Skinchanging Sweetrobin Posted August 19, 2014 Share Posted August 19, 2014 The flaw in his entire plan, is the fact that Rickon and Bran are alive, thus robbing Sansa of title to the North and the Riverlands. I think the flaw in the plan is thinking Sweetrobin is going to die. :) GRRM has made every indication that Sweetrobin is doomed, which, of course means the kid is friggin' indestructable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Bedding Posted August 22, 2014 Share Posted August 22, 2014 This is too true, if LF doesn't reveal Sansa, he can't marry her and take the Arryn's seat(which i think is his plan), and if he reveals Sansa then the Crown will never give him Arryn's seat for his betrayal.Isn't it a moot point if Sansa doesn't produce a child? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Good Guy Garlan Posted August 22, 2014 Share Posted August 22, 2014 I think the flaw in the plan is thinking Sweetrobin is going to die. :) GRRM has made every indication that Sweetrobin is doomed, which, of course means the kid is friggin' indestructable. This. And the fact that Petyr spelled out his entire plan to us. That's Fiction 101: you do not explain a plan in detail, unless it is bound to fail Frankly, I think Harry the Heir is just going to be a red herring Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sages Posted August 22, 2014 Share Posted August 22, 2014 I think the flaw in the plan is thinking Sweetrobin is going to die. :) GRRM has made every indication that Sweetrobin is doomed, which, of course means the kid is friggin' indestructable. Lol this has been my thoughts since forever. Some how that little punk is gonna grow to be one of the toughest lords ever. Or of course he will die and we will find out that he was littlefinger's kid all along. But getting back on topic. If Harry the heir and sweetrobin were to die that would really spice things up in the vale, because right now with the reveal of littlefingers plan it all feels a little to straight forward. I'm looking forward to a nice twist or two in sansa's story line. But in all honesty I'd love to see Bronze Yohn do some damage. Something about the Royce's I find strangely appealing. Judging by their house words. "We remember" they seem like they could have an important part to play in upcoming events Interesting note to make is that redfort's son was recently forced to marry a Royce by his father. Perhaps Bronze Yohn is planning something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mourn Sigil Posted August 22, 2014 Share Posted August 22, 2014 Jon's sister Alys Waynwood has three daughters that could possibly still be alive. However, two of them have taken holy vows (a Septa and a Silent Sister). The third was carried off by Burned Men while traveling to marry a Bracken. Her status is unknown, but if she was married off to one of her captors and had issue, they would actually precede Harry the Heir in the line of succession. Timett(son of Timett), Lord of the Vale. Totally not going to happen and I doubt that the missing Waynwood daughter will be mentioned again, but I find the idea intriguing. And there is always right of conquest… The Hound was warned about the Mountain Clans growing more aggressive since Timmett's return from KL. Tyrion did promise them the Vale in exchange for their allegiance. Regardless, I think that there is a bloodbath on the horizon in the Vale and it wouldn't surprise me if the Mountain Clans play some part in that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mourn Sigil Posted August 22, 2014 Share Posted August 22, 2014 I think the flaw in the plan is thinking Sweetrobin is going to die. :) GRRM has made every indication that Sweetrobin is doomed, which, of course means the kid is friggin' indestructable. I hope you are right. I keep getting the feeling that controversial Sansa chapter GRRM has mentioned will be bad news for Sweetrobin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mithras Posted August 25, 2014 Author Share Posted August 25, 2014 I think the flaw in the plan is thinking Sweetrobin is going to die. :) GRRM has made every indication that Sweetrobin is doomed, which, of course means the kid is friggin' indestructable. Agreed. I would bet a large sum of money for Theon, Shireen and SR to survive the series. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinchanging Sweetrobin Posted August 25, 2014 Share Posted August 25, 2014 Agreed. I would bet a large sum of money for Theon, Shireen and SR to survive the series. Not to mention, a Shireen and Sweetrobin wedding would create a pretty strong alliance and pretty strong birthright. I would put pretty good chances on them sitting the Iron Throne in the end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mithras Posted December 31, 2014 Author Share Posted December 31, 2014 We are not talking about some sily show such as "House of Cards", yes? In the world of "song of ice and fire", powerful Lords of Vale were no idiot, without strength, clever plot could noly bring you so far. LF played everyone except Varys for fools. LF himself has no claim to the Lordship of Vale, now he is running thing there on the ground that he is sweetrobin's guardian, if sweetrobin dies, his day in the Vale would be done, his plot would be useless since other Vale Lords,seeing the power vaccum, would not allow him to keep his position since LF has no connection in the Vale, that is the reason LF has to have Sansa marry Harry in order to keep him in power, if he murders Harry too, then based on what he could still in the leadship of Vale? Neither him nor Sansa has a claim here. LF is a Vale Lord which means he does have connection to the Vale. Deciding which House will be LP is up for the IT. And House Baelish is as qualified as any other Vale nobility for the LP title. You fail to understand the quote I provided in the OP which clearly shows that LF has connections in the Vale; he is buying Lords, befriending others and killing the defiants. Sansa-HtH marriage is not LF's real plan. LF wants Sansa for himself and himself alone. That much is obvious. I would think the best option is to keep sweetrobin alive, so that he can rule the Vale in the name of sick and silly little boy, if he killed sweetrobin, and make Harry the Lord of Vale, then even Sansa do marry Harry, it still would be much more difficult for LF to keep his position, Harry is a strong knight, and he has the back of some very powerful houses in the Vale, and I do not believe he would ever let himself be a figurehead Why does LF want to rule the Vale? Just for the sake of ruling the Vale? What will he do while he is practically ruling the Vale through one proxy or the other? Why does he want that power? I know the Lords of the Vale haven't yet proven to be the sharpest tools in the shed, but even they must become suspect if all the lords/heirs/regents start dropping like flies. First Lysa, then sweetrobin, then HtH? Nah I don't see it. Old Lord Hunter dropped like a fly and his eldest son will drop soon enough until the youngest son, who is LF's creature, will be the Lord. Lysa's death is already covered, no small thanks to foolish Sansa. SR is known as a sickly boy and his death will not be a surprise either. I am sure than LF is capable enough to kill HtH without raising suspicions. For example, Harry seems like he likes whoring and LF is a pimp. Can LF find a whore who can pass pox to HtH and kill him in a humiliating manner? Why not? Besides, LF is already Lord Paramound of the Riverlands. For that reason alone, whoever is on the IT will not give The Vale to LF. Simply because that would make him, in theory atleast, the most powerful Lord in the realm. Cersei was looking for empty castles/titles for her loyal creatures. For example Aurane Waters demanded Dragonstone but that was too much for him. She was thinking of giving Rosby to Aurane. I am sure that if Cersei gives the Seat of Arryn to LF, she can give Harrenhal to another loyal creature, like Freys or Merryweathers etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mithras Posted December 31, 2014 Author Share Posted December 31, 2014 Another reason why the Vale Lords cannot risk the wrath of the IT is that they stayed out of Wot5K; winter has come; and their stores are intact, something which only Dorne and most of the Reach can boast. Should they prove to be disobedient, Vale might be sacked for gold and food by the Lannisters/Tyrells. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mithras Posted December 31, 2014 Author Share Posted December 31, 2014 Petyr 'Littlefinger' Baelish plans for LF to sit The Iron Throne, as a Monarch's Hand. Whoever wears the crown does not hold the true power of the land. And what is LF planning to do with the true power? Grab more gold? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee-Sensei Posted December 31, 2014 Share Posted December 31, 2014 Cersei doesn't have the power to give the Vale to LF. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mithras Posted December 31, 2014 Author Share Posted December 31, 2014 Again, there's a world of difference from him remaining as regent, which he has some natural claim on anyway as Lysa's husband, and being made lord. Building support for the former doesn't remotely equal to having support for the latter. There is absolutely no difference. What matters is that whether he has enough power to press his claim or not. If he has enough power, he may claim to be one of the Seven and demand worship. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mithras Posted December 31, 2014 Author Share Posted December 31, 2014 Cersei doesn't have the power to give the Vale to LF. Where is this stated in the text? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee-Sensei Posted December 31, 2014 Share Posted December 31, 2014 Where is this stated in the text? The Vales at full strength whereas the West is weakened and the Reach is preoccupied. The Vale has great defenses and the Lannisters don't have friends there. What makes you think she can? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mithras Posted December 31, 2014 Author Share Posted December 31, 2014 The Vales at full strength whereas the West is weakened and the Reach is preoccupied. The Vale has great defenses and the Lannisters don't have friends there. What makes you think she can? Westerlands is not as weakened as you think. The Vale cannot defend itself from the armed clansmen. Nor it can defend itself from a mighty Fleet attacking Gulltown. Lannisters have LF and all the Lords bound to LF at the Vale. The Reach became preoccupied with the ironborn much later than the meeting with the Declarant Lords. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee-Sensei Posted December 31, 2014 Share Posted December 31, 2014 Westerlands is not as weakened as you think. The Vale cannot defend itself from the armed clansmen. Nor it can defend itself from a mighty Fleet attacking Gulltown. Lannisters have LF and all the Lords bound to LF at the Vale. The Reach became preoccupied with the ironborn much later than the meeting with the Declarant Lords. The West should have roughly 30,000 troops left. The Vale should have about 45,000. Nevermind that they can't moblize andmarch their etire army through the Bloody Gate. What Fleet? The one Aurane took or the one that's fighting the Irom Born? There's no evidence that all of these Lords are going to fght to make LF King or Lord of the Vale. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mithras Posted December 31, 2014 Author Share Posted December 31, 2014 The West should have roughly 30,000 troops left. The Vale should have about 45,000. Nevermind that they can't moblize andmarch their etire army through the Bloody Gate. What Fleet? The one Aurane took or the one that's fighting the Irom Born? There's no evidence that all of these Lords are going to fght to make LF King or Lord of the Vale. There is no evidence to show that they will not fight for him either. So, how can you be so sure? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thelittledragonthatcould Posted December 31, 2014 Share Posted December 31, 2014 There is no evidence to show that they will not fight for him either. So, how can you be so sure?Yes there is, from Littlefinger himself"Jon Arryn's bannermen will never love me" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee-Sensei Posted December 31, 2014 Share Posted December 31, 2014 Gods forbid they glimpse me so near the seat of the Arryns. They may think that I mean to sit on it. Cheeks born so low as mine should never aspire to such lofty cushions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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