Is Sansa going to have control of the Vale army by sexual manipulation?

[Selyse's Moustache Rides]

The Winds of Winter spoiler:

Even Arya does a little minor seduction in TWoW.

Having said, that, Sansa just seems too awkward to me. Then again, Darth Sansa from the show does seem to indicate that she is heading that way.

[Grail King]

She may use her sex as a ploy but I think she is wiser then Cersei yet not as educated in the politics, but as GRRM said Sansa has her wits.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j0iNPkx8vnE

[ARYa_Nym]

In an SSM GRRM pointed out that LF doesn't have an army. So just because he wants the army doesn't mean it's his or that he will be able to get him to do what he wants.

I think it's an assumption that she will get the Vale. First of all she has no right to it. Second of all I don't think they wanted to help Robb out of the goodness of their hearts. They wanted to avenge their lord. This could have already changed when they saw how Robb ended up and doubly so when they learn that it was not the Lannisters but LF and Lysa behind Jon Arryn's death. If they learn that they might rather let the Riverlands rot for example.

[Alayne's Shadow.]

In an SSM GRRM pointed out that LF doesn't have an army. So just because he wants the army doesn't mean it's his or that he will be able to get him to do what he wants.

I think it's an assumption that she will get the Vale. First of all she has no right to it. Second of all I don't think they wanted to help Robb out of the goodness of their hearts. They wanted to avenge their lord. This could have already changed when they saw how Robb ended up and doubly so when they learn that it was not the Lannisters but LF and Lysa behind Jon Arryn's death. If they learn that they might rather let the Riverlands rot for example.

I think the Vale might help Sansa because they are sympathetic to the Stark cause, first, then because she's betrothed to Lord Robert Arryn/Harrold 'The Heir', and her birthright might come at hand, politically speaking. Two for the price of one, one might say. I think LF's plan at the end of AFFC foreshadows something in that regard. Of course, there's also the point that the two most important Kingdoms in the Seven Kingdoms as of now are Dorne and the Vale, untouched by the war. But in some regard, I'm not sure Sansa will get the Vale, so I agree with you.

[ARYa_Nym]

I think the Vale might help Sansa because they are sympathetic to the Stark cause, first, then because she's betrothed to Lord Robert Arryn/Harrold 'The Heir', and her birthright might come at hand, politically speaking. Two for the price of one, one might say. I think LF's plan at the end of AFFC foreshadows something in that regard. Of course, there's also the point that the two most important Kingdoms in the Seven Kingdoms as of now are Dorne and the Vale, untouched by the war. But in some regard, I'm not sure Sansa will get the Vale, so I agree with you.

Most of the theories involving her getting the Vale don't believe that she will marry Robert or Harry. Possibly being a regent for their children in the future as Lysa had is the only way she would get right to the place and that right is dependent upon the child's survival but theories seem to say she will get the Vale not needing to do this which I think is an assumption.

Since most think the Harry plot will fail then that won't be a help. They can be sympathetic but that doesn't mean that they will be willing to fight especially when it comes to invading the North in the winter. There may be men from the Stormlands who are sympathetic for example but they aren't fighting for the Starks because of that. Stannis is getting something out of it and it's really about his goals not the Starks. The Vale has less reason than Stannis since they don't have his aspirations.

Now I can see them fighting the Others because they have a common goal but a scenario where they invade the North, free the Riverlands (even though Lysa murdered Jon), or help Aegon be king so Sansa can be his queen I see as assumptions.

[chrisdaw]

Using sex to get what she wanted backfired spectacularly when she was arrested, forced to endure the walk of shame and contend with a trial by battle.

Yeah, after she succeeded even more spectacularly by saving hers, Jaime's and her children's lives when she had Lancel kill Robert through sexual manipulation. Even if we're to attribute Cersei's ultimate downfall to her use of sex she's still way out in front, without it she'd be a head on a spike. But that's conflating two separate things, like Arianne, she used sex to gain control of people, and in this she and Arianne were extremely successful, what that control is used for is another thing entirely.

[Annara Snow]

Yeah, after she succeeded even more spectacularly by saving hers, Jaime's and her children's lives when she had Lancel kill Robert through sexual manipulation. Even if we're to attribute Cersei's ultimate downfall to her use of sex she's still way out in front, without it she'd be a head on a spike. But that's conflating two separate things, like Arianne, she used sex to gain control of people, and in this she and Arianne were extremely successful, what that control is used for is another thing entirely.

Cersei only started sleeping with Lancel after Robert was already dead. She wasn't using sex with Lancel to get anything except sex with Lancel, because she needed a Jaime replacement in her bed.

Besides, the idea that manipulating a hapless 16-year old virgin boy who was her social inferior, a Lannister and told by his father to obey Cersei in the first place, plus was constantly bullied by Robert, is an example of Cersei's brilliance, is hilarious. If she needed sexual manipulation on top of all that even to get him to do her bidding, she's really pathetic.

As a matter of fact, the very fact that she feels she must resort to prostituting herself to get what she wants despite the fact that she is the Queen Regent and comes from the richest family in Westeros, makes her look really sad. What did her "best weapon" get her? Trying to seduce Ned failed spectacularly and was a really stupid idea in the first place. Who else did she seduce and successfully manipulate to get what she wants, other than Jaime when they were 15? Osney Kettleblack? Another social inferior, and LF's spy, who went on to demand sex from her, which showed that she really wasn't achieving any power by sleeping with him, she was losing it; and who therefore gained something over her that lead to him revealing it and getting her arrested by the Faith. She's been a total failure.

[Lyanna Stark]

I read the title as "Is Sansa going to have control of the Vale army of sexual manipulation?" and I thought damn, that's a wierd army to field. Just loads of fiends hell bent on sexual manipulation.

[Karmarni]

I read the title as "Is Sansa going to have control of the Vale army of sexual manipulation?" and I thought damn, that's a wierd army to field. Just loads of fiends hell bent on sexual manipulation.

That would be fun! Wight-like, sex-starved Sansa-slaves. She would use her inherent warg abilities to make 'em love her.

[Lee-Sensei]

I think the Vale might help Sansa because they are sympathetic to the Stark cause, first, then because she's betrothed to Lord Robert Arryn/Harrold 'The Heir', and her birthright might come at hand, politically speaking. Two for the price of one, one might say. I think LF's plan at the end of AFFC foreshadows something in that regard. Of course, there's also the point that the two most important Kingdoms in the Seven Kingdoms as of now are Dorne and the Vale, untouched by the war. But in some regard, I'm not sure Sansa will get the Vale, so I agree with you.

The thing I don't get about his plan is, why would sansa and Harry keep him around. Harry doesn't need a regent so once he takes over the vale, lf loses his power.

[RenlysRainbowGuard]

Personally, I hope that if Sansa does have sex it is with someone she fully wants to have sex with. It doesn't have to be mind-blowing, pornstar-style sex (a la Asha or Dany), it can be disappointing or sweet or gentle or whatever. As long as Sansa's happy with it, I'll be happy for her. Sansa really grew on me as a character and I hope nothing terrible happens to her.

Agreed. Sansa is one of my favorites, mostly because she reminds me of how I might have behaved/thought at 14, if I grew up in Westeros. I want her to lose her virginity when she gets married to a "true knight."

[CharlesW]

Under the tutelage of LF, I think she will learn to use everything to get what she wants.

[Karmarni]

Under the tutelage of LF, I think she will learn to use everything to get what she wants.

And perhaps that is true, but to answer the topic with that in mind - I don't think Sansa "wants" control of the "Vale army". She wants to be loved and to go home. Commanding a group of fighting men seems out of character. So far, Littlefinger has helped her learn to lie better and to read the desires of men better. I don't see that much "tutelage."

[Dya of Oldstones]

I don't think she will ever command an army, but since I see her as a political animal I think she could have influence on those who do. I don't think she will outright sexually manipulate, but I'm sure she will get more savvy about using what she knows to move herself into a position where she can gain more leverage on her behalf.

It wouldn't surprise me if she gets a practical education from Myranda whether they end up as bed mates or not. In the controversial chapter, I can see how even some sage advice such as learning about moon tea and marriage survival tips on her emerging sexuality may raise a few eyebrows but I would more than welcome it.

I'm not ready to write Sweet Robin off just yet, and I think she may do her best to protect him. As much as I would love to see her off PedoFinger, I think we may have to wait until ASOS. My pipe dream is she leads him to Stannis the Mannis for justice.