Mithras Posted August 9, 2014 Author Share Posted August 9, 2014 The seat of house arryn isn't hers to give and there's no real way the lannisters could force of on the vale lords. The only reason it worked in the north, was because they took so many hostages at the rw. Since I assume that there will be no immediate heirs after SR and HtH, it will be the crown's decision just like Harrenhal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pecan Posted August 9, 2014 Share Posted August 9, 2014 Their is a heir, who ever married a arryn last. Baelish is as common born as you get, no one is going to seat him anywhere, if Harry and Robert dies, his ass hits the grass. Actually no. He isn't common born. His "lordship" is basically a hovel, but he isn't lowborn. Nope. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee-Sensei Posted August 9, 2014 Share Posted August 9, 2014 Since I assume that there will be no immediate heirs after SR and HtH, it will be the crown's decision just like Harrenhal.Since I assume that there will be no immediate heirs after SR and HtH, it will be the crown's decision just like Harrenhal.No. Because the vale is well defended and the other vale lords would never stand for it. They wouldn't let lf be lord of the vale, as lf told sansa himself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pecan Posted August 9, 2014 Share Posted August 9, 2014 Since I assume that there will be no immediate heirs after SR and HtH, it will be the crown's decision just like Harrenhal. Presumably so. The question is who will be sitting on the IT at that time? If SR and HtH are both dead, and Littlefinger is sitting there having crafted an alliance between the North, the Riverlands, and the Vale, and that alliance is on the side of the victors, then absent any immediate heirs, he could be in a position at that point to press a claim to the Vale and have it granted to him. However, my view of LF is that he wants more than just the Vale or the Riverlands. He wants most of all to win, to be on top of all those Brandon Stark highborn shitheads that beat him down and treated him like he was nothing. And winning, for Littlefinger, means winning the Iron Throne. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mithras Posted August 9, 2014 Author Share Posted August 9, 2014 Presumably so. The question is who will be sitting on the IT at that time? If SR and HtH are both dead, and Littlefinger is sitting there having crafted an alliance between the North, the Riverlands, and the Vale, and that alliance is on the side of the victors, then absent any immediate heirs, he could be in a position at that point to press a claim to the Vale and have it granted to him. However, my view of LF is that he wants more than just the Vale or the Riverlands. He wants most of all to win, to be on top of all those Brandon Stark highborn shitheads that beat him down and treated him like he was nothing. And winning, for Littlefinger, means winning the Iron Throne. The main idea of this thread is what LF plans, not what will happen. LF was planning that the Lannisters would have an uncontested reign long enough for LF to work his machinations. There are many things which are out of control/knowledge of LF that are ruining his plans. His demise is close. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pecan Posted August 9, 2014 Share Posted August 9, 2014 The main idea of this thread is what LF plans, not what will happen. LF was planning that the Lannisters would have an uncontested reign long enough for LF to work his machinations. There are many things which are out of control/knowledge of LF that are ruining his plans. His demise is close. Yes, I believe I understood that Littlefinger was planning on using the perception of Lannister backing to move his own agenda forward. However, I don't think LF is inflexible. He is still in a good position in the Vale, manipulating the situation and consolidating his base of power, and it may be sufficient for him to remain regent of SR (which means keeping him alive) to move his agenda forward. By the time events catch up to him, he may no longer need Lannister backing because he will himself be the power in the Vale. On the other hand, dragons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redroverman Posted August 9, 2014 Share Posted August 9, 2014 I get the feeling LF's plan is a little bit more cunning than 'kill every single ruler, heir and regent of the Vale (starting with Jon Arryn), until absolutely no one is left but him.' I know the Lords of the Vale haven't yet proven to be the sharpest tools in the shed, but even they must become suspect if all the lords/heirs/regents start dropping like flies. First Lysa, then sweetrobin, then HtH? Nah I don't see it. Besides, LF is already Lord Paramound of the Riverlands. For that reason alone, whoever is on the IT will not give The Vale to LF. Simply because that would make him, in theory atleast, the most powerful Lord in the realm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redroverman Posted August 9, 2014 Share Posted August 9, 2014 LF is the master of the game of thrones right, why should be be content as a mere Lord Paramount? I believe rather than trying to place the whole of Northern Westeros under his direct control, his objective is to create a tight alliance between the North, Vale and Riverlands just as there was during Robert's rebellion. I believe that somehow he knows all about Dany and/or Aegon and plans to somehow use the ensuing chaos as a way to place either himself or more likely I believe Sansa on the IT. Completly crackpot, I know, but I just believe there is no limit to Petyr Baelish's ambition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No Song so Sweet Posted August 9, 2014 Share Posted August 9, 2014 I don't think that the Vale would go to Littlefinger after Harry dies. The normal procedure would be to go back in the family tree and find the heir to the Veil, whoever it may be. I don't understand how suddenly the crown could intervene to the succession. They would have no right, even if they did want Littlefinger to rule there. Plus Harry the heir already has a bastard, lest you forget. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mithras Posted August 9, 2014 Author Share Posted August 9, 2014 I don't think that the Vale would go to Littlefinger after Harry dies. The normal procedure would be to go back in the family tree and find the heir to the Veil, whoever it may be. I don't understand how suddenly the crown could intervene to the succession. They would have no right, even if they did want Littlefinger to rule there. Plus Harry the heir already has a bastard, lest you forget. 1. The crown has the authority over the Vale. The overlordship of the Vale belongs to the Arryns because Aegon let them keep that but what one king did, another may undo. The crown has the right. 2. There are several claims in the Rosby inheritance but it is crown's decision too. 3. The mother of Harry's bastards might be lowborn and in every case, the crown has the right to legitimize a bastard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wmarshal Posted August 9, 2014 Share Posted August 9, 2014 1. The crown has the authority over the Vale. The overlordship of the Vale belongs to the Arryns because Aegon let them keep that but what one king did, another may undo. The crown has the right. 2. There are several claims in the Rosby inheritance but it is crown's decision too. 3. The mother of Harry's bastards might be lowborn and in every case, the crown has the right to legitimize a bastard. 1. He is blaming to overthrow the crown, that goes so does he. And what is to stop the lords with better claim outright killing him? 2. The crown is aiding, if the claimants talked and agreed who was lord, he would be lord. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oopeed Posted August 9, 2014 Share Posted August 9, 2014 Bronze Yohn Royce would rather watch his house turn to dust then let a low born cunt like LF take the Eyrie the seat of house Aryn I refuse to believe all but a few houses of the Vale stand for it either. Remember there are still Aryns in Gulltown they are the rightful lords if HTH dies. I hope it's true... Petyr's plot armor is burning my entrails, Brandon's only true mistake was not to gut that disgusting rat... Also, it's not like the crown can take on the vale if their puppet LF goes down, and that's something all the vale lords know, the bloody gate is like their moat cailin.And is not like LF would want lannister friends near Alayne. That has the potential of send all crashing down by the moon door. Well if Harry the Heir marries Sansa, after Robert dies, then Harry dies as well, Sansa would be in charge of the Vale like Lysa was, unless Lysa was only in charge because Robert was the heir and she his mother. She was only in charge because SR was her son... But that may be a blockade on Petyr's plan. If Harry the Heir takes Sansa's maidenhood and put a baby on her belly, then all the crap will go down regardless of the baby's gender.... Petyr would be forced to kill Sansa too. He's certainly capable of doing so, but only as a last measure.This is the very same reason why Jayne Westerling and Roslin Frey are under supervision. If any of them are to pop out a wolf or a trout, then the claim of the new tennants is in danger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mithras Posted August 9, 2014 Author Share Posted August 9, 2014 I hope it's true... Petyr's plot armor is burning my entrails, Brandon's only true mistake was not to gut that disgusting rat... Also, it's not like the crown can take on the vale if their puppet LF goes down, and that's something all the vale lords know, the bloody gate is like their moat cailin. How about Gulltown? Redwyne Fleet? Combined force of the Reach/Crownlands/Westerlands? The Vale Lords are nothing but a single entity. Even one of the Lords Declarant was a catspaw of LF. There are other lords in the Vale. She was only in charge because SR was her son... But that may be a blockade on Petyr's plan. If Harry the Heir takes Sansa's maidenhood and put a baby on her belly, then all the crap will go down regardless of the baby's gender.... Petyr would be forced to kill Sansa too. He's certainly capable of doing so, but only as a last measure. If HtH dies during the bedding but before consumating the marriage with Sansa, LF might put his own child into Sansa's belly and buy a lot of time as the regent of the Vale again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheSpymaster Posted August 9, 2014 Share Posted August 9, 2014 Does anyone know what littlefinger had promised the tyrells....whatif his plans include them too...as an ally or as mere puppets Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UtherSnow Posted August 9, 2014 Share Posted August 9, 2014 Petyr 'Littlefinger' Baelish plans for LF to sit The Iron Throne, as a Monarch's Hand. Whoever wears the crown does not hold the true power of the land. Robert - best known for drinking, hunting and whoring his way through life. (So he once lead a rebellion. So what?)Joffrey - best known for reminding everyone that 'I am The King'. (So once he ordered an execution. So what?)Tommen - best known for signing whatever's placed in front of him. (So he likes chasing stray cats. So what?) Who governs the land? The Hand does. The Small Council doesn't do anything without The Hand's say-so. Unless LF leads his own rebellion, it is impossible for him to become Monarch. The best he can hope for is to become The Hand, which is the more powerful position to hold. Should he do that, LF becomes the biggest winner of recent times in Westeros. To go from Petyr 'Littlefinger' Baelish, as he is now (in The Vale), to that lofty position..... Surely he has plans beyond those he's set in motion. SweetRobin is being systematically induced into permanent sleep.Sansa is being systematically manipulated into marriage with Harrold.Harrold's bastards will be systematically made irrelevant.Harrold will decree that title, property, lands and income will be bestowed upon Petyr Baelish. (It will be witnessed as well.) LF has wealth at his disposal to gain friends and influence people. Perhaps a few elderly lords leave this mortal coil naturally. IIRC Tyrion noted that LF had been quite clever with the crown's finances. Tyrion doesn't miss much when it's useful information. Perhaps LF has more wealth than is apparent. In the meantime, Harrold becomes mortally wounded. Some silly jousting accident will suffice. As usual, LF won't be around therefore avoids being blamed. Stupid stupid Sansa will be in tears for her beloved Harry. A face from the past appears in The Vale, prompting Sansa to head for the nearest call-box.... DARN! DAMN! No call-boxes in Westeros! How does Stupid stupid Sansa become.....? Got it!Sansa heads to the nearest godswood to change into..... Lady Darkheart! Yohn Royce recognises her now. The face from the past is none other than..... Blackfish. All Lady Darkheart need do is point her finger at LF. Of course, an explanation is necessary. The Vale unites behind Sansa, the heir to Winterfell (until Rickon shows up). The North Remembers! QED everyone's been duped by Sansa playing the 'dumb broad' (to use Hollywood vernacular).LF's plans to get rid of SweetRobin and Harry Heir don't reward him as he planned. Is this possible? I like thinking out loud, even if I'm wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wmarshal Posted August 9, 2014 Share Posted August 9, 2014 How about Gulltown? Redwyne Fleet? Combined force of the Reach/Crownlands/Westerlands? The Vale Lords are nothing but a single entity. Even one of the Lords Declarant was a catspaw of LF. There are other lords in the Vale. If HtH dies during the bedding but before consumating the marriage with Sansa, LF might put his own child into Sansa's belly and buy a lot of time as the regent of the Vale again. The Reach has more things to do then put Cersei's puppet on a throne. All who have a better claim to the Vale then Baelish. If HtH dies during the wedding there is no stopping Yohn putting a sword in Petyr's belly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colonel Green Posted August 9, 2014 Share Posted August 9, 2014 How about Gulltown? Redwyne Fleet? Combined force of the Reach/Crownlands/Westerlands? The Redwyne fleet is currently sailing like mad to get back home and fight the Ironborn, which is what it will be doing for the foreseeable future, whether it wins or not (I rather doubt you'll be seeing Lord Paxter leave the Arbor after this). The crown is in no position to make Littlefinger the ruler of the Vale, and the lords of the Vale would never accept him as such. Indeed, Littlefinger has always been very cognizant of his comparatively low social status when arranging his plans (the whole Harry the Heir scheme is a sensible way around that issue). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oopeed Posted August 9, 2014 Share Posted August 9, 2014 How about Gulltown? Redwyne Fleet? Combined force of the Reach/Crownlands/Westerlands? The Vale Lords are nothing but a single entity. Even one of the Lords Declarant was a catspaw of LF. There are other lords in the Vale. If HtH dies during the bedding but before consumating the marriage with Sansa, LF might put his own child into Sansa's belly and buy a lot of time as the regent of the Vale again. Yeah, like the redwyne fleet is just sitting around. They have ironborn raiding the reach, so no way they're turning on their own and leave them to pillage at their will... And either way, it's as simple as taking garrison on the eyrie, an expugnable castle given that cersei has no dragons.Also... Sansa's maidenhood has plot armor. So no way that scum of LF is getting a piece of that. If HtH dies during the wedding there is no stopping Yohn putting a sword in Petyr's belly. I'd pay to see that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mithras Posted August 9, 2014 Author Share Posted August 9, 2014 Yeah, like the redwyne fleet is just sitting around. They have ironborn raiding the reach, so no way they're turning on their own and leave them to pillage at their will... And either way, it's as simple as taking garrison on the eyrie, an expugnable castle given that cersei has no dragons. That is a later event. By the time the Lord Declarants were in the Eyrie, the Redwyne Fleet was laying siege to Dragonstone and Storm's End. Their threat was visible/close and the tapestries of Robert, which show that the crown supports LF, also helped LF. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mithras Posted August 9, 2014 Author Share Posted August 9, 2014 There is a general misunderstanding about this thread. The plan I posted in the OP is LF’s endgame and the plan was good under the assumptions of LF back then. But a lot of things are happening to ruin LF’s plans, some of which LF still does not know. For example Rickon will soon be installed to Winterfell after the defeat of the Boltons. The North will declare for Stannis. This means LF will have a much harder time keeping Sansa content because the girl will want to return home and see her baby brother. At the same time, the shitstorm at KL and the ironborn problem will be heard and the power of the IT in the Vale will start to vanish much sooner than LF anticipated. The arrival of fAegon and the active involvement of Varys is also a game changer. Lady Stoneheart will create serious menace to the Freys in Riverlands which will also result in the death of Walder Frey and the Frey Civil War for succession. The pro-Stark sentiment will start to shine again and the Vale Lords will not fear the might of the IT this time. In short, LF will not survive this chaos. The plan I posted in the OP is the soon-to-be-ruined plan of LF and many of the objections to the OP actually state why this plan is doomed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.