Teach me about the scrapped time-skip GRRM was planning at one point

[Robb_Warged]

I've read some things here and there saying that at one point GRRM was going to jump the story ahead a few years and then decided not to do that

Can you give me more info on this abandoned story direction?

[joluoto2]

Basically GRRM was planning to have a 5-year gap after Storm, and we'd learn about the 5 years in flashbacks. It would age up the child characters (and Gerge felt they needed to be older), but it didn't fit for several storylines. For the Wall it certainly didn't fit to have a gap, and for Dorne, immideate reactions to Oberyn's death were needed.

[Trogdor Targaryen]

So, epic battles that should have been fought by grown men wielding Valyrian greatswords will now be fought between adolescents who are shorter that the ancient blades they are fighting with?

[Robb_Warged]

So, epic battles that should have been fought by grown men wielding Valyrian greatswords will now be fought between adolescents who are shorter that the ancient blades they are fighting with?

This is what he gets for killing Robb :bang:

Basically GRRM was planning to have a 5-year gap after Storm, and we'd learn about the 5 years in flashbacks. It would age up the child characters (and Gerge felt they needed to be older), but it didn't fit for several storylines. For the Wall it certainly didn't fit to have a gap, and for Dorne, immideate reactions to Oberyn's death were needed.

Thanks man. Makes sense

[Hodor's Dragon]

It would age up the child characters (and Gerge felt they needed to be older). . . .

I think the main child characters that needed to be aged up were the black and red character, the cream and gold character, and the green and bronze character.

Especially the black and red character. I believe that character is going to play a crucial role in the climactic events.

[Hangover of the Morning]

Basically GRRM was planning to have a 5-year gap after Storm, and we'd learn about the 5 years in flashbacks. It would age up the child characters (and Gerge felt they needed to be older), but it didn't fit for several storylines. For the Wall it certainly didn't fit to have a gap, and for Dorne, immideate reactions to Oberyn's death were needed.

Thanks a lot for the gist. I don't know about the Wall, but so far I haven't ready anything in the Dornish chapters that would be of any consequence (besides Arianne's nipples of course). :)

I trust George that he know what he is doing and that the 5-year gap really didn't work but I do have my doubts. He wrote the first three books with the gap and the ending for the major characters already mapped out. Now, he scratched the gap, but kept the ending the same. That's bound to have consequences or not feel natural, right? I can't really think of any storyline that could not benefit from a few year gap after ASoS (perhaps not full 5 years but 2-3).

[joluoto2]

Thanks a lot for the gist. I don't know about the Wall, but so far I haven't ready anything in the Dornish chapters that would be of any consequence (besides Arianne's nipples of course). :)

I trust George that he know what he is doing and that the 5-year gap really didn't work but I do have my doubts. He wrote the first three books with the gap and the ending for the major characters already mapped out. Now, he scratched the gap, but kept the ending the same. That's bound to have consequences or not feel natural, right? I can't really think of any storyline that could not benefit from a few year gap after ASoS (perhaps not full 5 years but 2-3).

Basically nothing happening at the Wall or the North in 5 years would be a problem, no?

[Hangover of the Morning]

Basically nothing happening at the Wall or the North in 5 years would be a problem, no?

Jon reorganising the Watch, remanning the castles along the Wall, dealing with wildlings, subordinates etc. I like Jon's chapter in Dance but it felt like some of the things happened way faster than realistically should have (e.g. Stannis winning the loyalty of the mountain clans, Jon already having reports from the castles that he only just sent people to in the previous chapter).

Generally, a lot of AFfC and ADwD chapters (Brienne, Dorne, Asha and Danny in particular) felt like a live stream footage of fairly uninteresting events. Nothing that felt like we needed to witness this first-hand rather than just hear about it later on.

[Happy Ent]

Here’s my guess:

5 year gap covers:

Arya level to lvl 20 Assassin in the order of Faceless Men.

Sansa levels to lvl 14 Schemer/Diplomat at the Eyrie under Littlefinger’s tutelage, establishing a twisted hold over both the young Lord Arryn and Baelish himself.

Jon reorganises the Watch, levelling to lvl 14 Commander/General, starts integrate the Wildlings and resettle them in the gift. His subordinate Brothers become increasingly mutinous.

Dany levels to lvl 15 Queen while ruling Astapor, but must finally flee.

Tyrion — ah, there’s the rub. Tyrion spends 5 years travelling to Dany?

Jaime is killed by Brienne.

Victarion harshly rules the Iron Islands and then decides to travel to Dany.

Dorne sends Quentyn, who dies.

Varys kills Kevan, Cersei rules Kings Landing for 5 years in increasing disarray.

Bran levels to lvl 40 druid.

[Cas Stark]

Basically nothing happening at the Wall or the North in 5 years would be a problem, no?

He could have just picked up with Jon in command and let us know that resentment toward his wildling policies had been growing.

You would have to lose the Theon arc though, because Boltons wouldn't have waited 5 years to marry a fake Arya, which would have been a shame. And, you might also wonder if Theon could have even stayed sane or alive for another 5 years of Ramsay.

I would think the biggest problem is Stannis...would it be realistic that he's not done anything in 5 years...but sit at the wall and brood and gather up some few northern fighting men.

ETA....yes, Tyrion ambling around for 5 years in Essos would be a problem too, but I still think less so than Stannis.

I tend to think it was a mistake for him to abandon the gap because now he's mired in practically a day to day timeframe of what happens to everyone which is why we have seen so little movement in the majority of the POVs and storylines.

[Robb_Warged]

Here’s my guess:

5 year gap covers:

Arya level to lvl 20 Assassin in the order of Faceless Men.

Sansa levels to lvl 14 Schemer/Diplomat at the Eyrie under Littlefinger’s tutelage, establishing a twisted hold over both the young Lord Arryn and Baelish himself.

Jon reorganises the Watch, levelling to lvl 14 Commander/General, starts integrate the Wildlings and resettle them in the gift. His subordinate Brothers become increasingly mutinous.

Dany levels to lvl 15 Queen while ruling Astapor, but must finally flee.

Tyrion — ah, there’s the rub. Tyrion spends 5 years travelling to Dany?

Jaime is killed by Brienne.

Victarion harshly rules the Iron Islands and then decides to travel to Dany.

Dorne sends Quentyn, who dies.

Varys kills Kevan, Cersei rules Kings Landing for 5 years in increasing disarray.

Bran levels to lvl 40 druid.

Lol I like it

[Ser Eric]

The five year gap made absolutely no sense whatsoever. I'm glad common sense prevailed and he scrapped it. It did create some issues in Dance (Too much of Tyrion and Dany) but overall the story will be better for it.

[Mad Madam Mim]

You can see where the gap would have been in many arcs. A lot of the characters are in some sort of "training" which the 5 year gap presumably should have glossed over with a montage of the 'highlights' set to dodgy 80's music.

Ayra- training with the faceless men. Presumably she was supposed to emerge after 5 years as a fully-fledged assassin.

Sansa- keeping low in the Vale and learning the 'game' from Littlefinger. She would transform from a young girl to a beautiful woman and would be an appropriate age to be considered marriageable.

Bran and Rickon- not been that fussed about these arcs but i guess Bran would spend 5 years as a tree being really good at...whatever trees do.

Dany- learns about being a good ruler in Mehreen. Her dragons will have had time to get nice and big.

Jon- Two minds about Jon, I wonder if he was supposed to spend 5 years in the Nightwatch and then at the end of the 5 years take over as Lord Commander (when he would be a more credible candidate) or spend that time as lord Commander and doing a bang-up job.

Cersei- has 5 years to stew and get even more batshit crazy. Tommen will also grow up and be old enough to rule on his own and increasingly listening to Margaery's advice over Cersei's.

Its shame in a way that this wasn't possible as i do think a lot of these characters are too young but it would have been an absolute pig to write and disjointed to read. In my head I age the young folk up anyway.

[JonCon's Red Beard]

Everything fits but Stannis. Jon reorganising the watch in five years is believable. Stannis, getting his ass frozen up there for five years, doesn't.

[TheNinjaDC]

So, epic battles that should have been fought by grown men wielding Valyrian greatswords will now be fought between adolescents who are shorter that the ancient blades they are fighting with?

Well, at least Jon has freakish "release the dragon" strength. As a 16 year old he is stronger than most fully grown men twice his weight.

[Mad Madam Mim]

Everything fits but Stannis. Jon reorganising the watch in five years is believable. Stannis, getting his ass frozen up there for five years, doesn't.

Maybe Stannis spends 5 years sulking on Dragonstone after Blackwater and slowly regrouping? I assume his journey to the North was supposed to happen after the 5 years (ie. in present time).

[Hangover of the Morning]

Everything fits but Stannis. Jon reorganising the watch in five years is believable. Stannis, getting his ass frozen up there for five years, doesn't.

He could be fighting the Ironborn.

[joluoto2]

Jon reorganising the Watch, remanning the castles along the Wall, dealing with wildlings, subordinates etc. I like Jon's chapter in Dance but it felt like some of the things happened way faster than realistically should have (e.g. Stannis winning the loyalty of the mountain clans, Jon already having reports from the castles that he only just sent people to in the previous chapter).

Generally, a lot of AFfC and ADwD chapters (Brienne, Dorne, Asha and Danny in particular) felt like a live stream footage of fairly uninteresting events. Nothing that felt like we needed to witness this first-hand rather than just hear about it later on.

We know the Others are slow, but 5 years is a little too much at this point.

[Hangover of the Morning]

We know the Others are slow, but 5 years is a little too much at this point.

The Others are a complete non-issue to me. We know nothing about them or what they want. They haven't been seen for thousands years so why should they suddenly need to invade Westeros on a deadline?

[Sir Lee knot]

I think the story would be good either way. If he did it, it would have seemed a little off and not doing it made it a little off but tbh I think both ways were the right choice.