The Death of BOTH Sweetrobin AND Harry the Heir

[LordToo-Fat-to-Sit-a-Horse]

Except Florents support an usurper. Arryns didn't.

The tarlys aren´t. Melessa Florent would have a better claim to brightwater keep than Garlan.

[Bryden Tully]

I always assume the crown is free to give lands to who ever they want, no matter the claim.

Janos Slynt got Harrenhall, Orys Baratheon got Storms End

[Colonel Green]

That is one of the reasons why I think Sansa-HtH marriage is a ploy designed to misguide and stall Sansa.

Why do you keep messing with the font in your posts?

More to the point, why would he be doing that? Sansa wasn't pressing him to do anything. She was perfectly happy with the status quo; she doesn't need to be "stalled".

unless Lysa was only in charge because Robert was the heir and she his mother.

That's exactly why Lysa was in charge. She was the regent to Lord Robert.

As LF said, he would not be much of a threat as long as he is alone. In any case, LF has the full support of other Royces.

Littlefinger has gathered the support of various Vale houses for his continued regency over Lord Robert. That's not remotely the same thing as Littlefinger, a man they all regard as of vastly inferior birth, being installed as Lord of the Eyrie. None of the old families of the Vale would support that.

The idea that Littlefinger is hinging his plan on the Iron Throne installing him as Lord of the Eyrie is nonsensical, anyway. He's done everything in his power to destroy the authority of the Iron Throne. It will have no ability to force his appointment on the Vale, and he knows that.

[Mithras]

that he had no claim over harrenhal, he was awarded with the castle..

the difference i think is that all distant claims to harrenhal were enemy claims at that point..

Yeah. Tullys have a real claim to Harrenhal through Minisa Whent but they are the enemies of the crown.

[Mithras]

A whole lot better then none.

Because they appeased the monarchy, not planning to rebel like Baelish.

Cersei does not know that yet. In fact, she considered the letter of the Lords Declarant as a threat and she was glad that LF handled the situation well. She will not give the seat of Arryn to those Declarant Lords and as LF is planning, he means to bribe/kill all the problematic lords.

[Colonel Green]

She will not give the seat of Arryn to those Declarant Lords and as LF is planning, he means to bribe/kill all the problematic lords.

A ridiculous notion. The number of lords opposing his regency would be vastly smaller than the number of those who would not want him given the Eyrie, a place he has no claim on, outright. Killing or bribing them would be impossible. The only way he would ever get such an appointment would be by the equivalent of conquest, i.e., royal imposition, akin to House Tyrell. The Iron Throne has no capacity to do that in the Vale.

[Victor227]

Yeah, there's a huge difference between the Lord of the Vale's stepfather being regent for him, and the Lord of the Vale's stepfather taking over the ancestral seat of House Arryn, and the Vale to boot.

[Mithras]

Why do you keep messing with the font in your posts?

I use MS Word in long posts because I do a lot of typo which can be corrected easily in Word. Once there, I fully enjoy the tools including a wide variety of fonts, some of which are present in the forum as well.

More to the point, why would he be doing that? Sansa wasn't pressing him to do anything. She was perfectly happy with the status quo; she doesn't need to be "stalled".

He needs to keep Sansa in line by showing her the carrots. Otherwise, she could cause trouble to his schemes. LF is obsessed with her and he could not seduce her yet, he needs time.

Littlefinger has gathered the support of various Vale houses for his continued regency over Lord Robert. That's not remotely the same thing as Littlefinger, a man they all regard as of vastly inferior birth, being installed as Lord of the Eyrie. None of the old families of the Vale would support that.

The idea that Littlefinger is hinging his plan on the Iron Throne installing him as Lord of the Eyrie is nonsensical, anyway. He's done everything in his power to destroy the authority of the Iron Throne. It will have no ability to force his appointment on the Vale, and he knows that.

No single House has the power to take the Seat of Arryn in defiance to the other lords and the IT in the first place. None would put their Houses to the danger of extinction by defying the IT, which looks intact and strongh from the Vale by the time being.

LF didnot do much to destroy the Lannister/Tyrell alliance. More like, he was shocked to see it falling apart so soon. He was planning to rule as the regent of SR for years until everybody is under his authority and he is ready to dispose of SR and Harry. Do you remember that he requested Harry from Lady Waynwood during the meeting with the Declarant Lords?

[TheLastStark]

I always assume the crown is free to give lands to who ever they want, no matter the claim.

Janos Slynt got Harrenhall, Orys Baratheon got Storms End

Again, no claims to Harrenhall, and Orys Baratheon was given Storms End during Aegon's Conquest as a reward for slaying the current King of the Storm Lands. Plus he wed the daughter or that slain king and kept their motto and sigil. Also it is believed that Orys was Aegon bastard brother, which if you think about it would of made Roberts claim all the more legit.

[Wmarshal]

Cersei does not know that yet. In fact, she considered the letter of the Lords Declarant as a threat and she was glad that LF handled the situation well. She will not give the seat of Arryn to those Declarant Lords and as LF is planning, he means to bribe/kill all the problematic lords.

Baelish rebelling automatically removes what ever claims he may get, the crown is his power.

[Colonel Green]

He needs to keep Sansa in line by showing her the carrots. Otherwise, she could cause trouble to his schemes.

Um, no he doesn't. She was perfectly happy (in the relative sense) doing nothing. She wasn't asking him for anything, indeed, she was alarmed by the renewal of scheming.

No single House has the power to take the Seat of Arryn in defiance to the other lords and the IT in the first place. None would put their Houses to the danger of extinction by defying the IT, which looks intact and strongh from the Vale by the time being.

It wouldn't be "a single house". No house in the Vale would back putting Littlefinger in the Eyrie as lord. It's an affront to their entire hierarchy of blood and ancestry, and their reputations. And the Iron Throne most definitely does not look "intact and strong" from the Vale. Anybody paying even the slightest attention to the news knows the throne is in chaos, and very shortly will have even more added, with the arrival of Aegon's party. There is no danger to any of the Vale houses in defying the Iron Throne, which has no ability to project power into the Vale, between the Bloody Gate (even if the High Road was open, which it isn't) and the complete lack of seapower.

Do you remember that he requested Harry from Lady Waynwood during the meeting with the Declarant Lords?

Yes, for the same reason he got Harry from Waynwood later.

It's also ridiculous to think that Littlefinger could have both Robert and Harry murdered whilst under his care and nobody would think that was at all suspicious.

[Wmarshal]

Um, no he doesn't. She was perfectly happy (in the relative sense) doing nothing. She wasn't asking him for anything, indeed, she was alarmed by the renewal of scheming.

It wouldn't be "a single house". No house in the Vale would back putting Littlefinger in the Eyrie as lord. It's an affront to their entire hierarchy of blood and ancestry, and their reputations. And the Iron Throne most definitely does not look "intact and strong" from the Vale. Anybody paying even the slightest attention to the news knows the throne is in chaos, and very shortly will have even more added, with the arrival of Aegon's party. There is no danger to any of the Vale houses in defying the Iron Throne, which has no ability to project power into the Vale, between the Bloody Gate (even if the High Road was open, which it isn't) and the complete lack of seapower.

Yes, for the same reason he got Harry from Waynwood later.

It's also ridiculous to think that Littlefinger could have both Robert and Harry murdered whilst under his care and nobody would think that was at all suspicious.

What is also ridiculous is the idea that the lords won't rebel the second he rebels against the only power to his place, the crown.

[Mithras]

Baelish rebelling automatically removes what ever claims he may get, the crown is his power.

What is also ridiculous is the idea that the lords won't rebel the second he rebels against the only power to his place, the crown.

You don't get my point. LF plans to rebel the crown after he is done with solidifying his rule in the Vale by bribery/murder. At that point, he also thinks that the KL will be a mess thanks to Cersei and they will be powerless to the defiance of LF. I also think that LF will not just simply defy the IT. He will reveal some dirty secrets before doing that and wear a pro-Stark mask to gain the support of the Vale Lords and whoever is still there for the Starks in Riverlands and the North. That will include the unmasking of Sansa.

[Wmarshal]

You don't get my point. LF plans to rebel the crown after he is done with solidifying his rule in the Vale by bribery/murder. At that point, he also thinks that the KL will be a mess thanks to Cersei and they will be powerless to the defiance of LF. I also think that LF will not just simply defy the IT. He will reveal some dirty secrets before doing that and wear a pro-Stark mask to gain the support of the Vale Lords and whoever is still there for the Starks in Riverlands and the North.

How? He has no blood claim, the valelords hate him, and Harry, the kin and ward of a old house death would only through that. The Vale lords aren't just Stark supporters but crown supporters.Baelish only power comes from the crown.

[Mithras]

It wouldn't be "a single house". No house in the Vale would back putting Littlefinger in the Eyrie as lord. It's an affront to their entire hierarchy of blood and ancestry, and their reputations. And the Iron Throne most definitely does not look "intact and strong" from the Vale. Anybody paying even the slightest attention to the news knows the throne is in chaos, and very shortly will have even more added, with the arrival of Aegon's party. There is no danger to any of the Vale houses in defying the Iron Throne, which has no ability to project power into the Vale, between the Bloody Gate (even if the High Road was open, which it isn't) and the complete lack of seapower.

You forget that after the Blackwater and RW, the Lannister/Tyrell alliance appeared as the victor of Wot5K to all. LF spoke to the Lords Declarant at that point and he used the tapestries of Robert to show that he has the full support of the throne at his back. Otherwise, the lords could have just trampled him like a fly.

[Mithras]

How? He has no blood claim, the valelords hate him, and Harry, the kin and ward of a old house death would only through that. The Vale lords aren't just Stark supporters but crown supporters.Baelish only power comes from the crown.

You forget the quote in the OP. LF already has minor lords as his friend and he plans to get rid of the opposition within a year. After he gets the Seat of Arryn and the dust is settled, he can build an excuse to defy the IT and rally the Vale in that campaign.

[Wmarshal]

You forget the quote in the OP. LF already has minor lords as his friend and he plans to get rid of the opposition within a year. After he gets the Seat of Arryn and the dust is settled, he can build an excuse to defy the IT and rally the Vale in that campaign.

He has a few, only a mere few others can be bought. Without the throne he is nothing but a small lord of a small land, Royce can easily rally the lords to gut him. Baelish is no name of a lord of might, Arryn is, and none of the lords of the Vale would forget.

[marsyao]

That is one of the reasons why I think Sansa-HtH marriage is a ploy designed to misguide and stall Sansa. LF is planning to kill HtH too and he wants Sansa for his own pleasure.

We are not talking about some sily show such as "House of Cards", yes? In the world of "song of ice and fire", powerful Lords of Vale were no idiot, without strength, clever plot could noly bring you so far. LF himself has no claim to the Lordship of Vale, now he is running thing there on the ground that he is sweetrobin's guardian, if sweetrobin dies, his day in the Vale would be done, his plot would be useless since other Vale Lords,seeing the power vaccum, would not allow him to keep his position since LF has no connection in the Vale, that is the reason LF has to have Sansa marry Harry in order to keep him in power, if he murders Harry too, then based on what he could still in the leadship of Vale? Neither him nor Sansa has a claim here.

I would think the best option is to keep sweetrobin alive, so that he can rule the Vale in the name of sick and silly little boy, if he killed sweetrobin, and make Harry the Lord of Vale, then even Sansa do marry Harry, it still would be much more difficult for LF to keep his position, Harry is a strong knight, and he has the back of some very powerful houses in the Vale, and I do not believe he would ever let himself be a figurehead

[UnFit Finlay]

I've been thinking along similar lines actually. However I don't believe that it is Littlefinger's plan as much as his "Plan B".

He's set things up in such a way that poor Robert's death and the subsequent rebellion will look like the work of the Vale Lords. After all, they've been desperate to rebel since Jon Arryn's death and tried to depose of Littlefinger previously.

If Harry's forces succeed then Littlefinger becomes the ruler of the North, Vale and Riverlands. If they LOSE then Harry, if he survives, will be an attainted traitor. Rather than search for the next in line, whose loyalty might be uncertain, I'd say that there'd be an excellent case for giving the position to Littlefinger. After all he's certainly qualified for the position, given that he's doing it right now and he's not sworn to either House Lannister or House Tyrell, though both BELIEVE that he is theirs, so he'd be an appointment that both sides would be content with. I'm sure they'd also see it somehow fitting that the man The Vale deposed in order to start their rebellion would be the one ruling them.

As it is I think he'd prefer to execute the plan as he explained it to Sansa but this is a reasonable back up plan. I will say that it's all hypothetical since so much has changed since he laid it out.

[Lee-Sensei]

Cersei does not know that yet. In fact, she considered the letter of the Lords Declarant as a threat and she was glad that LF handled the situation well. She will not give the seat of Arryn to those Declarant Lords and as LF is planning, he means to bribe/kill all the problematic lords.

The seat of house arryn isn't hers to give and there's no real way the lannisters could force of on the vale lords. The only reason it worked in the north, was because they took so many hostages at the rw.