Jon Weirgaryen Posted August 12, 2014 Author Share Posted August 12, 2014 I gotta quit smoking that CRACK!! No, seriously, I thought (from L.Dustin & Roose's comments) that they had rode together. . . Actually nearly all of us have been seen stuck in that trap, that has been set out there deliberately. Sheesh, do you hear George sniggering in the back of this theatre? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearQueen87 Posted August 12, 2014 Share Posted August 12, 2014 Nope. The only meeting of Brandon and Ashara that we know of took place at the ToH in 281AC. Per GRRM, Jon is 8-9 months older than Dany placing his birth around the time of the Sack (283AC), up to a month after. Which helps lead us to B+A = still born daughter (*cough Allyria *cough) but not Jon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhaegal Targaryen Posted August 12, 2014 Share Posted August 12, 2014 Which helps lead us to B+A = still born daughter (*cough Allyria *cough) but not Jon. B+A=J fans will love this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Debra Morgan Posted August 12, 2014 Share Posted August 12, 2014 I would ask the question in a way that should make it even easier for her to answer, but for which I still don't think she can answer. I would ask: what evidence in the text makes it even slightly plausible that any of those other candidates could be the father? I really want to know. It is not just lack of proof, but lack of even minimal plausibility that makes the suggestion of Dayne, Whent, Ned or Ben unavailable as potential fathers. If there is contrary textual evidence, I really want to hear it.To be honest, I don't think it is Ned.Aerys: he saw Lyanna at Harrenhall, he was crazy, he could order his guards (and son) to kidnap her. He had all possibilities.Arthur: Darkstar said that people didn't know sth important about Arthur. And Martin,when he is asked by fans about Dayne, says:"Keep reading"Ben: he is not too young. He was about 15, when Lyanna died. And why did he join the NW? And his talk with Jon in tGoT about bastards is interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Debra Morgan Posted August 12, 2014 Share Posted August 12, 2014 Which helps lead us to B+A = still born daughter (*cough Allyria *cough) but not Jon.GRRM said that Ashara hadn't been at Starfall all the time after Harrenhall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearQueen87 Posted August 12, 2014 Share Posted August 12, 2014 To be honest, I don't think it is Ned.Aerys: he saw Lyanna at Harrenhall, he was crazy, he could order his guards (and son) to kidnap her. He had all possibilities.Arthur: Darkstar said that people don't know sth important about Arthur. And Martin,when he is asked by fans about Dayne, says:"Keep reading"Ben: he is not too young. He was about 15, when Lyanna died. And why did he join the NW? And his talk with Jon in tGoT about bastards is interesting. Aerys: he ordered Rhaegar to kidnap her (and then Rhaegar did it? The guy who was trying to dethrone his father?) and then Rhaegar took her to the ToJ....why? Arthur: And again why is Rhaegar hanging out at the ToJ with Arthur (and Whent) if Arthur is having an affair with Lyanna? And why did Hightower stay with them? He would have killed Arthur (and Whent) for oathbreaking Ben: Was at WF the entire time. And again, incest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearQueen87 Posted August 12, 2014 Share Posted August 12, 2014 GRRM said that Ashara hadn't been at Starfall all the time after Harrenhall. I know that. But Brandon was dead at that point and Ashara and Lyanna cannot make a baby Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackfyre the Bold Posted August 12, 2014 Share Posted August 12, 2014 A few points: we bring up Aerion drinking wildfire as evidence that Targaryens aren't fireproof. But to me, wildfire seems to be a liquid substance that is very flammable and not actual fire. Also, why would Lyanna have to make Ned "promise" to not tell anyone the truth of Jon's parentage. Ned saw the bodies of Elia's children. Of all people he should know what danger that would put Jon in. Furthermore, why doesn't Ned think about his brother Brandon more often? Did he do something shameful? Catelyn doesn't even think about him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhaenys_Targaryen Posted August 12, 2014 Share Posted August 12, 2014 Well yeah, how would Roose have known he could beat her without them actually racing one another?All its going to take is Martin to clarify dates and the Wiki changes. Domeric was definitly much younger that Lyanna. Domeric was fostered for 7 years in total, a fostering that would have stopped at the age of 16 the earliest (and according to SSM, that age does seem to be normal, though we have seen cases where the person was 18; this is only for fosterings that are for forming friendships, not for "fostering" hostages). The first 4 years of his fostering, Domeric spend being fostered by Lady Barbrey Dustin. Lady Barbrey became Lady Dustin upon her marriage to Lord Dustin, in 282AC.The age of a page is 8 the youngest (looking at examples of pages), and making Domeric as old as we can make him at the start of his fostering (16-7=9), and placing the start of his fostering as early as possible (in 282AC), would place his birth in 273AC. Domeric cannot have been born any later. The smallest age difference between him and Lyanna would thus have been 6 or 5 years.. With him being 9 when she went missing. However, that would require the time between Domeric returning to the Dreadfort and Domeric dying shortly after meeting Ramsay to have been 8 years (which sounds like too much, as Domeric returned from the Vale wanting brothers of his own.. He would not have waited 8 years to find his halfbrother) See here for more Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UnmaskedLurker Posted August 12, 2014 Share Posted August 12, 2014 Ashara and Lyanna cannot make a baby Hey, in my fantasy world they can. :leer: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Debra Morgan Posted August 12, 2014 Share Posted August 12, 2014 I know that. But Brandon was dead at that point and Ashara and Lyanna cannot make a babyIs it known that Brandon didn't meet Ashara after Harrenhal? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Consigliere Posted August 12, 2014 Share Posted August 12, 2014 Which helps lead us to B+A = still born daughter (*cough Allyria *cough) but not Jon. Allyria Dayne? Still don't buy that hypothesis. I consider that to be as crackpot as Darkstar is the bastard of [insert character here]. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearQueen87 Posted August 12, 2014 Share Posted August 12, 2014 A few points: we bring up Aerion drinking wildfire as evidence that Targaryens aren't fireproof. But to me, wildfire seems to be a liquid substance that is very flammable and not actual fire. Also, why would Lyanna have to make Ned "promise" to not tell anyone the truth of Jon's parentage. Ned saw the bodies of Elia's children. Of all people he should know what danger that would put Jon in. Furthermore, why doesn't Ned think about his brother Brandon more often? Did he do something shameful? Catelyn doesn't even think about him. Fireproof Targs: Aerion is just one example, but not the best. Duncan the Small and Aegon V all died in Summerhall fire. And not to mention every Targ who was ever cremated. Ned and Brandon: I tend to think that Ned has a lot of conflicting emotions about Brandon. He speaks bitterly about him at one point because got the life Brandon was supposed to have. Ned was perfectly fine being a second son but Brandon was a gallant rash fool and the life Ned never dreamed of was forced upon him. He takes it up and he wouldn't trade Cat or his children for anything but that doesn't change that it was never intended for him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UnmaskedLurker Posted August 12, 2014 Share Posted August 12, 2014 Is it known that Brandon didn't meet Ashara after Harrenhal? It is known that Brandon died more than nine months prior to Jon's birth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearQueen87 Posted August 12, 2014 Share Posted August 12, 2014 Hey, in my fantasy world they can. :leer: Oh dear lord. LOL Is it known that Brandon didn't meet Ashara after Harrenhal? Not that we know of? And Brandon was long dead by the time Jon is born Allyria Dayne? Still don't buy that hypothesis. I consider that to be as crackpot as Darkstar is the bastard of [insert character here]. Possibly. But it's a better fit than A+B = J Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Weirgaryen Posted August 12, 2014 Author Share Posted August 12, 2014 why would Lyanna have to make Ned "promise" to not tell anyone the truth of Jon's parentage. Ned saw the bodies of Elia's children. Of all people he should know what danger that would put Jon in. Would Lyanna know that? Would she know Eddard that well? Would she be game to take chances on it? ...no. why doesn't Ned think about his brother Brandon more often? Did he do something shameful? Catelyn doesn't even think about him. Brandon's folly started a war, caused the deaths of thousands, including Ned's father, brother, sister, all of his friends, except two: one of which got alienated and the other went into hiding. Forced honorable Ned into high treason twice, accept a marriage out of need to a woman he'd not seen before the wedding day, and to live lies for fourteen years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Debra Morgan Posted August 12, 2014 Share Posted August 12, 2014 It is known that Brandon died more than nine months prior to Jon's birth.Do we know how many months the Rebellion lasted? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearQueen87 Posted August 12, 2014 Share Posted August 12, 2014 Do we know how many months the Rebellion lasted? Almost a year Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Debra Morgan Posted August 12, 2014 Share Posted August 12, 2014 Almost a yearIt can mean 9, 10, 11, 12, 13 months... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Weirgaryen Posted August 12, 2014 Author Share Posted August 12, 2014 Do we know how many months the Rebellion lasted? Almost a year inside the year being almost a year, Storm's End was under siege for "almost a year", too. That could not have happened earlier than a month after the Siege of Ashford Castle was lifted. That was after Robert and Stormlords got there from Storm's End (another month) after they went there as Robert's prisoners after the Battles of Summerhall (another three weeks) and they had to rally and get to Summerhall in the first place, another month or probably more. eta; It can mean 9, 10, 11, 12, 13 months... Make it nearly 12 months and squeeze the rest in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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