-man Persian army was pure propaganda. Yes but they were actually outnumbered significantly. Not 1 mill to 30k, but still outnumbered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonisHenryTudor Posted August 3, 2014 Share Posted August 3, 2014 There's too many factors at play in the Battle of Agincourt to make a comparison based on the simple fact that Renly has lots of knights and the French had lots of knights. Really the only real comparison to be drawn is that Stannis is fighting from a prepared position and not a favourable one at that, with Storm's End to his rear. True. But most military historians attribute the loss to two main points: the Welsh Longbowman and the sludge the heavily armored French knights had to fight in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minsc Posted August 3, 2014 Share Posted August 3, 2014 True. But most military historians attribute the loss to two main points: the Welsh Longbowman and the sludge the heavily armored French knights had to fight in. Neither which Stannis has to assist him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trigger Warning Posted August 3, 2014 Share Posted August 3, 2014 True. But most military historians attribute the loss to two main points: the Welsh Longbowman and the sludge the heavily armored French knights had to fight in. Which Stan the Man doesn't really have. Cat says that it has been raining but that's worlds away from a freshly ploughed field and the woodland that guarded the English flanks isn't there , also considering that Tarly is present I would imagine the cavalry would be kept in good order and utilised well unlike at Agincourt. But the real killer here is that Stannis had nowhere to go, 20,000 men is a large army. If the initial assault fails, they can break off and rengage or under more dire circumstances break off and send riders to summon the hosts at Bitterbirdge. I also don't see Stannis pulling off some Battle of the Golden Spurs esque defences under the nose of the garrison at Storm's End and in view of Renly's scouts in the time that he is there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Señor de la Tormenta Posted August 3, 2014 Share Posted August 3, 2014 I insist, if the fight is close to the sea, Stannis 200 warships with huge scorpions and cataplts could ve turned the fight to his side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trigger Warning Posted August 3, 2014 Share Posted August 3, 2014 I insist, if the fight is close to the sea, Stannis 200 warships with huge scorpions and cataplts could ve turned the fight to his side. :thumbsup: Those good old, reliable medieval naval artillery batteries that accurately support allied ground forces at considerable range through state of the art land/naval communication. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boarsbane Posted August 3, 2014 Share Posted August 3, 2014 :thumbsup: Those good old, reliable medieval naval artillery batteries that accurately support allied ground forces at considerable range through state of the art land/naval communication. Just aim for the guy in green armor with golden antlers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Universal Sword Donor Posted August 3, 2014 Share Posted August 3, 2014 Just aim for the guy in green armor with golden antlers Assuming he ever got his helm fixed after the jousting at the Hand's Tourney Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Yo of House Lo Posted August 3, 2014 Author Share Posted August 3, 2014 I think Renly would have proven a near-opposite of Robert. Renly would have have been a shit soldier, but an excellent king. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talleyrand Posted August 3, 2014 Share Posted August 3, 2014 No. What a stunning and full proof argument Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Drunkard Posted August 3, 2014 Share Posted August 3, 2014 In anyway, sorry, but the whole situation is one of the most poorly-written ones in the books, second only to Rodrik Cassel taking all the garrison of Winterfell. The logistics of it doesn't make sense. I'm curious, why? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the trees have eyes Posted August 3, 2014 Share Posted August 3, 2014 I insist, if the fight is close to the sea, Stannis 200 warships with huge scorpions and cataplts could ve turned the fight to his side. Stannis does not have battleships that can pound a fortress into the ground or tear up a battlefield with salvos of high explosives. He has a fleet of galleys or sailboats that can engage other warships or land an army as on The Blackwater. The fleet would not have been a factor in the battle at all (which is why it's never mentioned before or after). The other idea mentioned here - that Stannis had 20,000 sailors to match Renly's 20,000 cavalry and so wasn't outnumbered is a mixture of pure conjecture as to the number and pure invention as to the effectiveness of putting sailors in tunics in front of heavy cavalry. Stannis had his available forces in front of Storm's End and the idea that Stannis intended to fight made Renly laugh. I don't see the problem here with acknowledging that Stannis would have lost the battle in quick time because that isn't what happened - Mel simply won it for him before it even started. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sullen Posted August 3, 2014 Share Posted August 3, 2014 Stannis does not have battleships that can pound a fortress into the ground or tear up a battlefield with salvos of high explosives. He has a fleet of galleys or sailboats that can engage other warships or land an army as on The Blackwater. The fleet would not have been a factor in the battle at all (which is why it's never mentioned before or after). The other idea mentioned here - that Stannis had 20,000 sailors to match Renly's 20,000 cavalry and so wasn't outnumbered is a mixture of pure conjecture as to the number and pure invention as to the effectiveness of putting sailors in tunics in front of heavy cavalry. Stannis had his available forces in front of Storm's End and the idea that Stannis intended to fight made Renly laugh. I don't see the problem here with acknowledging that Stannis would have lost the battle in quick time because that isn't what happened - Mel simply won it for him before it even started. If anything, those 20k sailors are going to defect to Renly when they see the heavy cavalry preparing for a charge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Eric Posted August 3, 2014 Share Posted August 3, 2014 I doubt Stannis would have even confronted Renly if not for Melisandre so the whole discussion seems kind of moot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ingelheim Posted August 3, 2014 Share Posted August 3, 2014 I've said this many times: Stannis should thank the gods he lost at the Blackwater. If he had won, either Tywin or the Tyrells would have killed him if they had been late to the battle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Eric Posted August 3, 2014 Share Posted August 3, 2014 I've said this many times: Stannis should thank the gods he lost at the Blackwater. If he had won, either Tywin or the Tyrells would have killed him if they had been late to the battle. I'm not too sure. Once he takes KL, he's in a much better position and has the advantage of being behind the walls even if the numbers are fewer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aryagonnakill#2 Posted August 3, 2014 Share Posted August 3, 2014 I've said this many times: Stannis should thank the gods he lost at the Blackwater. If he had won, either Tywin or the Tyrells would have killed him if they had been late to the battle. Your only considering military strength not politics. Once Cersei and her bastard children are dead then there is no reason to fight for them, the Tyrells would not have had any reason to join in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sullen Posted August 3, 2014 Share Posted August 3, 2014 Your only considering military strength not politics. Once Cersei and her bastard children are dead then there is no reason to fight for them, the Tyrells would not have had any reason to join in. Tommen was already hidden away, hence the Lannister cause was not done. Also, they could have installed someone else not related to the Baratheon line on the Throne, the Tyrells seem to want anyone but Stannis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wmarshal Posted August 3, 2014 Share Posted August 3, 2014 With good reason, Mace pissed on Stannis to much, and he had Florents to his ear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thelittledragonthatcould Posted August 3, 2014 Share Posted August 3, 2014 Your only considering military strength not politics. Once Cersei and her bastard children are dead then there is no reason to fight for them, the Tyrells would not have had any reason to join in. Tommen is in in Rosby Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.