pobeb Posted August 3, 2014 Author Share Posted August 3, 2014 2) There is literally no reason for Maege or Glover to be in KL. To do anything meaningful, they need to be north of the Twins Did you completely overlook the wealth of evidence I submitted? :stillsick: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Universal Sword Donor Posted August 3, 2014 Share Posted August 3, 2014 HAHA. I don't think you're understanding. He was safest while he had Margery. You are saying he was scared, if he was scared why would he give up his only leverage.......BECAUSE HE HAS ALL THE POWER . The fact that he makes Tarly swear an oath and then gives her up is the most important piece of information because it shows that even facing an army he still HAS ALL THE POWER. If you think he has all the power, I would surmise you don't know how medieval or ASOIAF warfare works. Tarly and Tyrell have no reason to kill the Faith Militant, but he has every reason not to until they gets Margaery. A basic breakdown of the "forces" available to the sparrow vs what Tarly and Mace can field is laughable, to the point of Stannis v Wildlings, except that Tarly and Mace have more numbers and are probably better equipped. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pobeb Posted August 3, 2014 Author Share Posted August 3, 2014 Another point. I really like the theory and think it would be awesome but 2 questions that i'm hoping you could answer. 1. Isn't Cersei no longer queen because Margery is queen now. And it hasn't yet been decided who the new regent would be after Kevans death. Because if she is not then wouldn't this give her the right to not be defended by the Kings gaurd at this point which would actually benefit her if you are correct because now she can get the seven knights to defend her. 2. If Maege Mormont and Galbart Glover are currently with Howland in KL isn't it safe to assume that they are aware of Jons true parentage (assuming L+R=J). If they are would that indicate they are still willing to follow Robbs will and attempt to crown Jon. A funny irony would be if Cersei doesnt use the kingsgaurd because then Margery could use un-gregor to defend her which is the opposite of what Cersei wanted. :laugh: 1) Cersei is the Queen Regent - a title made more powerful in the wake of Kevan's death. 2) Yes, it is safe to assume they know R+L=J. Robb named him King, Howland names him King. I don't see where the difference in will is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Universal Sword Donor Posted August 3, 2014 Share Posted August 3, 2014 I really gotta ask at this point: Are you reading the source material at all? How do you keep missing this: Read it. SLOWLY. Everything you need to know is there. I can't help you any further than that, sorry. Look, the theory itself is completely crackpot. Only so much I can argue against from there. If you think that Randyll Tarly is a holy man sworn to oaths to the High Septon, well, I can't say much else. His entire backstory and character description is despicable. There is literally no redeeming point other than loyalty to his liege lord. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lyannaisalive Posted August 3, 2014 Share Posted August 3, 2014 If you think he has all the power, I would surmise you don't know how medieval or ASOIAF warfare works. Tarly and Tyrell have no reason to kill the Faith Militant, but he has every reason not to until they gets Margaery. A basic breakdown of the "forces" available to the sparrow vs what Tarly and Mace can field is laughable, to the point of Stannis v Wildlings, except that Tarly and Mace have more numbers and are probably better equipped. Thats my point though. The HS was much better off keeping Margery but he didnt. He made Tarly swear an oath and than gave them his only protection. He did this because he does not fear them because he has the power and they know it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pobeb Posted August 3, 2014 Author Share Posted August 3, 2014 Look, the theory itself is completely crackpot. Only so much I can argue against from there. If you think that Randyll Tarly is a holy man sworn to oaths to the High Septon, well, I can't say much else. His entire backstory and character description is despicable. There is literally no redeeming point other than loyalty to his liege lord. I'm just realizing... You are Hippocras 2.0 :lmao: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Universal Sword Donor Posted August 3, 2014 Share Posted August 3, 2014 Did you completely overlook the wealth of evidence I submitted? :stillsick: Your wealth of evidence is somewhat thin, and the need for them to be in the north vastly outweighs the paucity of 'evidence' you have proffered Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Universal Sword Donor Posted August 3, 2014 Share Posted August 3, 2014 Thats my point though. The HS was much better off keeping Margery but he didnt. He made Tarly swear an oath and than gave them his only protection. He did this because he does not fear them because he has the power and they know it. No he knows he'll get killed if he doesn't hand her over. If he does hand her over, he stays in power a bit longer and might not die. If it's otherwise, he is completely delusional. Tarly's army is clearly the power in KL when he arrives Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Universal Sword Donor Posted August 3, 2014 Share Posted August 3, 2014 You are Hippocras 2.0 :lmao: I don't like Hippocras and I guarantee you I am likely taller and drink more*. *drinking more than someone name hippocras is ironic and funny because he is named after a type of alcohol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lyannaisalive Posted August 3, 2014 Share Posted August 3, 2014 1) Cersei is the Queen Regent - a title made more powerful in the wake of Kevan's death. 2) Yes, it is safe to assume they know R+L=J. Robb named him King, Howland names him King. I don't see where the difference in will is. 1. I always thought it was stripped of her and now that Mace has the more power than her I wouldn't think he would name her regent. 2. I assumed you were saying they were going to name him King of the Iron throne. Thats where I wonder where their willingness comes in because I thought they wanted to make him KITN because im not sure how their learning he is a targ would play out seeing how they all thought he was a Stark. So is Howland in KL to make Jon KITN or out him on the IT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forestchilde Posted August 3, 2014 Share Posted August 3, 2014 Absolute power is obviously a bit much, but when you can more or less burn an important ally to death with impunity and no justification I'd say you're sitting pretty. Also Kevan is a prudent man in a weak position. The lannister troops either went home or to Dstone. They are effectively gone and he's surrounded with Tyrell bannermen. There's a reason why Tarly is acting like a swinging dick. He and Mace both have Tyrell armies, probably around 20K men, near the capital. The Sparrow turned over Margaery for a reason. He's outgunned by a *long* shot. I agree with you on almost all of this. He obviously doesn't have Aerys' power, but consider- Jamie really believes the guy may have put his sister, the queen regent, to death. Tarly is a flopping fish, as you suggest, in fact he even poured...well you know. So he needs no reason, he just is. But I think the HS turned over Margaery because, in part, the armies are there as you say, but also because her story sounds much more credible than Cersei's. As far as power of the Faith Militant goes, remember Genna Lannister's little speech to Jamie (I'm paraphrasing), "Why the hell did Cersei rearm the faith militant? Is she out of her freaking mind? They gave the Targaryens fits despite thousands of them being killed." Jamie: "I'd forgotten that." Genna: "You and your sister, both, dimwit." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pobeb Posted August 3, 2014 Author Share Posted August 3, 2014 Your wealth of evidence is somewhat thin Literally, excluding the trial, 11 pages (in Word) worth of evidence in favor of disgused Northmen. 11 pages. Thin. Ok. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lyannaisalive Posted August 3, 2014 Share Posted August 3, 2014 No he knows he'll get killed if he doesn't hand her over. If he does hand her over, he stays in power a bit longer and might not die. If it's otherwise, he is completely delusional. Tarly's army is clearly the power in KL when he arrives But how would they kill him. they would not attack because he could harm Marg but he gave them that ability after handing her over but they wont do it because he has the power Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Universal Sword Donor Posted August 3, 2014 Share Posted August 3, 2014 I really gotta ask at this point: Are you reading the source material at all? How do you keep missing this: Read it. SLOWLY. Everything you need to know is there. I can't help you any further than that, sorry. I'm not missing anything. I'm actually reading into what is going on. Kevan is bitching out because he actually has less power than the sparro Tarly got Margaery because the sparrow couldn't resist him. Mace might be playing the game, but it doesn't mean it's necessary. Tarly is literally laughing at this shit. Mace is not the greatest leader. Kevan is dead after ADWD. Tell me again why this convo matter at all. First thing that happens is probably going to be Tarly: 'Kill these fuckers. They are annoying." Mace: "Sounds good" Maege and Glover being in KL just makes no sense at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pobeb Posted August 3, 2014 Author Share Posted August 3, 2014 So is Howland in KL to make Jon KITN or out him on the IT. Ruler of Westeros, both North and South. Lord of the Seven Kingdoms. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Universal Sword Donor Posted August 3, 2014 Share Posted August 3, 2014 But how would they kill him. they would not attack because he could harm Marg but he gave them that ability after handing her over but they wont do it because he has the power I'll try and put this in simple order. When the sparrow has Margaery, no one can hurt him. When Tarly has Margaery, no one can hurt her. After the sparrow loses Margaery, Tarly can hurt the sparrow with relative impunity. His army is large, professional and brutal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Universal Sword Donor Posted August 3, 2014 Share Posted August 3, 2014 Ruler of Westeros, both North and South. Lord of the Seven Kingdoms. And that makes literally no fucking sense. That means that Robb is saying "I'm KotN, but my heir is ruler of the seven kingdoms and I could have absolutely no idea about it" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pobeb Posted August 3, 2014 Author Share Posted August 3, 2014 Maege and Glover being in KL just makes no sense at all. 11 pgs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forestchilde Posted August 3, 2014 Share Posted August 3, 2014 Another thing. As Kevan points out to them, they really can't afford to attack the Faith Militant, they would have a huge bloodbath on their hands. Armies can't act to indriscriminately slaughter the poorfolk and the recognized leader of the state religion. The HS knows this. Their hands are tied. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lyannaisalive Posted August 3, 2014 Share Posted August 3, 2014 I'll try and put this in simple order. When the sparrow has Margaery, no one can hurt him. When Tarly has Margaery, no one can hurt her. After the sparrow loses Margaery, Tarly can hurt the sparrow with relative impunity. His army is large, professional and brutal.y your still not answering the question. If They cant hurt him while the HS has Margery why then would the HS give her up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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