R+L=J v.94

[Jon_Samwell_Snow]

And those dates it makes me think that Ned and Lyanna's talk about Robert was before Harrenhal.

Just before or during Harrenhal.

[Jon Weirgaryen]

Just before or during Harrenhal.

There's another possibility. Only the betrothal could not have been at Harrenhal, since Lord Rickard played The Stark in Winterfell at that time.

[Jon_Samwell_Snow]

There's another possibility. Only the betrothal could not have been at Harrenhal, since Lord Rickard played The Stark in Winterfell at that time.

Or after Harrenhal...depending on the timeline.

[BearQueen87]

There's another possibility. Only the betrothal could not have been at Harrenhal, since Lord Rickard played The Stark in Winterfell at that time.

So Ned comes home to WF from the Vale, shortly (up to a year) after Mya is born, bringing Robert's suit for Lyanna's hand.

Lord Stark agrees

Ned and Lyanna have a conversation about Robert at WF

All four Stark children go off to Harrnehal for the Tourney, Lord Stark stays behind in WF.

The events of Hanrrenhal, as we know them.

Ned takes Benjen back to WF, Lyanna and Brandon stay in the Riverlands

Ned meets back up with Robert in the Vale, engagement between Baratheon and Stark set.

Lyanna is "taken" from Harrnehal/someplace close just before Brandon's wedding to Cat

Brandon rides off to KL

Lord Stark joins Brandon soon after (was he at Riverrun for the wedding, I presume?)

Lord Stark and Brandon die

Jon Arryn refuses to give up his two former wards, Robert and Ned.

Banners are called

Hell breaks loose

Yes? No? Maybe so?

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

So Ned comes home to WF from the Vale, shortly (up to a year) after Mya is born, bringing Robert's suit for Lyanna's hand.

Lord Stark agrees

Ned and Lyanna have a conversation about Robert at WF

All four Stark children go off to Harrnehal for the Tourney, Lord Stark stays behind in WF.

The events of Hanrrenhal, as we know them.

Ned takes Benjen back to WF, Lyanna and Brandon stay in the Riverlands

Ned meets back up with Robert in the Vale, engagement between Baratheon and Stark set.

Lyanna is "taken" from Harrnehal/someplace close just before Brandon's wedding to Cat

Brandon rides off to KL

Lord Stark joins Brandon soon after (was he at Riverrun for the wedding, I presume?)

Lord Stark and Brandon die

Jon Arryn refuses to give up his two former wards, Robert and Ned.

Banners are called

Hell breaks loose

Yes? No? Maybe so?

If the betrothal was before Harrenhal, then between "Ned and Lyanna have a conversation about Robert at WF" and "All four Stark children go off to Harrnehal for the Tourney, Lord Stark stays behind in WF." some time must have Ned came from the Eyrie to Harrenhal, after all.

The rest seems to fit ..

[Jon_Samwell_Snow]

So Ned comes home to WF from the Vale, shortly (up to a year) after Mya is born, bringing Robert's suit for Lyanna's hand.

Lord Stark agrees

Ned and Lyanna have a conversation about Robert at WF

All four Stark children go off to Harrnehal for the Tourney, Lord Stark stays behind in WF.

The events of Hanrrenhal, as we know them.

Ned takes Benjen back to WF, Lyanna and Brandon stay in the Riverlands

Ned meets back up with Robert in the Vale, engagement between Baratheon and Stark set.

Lyanna is "taken" from Harrnehal/someplace close just before Brandon's wedding to Cat

Brandon rides off to KL

Lord Stark joins Brandon soon after (was he at Riverrun for the wedding, I presume?)

Lord Stark and Brandon die

Jon Arryn refuses to give up his two former wards, Robert and Ned.

Banners are called

Hell breaks loose

Yes? No? Maybe so?

It seems to fit the the timeline. We're forgetting Benjen.

[BearQueen87]

If the betrothal was before Harrenhal, then between "Ned and Lyanna have a conversation about Robert at WF" and "All four Stark children go off to Harrnehal for the Tourney, Lord Stark stays behind in WF." some time must have Ned came from the Eyrie to Harrenhal, after all.

The rest seems to fit ..

Blah. Alright so then with that addition:

Ned comes home to WF from the Vale, shortly (up to a year) after Mya is born, bringing Robert's suit for Lyanna's hand.

Lord Stark agrees

Ned and Lyanna have a conversation about Robert at WF

Ned goes back to the Vale with Lord Stark's approval for Robert and Lyanna to marry.

All four Stark children go off to Harrnehal (3 from the North, Ned from the Eyrie) for the Tourney, Lord Stark stays behind in WF.

The events of Hanrrenhal, as we know them.

Ned takes Benjen back to WF, Lyanna and Brandon stay in the Riverlands

Ned meets back up with Robert in the Vale, engagement between Baratheon and Stark set.

Lyanna is "taken" from Harrnehal/someplace close just before Brandon's wedding to Cat

Brandon rides off to KL

Lord Stark joins Brandon soon after (was he at Riverrun for the wedding, I presume?)

Lord Stark and Brandon die

Jon Arryn refuses to give up his two former wards, Robert and Ned.

Banners are called

Hell breaks loose

We're forgetting Benjen.

No he's there. But Ben is so young that he's not really a player in these events except for after HH when he might have been assisting R and L communicate. For the Rebellion itself, he is the Stark in Winterfell.

[Jon Weirgaryen]

...

The events of Hanrrenhal, as we know them.

Ned takes Benjen back to WF, Lyanna and Brandon stay in the Riverlands

+ Brandon and Petyr duel, Lysa and Petyr make a baby.

+ Brandon sets off to meet the party of the 200 tops of Northern Nobility travelling south for the Stark-Tully wedding

Ned meets back up with Robert in the Vale, engagement between Baratheon and Stark set.

Lyanna is "taken" from Harrnehal/someplace close just before Brandon's wedding to Cat

Brandon rides off to KL

Lord Stark joins Brandon soon after (was he at Riverrun for the wedding, I presume?)

Rickard (and 200 Northern nobility iirc) were on the way to the wedding (App says).

Soon after is a matter of weeks, if Rickard was north of the Trident or of just about one week, if he was at the Trident before having turned west to Riverrun.

For things to happen speedy, this is my own favorite space-and-time constellation: Brandon got the news of Lyanna being robbed when he was at the Crossroads, about to turn north but hastened south instead. When he put on his show at King's Landing, news summoning Lord Rickard reached that one also at the Crossroads, and one week later, they all meet in King's Landing and die. Possibly.

[Suzanna Stormborn]

No he's there. But Ben is so young that he's not really a player in these events except for after HH when he might have been assisting R and L communicate. For the Rebellion itself, he is the Stark in Winterfell.

But there is no solid evidence of this right? I always get confused about the path line of Benjen after the tourney.

[BearQueen87]

+ Brandon and Petyr duel, Lysa and Petyr make a baby.

+ Brandon sets off to meet the party of the 200 tops of Northern Nobility travelling south for the Stark-Tully wedding

Rickard (and 200 Northern nobility iirc) were on the way to the wedding (App says).

Ahhhhh. That makes sense. Kept trying to fit Lord Stark into the picture and was like "ummmmm..."

For things to happen speedy, this is my own favorite space-and-time constellation: Brandon got the news of Lyanna being robbed when he was at the Crossroads, about to turn north but hastened south instead. When he put on his show at King's Landing, news summoning Lord Rickard reached that one also at the Crossroads, and one week later, they all meet in King's Landing and die. Possibly.

I like it. Has a certain amount of poetry to it as well, the idea of being at a crossroads. The realm will soon find itself at a crossroads as well.

[BearQueen87]

But there is no solid evidence of this right? I always get confused about the path line of Benjen after the tourney.

I don't think there is solid evidence. But with Brandon staying in the Riverlands for his wedding to Cat, Ned heading back to the Vale probably after taking Benjen home to WF, and Lord Stark going south for Brandon's wedding, then it makes sense that Ben stayed in WF until after the Rebellion and then joined the NW, something he had been considering since HH.

ETA: 2000 post!

[Dorian Martell]

hodor!

[Jon Weirgaryen]

But there is no solid evidence of this right? I always get confused about the path line of Benjen after the tourney.

Of course there is solid evidence for Benjen being The Stark in Winterfell during the Robellion:

Benjen Stark, Lord Eddard's only surviving sibling who had stayed in Winterfell throughout the war (based on Eddard’s maxim that "there must always be a Stark in Winterfell"[i: 53]), joined the Watch shortly afterwards (SSC and SSC).

Events Prior to the Books

[Lonin]

Blah. Alright so then with that addition:

Ned comes home to WF from the Vale, shortly (up to a year) after Mya is born, bringing Robert's suit for Lyanna's hand.

Lord Stark agrees

Ned and Lyanna have a conversation about Robert at WF

Ned goes back to the Vale with Lord Stark's approval for Robert and Lyanna to marry.

All four Stark children go off to Harrnehal (3 from the North, Ned from the Eyrie) for the Tourney, Lord Stark stays behind in WF.

The events of Hanrrenhal, as we know them.

Ned takes Benjen back to WF, Lyanna and Brandon stay in the Riverlands

Ned meets back up with Robert in the Vale, engagement between Baratheon and Stark set.

Lyanna is "taken" from Harrnehal/someplace close just before Brandon's wedding to Cat

Brandon rides off to KL

Lord Stark joins Brandon soon after (was he at Riverrun for the wedding, I presume?)

Lord Stark and Brandon die

Jon Arryn refuses to give up his two former wards, Robert and Ned.

Banners are called

Hell breaks loose

Timelines are always fun, looks ok.. except why is Ned taking Benjen back to WF? Benjen is around 12(?) that seems old enough to return alone to WF with Stark household guards.

[Ser Leftwich]

Timelines are always fun, looks ok.. except why is Ned taking Benjen back to WF? Benjen is around 12(?) that seems old enough to return alone to WF with Stark household guards.

This is a good point, as we know there were plenty of Stark banner-men/soldiers there who could have escorted Benjen and/or Lyanna back home.

“Under Harren’s roof he ate and drank with the wolves, and many of their sworn swords besides, barrowdown men and moose and bears and mermen." - ASoS p. 340

[Lady Gwynhyfvar]

And those dates it makes me think that Ned and Lyanna's talk about Robert was before Harrenhal.

Those dates (which are the dates that appear in the wiki) seem to be incorrect. In AGoT Cat refers to May as a girl of seventeen or eighteen years. In AFfC she is described as nineteen. That gives an approximate birth of late 280 or early 281, meaning that that the most likely timeline is the one Mtn Lion offered.

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

Those dates (which are the dates that appear in the wiki) seem to be incorrect. In AGoT Cat refers to May as a girl of seventeen or eighteen years. In AFfC she is described as nineteen. That gives an approximate birth of late 280 or early 281, meaning that that the most likely timeline is the one Mtn Lion offered.

Mya Stone

Mya Stone was noted to be 17 or 18 years old by Catelyn Tully in 298AC.^[36] In addition, Ned Stark remembers, in 298AC, that Mya Stone was 17 or 18 years old, and that Robert Baratheon had been younger than that when he fathered her.^[8] Being 17 or 18 years old in 298 would give Mya the following options:

• 16 turning 17 in 298AC, placing her birth in 281AC
• 17 turning 18 in 298AC, placing her birth in 280AC
• 18 turning 19 in 298AC, placing her birth in 279AC

Robert Baratheon was born in 263AC (see Robert Baratheon). The three possible birth years for Mya would then give the following options:

• Mya was born in 279AC, placing her conception in 278AC
  • Robert Baratheon would have been 15 years old
• Mya was born in 280AC, placing her conception in 279AC
  • Robert Baratheon would have been 16 years old
• Mya was born in 281AC, placing her conception in 280AC
  • Robert Baratheon would have been 17 years old

Since it is stated that Robert was younger than 17 when fathering, thus conceiving, Mya, the year 281AC as a possible birth year for Mya is eliminated. It can now be stated that Mya was born in either 280AC or 279AC.

The appendix of a Storm of Swords notes Mya to be 19 years old.^[14] Since it’s unknown whether this appendix indicated Mya is 19 in 299AC or whether it indicates that she was 19 in 300AC, (the appendix usually lists characters as the age they have in the beginning of the book, however, Mya isn’t mentioned, nor does she appear, until after the turning of the year, creating the insecurity in her specific case) several options are left for Mya:

• Being 19 in 299AC
  • 18 turning 19 in 299AC, placing her birth in 280AC
  • 19 turning 20 in 299AC, placing her birth in 279AC
• Being 19 in 300AC
  • 18 turning 19 in 300AC, placing her birth in 281AC
  • 19 turning 20 in 300AC, placing her birth in 280AC

Concluded can be that Mya was born in 280AC or 279AC, though it has been disproven that Mya could have been born in 281AC, since Robert would then not have been younger than Mya was when fathering her.

No further specifications can be given. Mya was thus born in either 279AC or 280AC.

Note: Both options also align with the fact that Mya is able to remember Robert,^[35] something which she wouldn´t have been able to do if she had been born in 281AC, since humans cannot remember something that happened when they were only 1 year old. Robert left the Eyrie in 282AC to go to war, and has not been mentioned to have visited Mya afterwards.

[BearQueen87]

Of course there is solid evidence for Benjen being The Stark in Winterfell during the Robellion:

Events Prior to the Books

I mean in text, but that works. Wiki says the same thing

This is a good point, as we know there were plenty of Stark banner-men/soldiers there who could have escorted Benjen and/or Lyanna back home.

“Under Harren’s roof he ate and drank with the wolves, and many of their sworn swords besides, barrowdown men and moose and bears and mermen." - ASoS p. 340

Then maybe Ned traveled back to the Eyrie after HH, and Ben went on his way to WF

Those dates (which are the dates that appear in the wiki) seem to be incorrect. In AGoT Cat refers to May as a girl of seventeen or eighteen years. In AFfC she is described as nineteen. That gives an approximate birth of late 280 or early 281, meaning that that the most likely timeline is the one Mtn Lion offered.

Mya Stone

Oi vey. Now I'm just confused. Could just split the difference and say 280AC?

[Lady Gwynhyfvar]

May Stone

Thank you for linking your wiki page, but I have to say I disagree with the calculations.

Mya is noted as being 17 or 18 in late 298, placing her birth in 280 or 281. She is noted as nineteen in early 300, placing her birth in early 281 (or 280 if she will turn 20 in 300) Ned's musing that she is 17 or 18 in late 298 and "older than Robert had been when he fathered her" is in line with those years and certainly does not rule out a birth year of early 281, since as I'm sure you know there are nine months between "fathering" a child and its birth. In 279 Robert would have been 15/16 if he was born in 263. In 280 he was 16/17, either of which would fit Ned's statement. If any year can be ruled out I believe it is 279, as by the year 300 a child born in 279 would be nearing her 21st nameday. As for the memories of an infant, who can say? She remembers a man tossing her up in the air. That is certainly in line with the type of memory children can have of their earliest life and really can't be used scientifically to rule a particular scenario out.

The timeline Mtn Lion posted is one that has been discussed here frequently in the past. There are reasons beyond Mya's age that would indicate that Ned did not travel to Winterfell prior to the ToH, not the least of which would be the weather (assuming that "False Spring" is what comes after winter) Imo, the logical conclusion based upon the all the clues text is that Ned traveled to Winterfell with his siblings after the Tourney to present Robert's suit, and then returned to the Vale to deliver his father's acceptance to Robert, placing him there once more at the outbreak of the Rebellion.

[BearQueen87]

I honestly couldn't remember why we were talking about Mya in the first place, so I went back to most recent thread. If, we accept MntLion and Lady Gwyn, Lyanna meets Robert for the first time at HH, hears about his nature including the recent birth of his bastard, and says to Ned back at Winterfell "Love is sweet..." ect, is she alluding to something else in her own life about love (something to do with Rhaegar?)