aryagonnakill#2 Posted August 13, 2014 Share Posted August 13, 2014 I bet anything Old Nan knows the truth without being told, and Benjen, other than that if you heard the story of Ashara you believe Ashara, if you heard of Wyla you believe Wyla. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ice Turtle Posted August 13, 2014 Share Posted August 13, 2014 We also know what Sansa heard. It would have been easier if Arya had been a bastard, like their half brother Jon. She even looked like Jon, with the long face and brown hair of the Starks, and nothing of their lady mother in her face or her coloring. And Jon’s mother had been common, or so people whispered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colonel Green Posted August 13, 2014 Share Posted August 13, 2014 A better question is: who do the rest of the Starks think is Jon's mother? Cat surely had an opinion, even if she was discouraged to ask about Ashara. All the children including Jon must have considered it. The servants and household staff of Winterfell surely speculated and talked about it, especially when Ned forbade the Ashara chat. People gossip. Jon must have asked someone other than Ned... Benjen? Luwin? And moreso, all the Starks know that Rhaegar kidnapped Lyanna, and they were missing for a year or so. Yet none speculate Lyanna might have been pregnant. This is actually a huge plot hole for me. Very unrealistic that Jon's natural curiosity wouldn't have yielded a few probable candidates that he would, at the least, speculate about in his POV's. As far as the kids go, it's not like they have Wikipedia or gossip columns to work from. If the adults aren't saying anything, there's no real list of candidates for them to consider. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PirateVergo Posted August 13, 2014 Share Posted August 13, 2014 Father is either Brandon Stark or Rhaegar Targaryen Stop with this nonsense Brandon CANNOT be Jon's father, it's IMPOSSIBLE. He died 1 year before Jon's birth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonCon's Red Beard Posted August 13, 2014 Share Posted August 13, 2014 There are two events related to the Starks, besides the war itself. 1) Lyanna was raped/bedded by Rhaegar Targaryen 2) Ned returned home with a baby. While a smart mind probably put the two together and realised the truth, It's not that odd for men to return from war with bastards, so they don't see Jon's existence as something suspicious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellfoy Posted August 13, 2014 Share Posted August 13, 2014 The funny thing is that, except for the Three Sisters inhabitants, many have made the connection with Dorne. But still no illumination...I'm still waiting for Jaime to have a Eureka moment, he has all the cards : Rhaegar's personnality, Kingsguard at the Tower of Joy (and knowledge of the Kingsguard duty and personnalities, Ned Stark's damn honor... I have given up on Barristan... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mal Malenkirk Posted August 13, 2014 Share Posted August 13, 2014 If asked who is Jon Snow's mother, most Westerosi would answer 'who the hell is Jon Snow?' ;) The predominant opinion from those who know who Jon Snow is would be big shoulder shrug. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mal Malenkirk Posted August 13, 2014 Share Posted August 13, 2014 The funny thing is that, except for the Three Sisters inhabitants, many have made the connection with Dorne. But still no illumination... I'm still waiting for Jaime to have a Eureka moment, he has all the cards : Rhaegar's personnality, Kingsguard at the Tower of Joy (and knowledge of the Kingsguard duty and personnalities, Ned Stark's damn honor... I have given up on Barristan... Did Jaime ever even talk to Jon Snow? I bet he went the entire time since his last visit to Winterfell without thinking about him once. Probably did not think about him while he was there either! If they ever meet and chat for an extended period of time, then maybe. As long as the discussion is not side tracked by what happened to Bran... Still, that is an interesting point. He's one of the few person who could pieces thing together. Still a damn sight more likely that Howland Reed, who actually knows, will finally do something in this story and tell Jon. If he isn't the High Septon, anyway! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChillyPolly Posted August 13, 2014 Share Posted August 13, 2014 Stop with this nonsense Brandon CANNOT be Jon's father, it's IMPOSSIBLE. He died 1 year before Jon's birth. People trying to hide true identities of babies will not necessarily give accurate information about when babies were born. Brandon's son could have been born up to 9 months (or even a bit longer) after Brandon died. If you can rule that out, that is fine, but you need to make some allowance for the possibility of some misdirection. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mal Malenkirk Posted August 13, 2014 Share Posted August 13, 2014 People trying to hide true identities of babies will not necessarily give accurate information about when babies were born. Brandon's son could have been born up to 9 months (or even a bit longer) after Brandon died. If you can rule that out, that is fine, but you need to make some allowance for the possibility of some misdirection. Catelyn would have noticed if Jon was that much older than Robb. It's a huge differeence when they're babies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChillyPolly Posted August 13, 2014 Share Posted August 13, 2014 Catelyn would have noticed if Jon was that much older than Robb. It's a huge differeence when they're babies. We're talking 3 months. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonCon's Red Beard Posted August 13, 2014 Share Posted August 13, 2014 If asked who is Jon Snow's mother, most Westerosi would answer 'who the hell is Jon Snow?' ;) The predominant opinion about those who know who Jon Snow is would be big shoulder shrug. :lol: No1cuuuuurs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mal Malenkirk Posted August 13, 2014 Share Posted August 13, 2014 EDIT: Wait, misread what you wrote initially. Anyway, there can't be too much leeway in Jon Snow's date of birth, Catelyn saw him very young so the stated date of birth sas to be pretty damn close to the real one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faint Posted August 13, 2014 Share Posted August 13, 2014 I get the sense that most nobles or those associated with nobles suspect it is Ashara Dayne. But I agree that there is no particular interest in the subject and not a great deal of thought has gone into it. Which, as I have remarked on numerous occasions, I find totally unrealistic as it relates to the Dornish houses. As for commoners, even among the very small subset that even know about Jon, I would be surprised if they even have an opinion given how insignificant the issue is to their lives. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guardian of the Neck Posted August 13, 2014 Share Posted August 13, 2014 Ned and Lyanna ^^ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sj4iy Posted August 13, 2014 Share Posted August 13, 2014 If asked who is Jon Snow's mother, most Westerosi would answer 'who the hell is Jon Snow?' ;) The predominant opinion about those who know who Jon Snow is would be big shoulder shrug. This. He's a bastard...a highborn bastard, but a bastard nevertheless. Ned keeping him may have started some gossip in certain circles, but most people in Westeros probably don't even know who their own Lord is, let alone the bastard of the dead Lord in the North. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ibbison from Ibben Posted August 14, 2014 Share Posted August 14, 2014 Speculation about the identity of Jon Snow's mother is probably one of the major pastimes of northerners during long, cold winter evenings when everyone's had a bit too much to drink. However, it might be a good idea to remember what we know about the dynamics of rumors. When Stannis sends out his letters claiming the Cercei's children are in fact Jaime's and not Robert's, Cersei wants to prohibit the spreading of that rumor by law, with rather nasty punishments for violations. Tyrion says this would be foolish. "A folly," sighed Tyrion."When you tear out a man's tongue, you are not proving him a liar, you're only telling the world that you fear what he might say." By prohibiting mention of Ashara Dayne in Winterfell, Ned cleverly insures that most people will believe she is Jon's mother. The best way to hide the truth is to make sure everyone thinks they already know what the real truth is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Eric Posted August 14, 2014 Share Posted August 14, 2014 I don' think anyone is Westeros gives a flying fuck. Aside from Jon snow and Catelyn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doorlocks Posted August 14, 2014 Share Posted August 14, 2014 There are different stories going around: Wylla, Ashara Dayne, the fisherman's daughter. Cersei and Catelyn both mention Ashara as Jon's mother. Robert and Edric Dayne think it's Wylla because they were told so. I know his real mother is probably Lyanna Stark. But what do the other people from Westeros think who is the mother? Do they also think it's Ashara? And that after he killed Arthur Dayne, he went to Starfall to return the sword and take Jon from Ashara? Or did they think it was some random girl (like the fisherman's daughter), he returned to after 9 months to get the baby? Barristan Selmy thinks Ashara had a stillborn daughter. I think Jon Snow thinks it's some random girl. Did really no one besides maybe Benjen guess the truth? Everyone knew Rhaegar disappeared with Lyanna... Your last sentence is something I've been wondering about as well. Everybody agrees that fathering a bastard is a huge out of character moment for Eddard, everybody "knows" that Rhaegar kidnapped and raped Lyanna, and everyone knows that Lyanna died mysteriously at the end of the war. Nobody was like, "The timing sure is suspicious Ned." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellfoy Posted August 14, 2014 Share Posted August 14, 2014 Did Jaime ever even talk to Jon Snow? I bet he went the entire time since his last visit to Winterfell without thinking about him once. Probably did not think about him while he was there either! If they ever meet and chat for an extended period of time, then maybe. As long as the discussion is not side tracked by what happened to Bran... Still, that is an interesting point. He's one of the few person who could pieces thing together. Still a damn sight more likely that Howland Reed, who actually knows, will finally do something in this story and tell Jon. If he isn't the High Septon, anyway! Even if Jaime doesn't give a damn about Jon, he is well aware that honorable Ned's Stark has a bastard. In the show, he taunts Catelyn by saying that in a way he has more honor that Ned because he has always been faithful to Cersei. I don't remember if there is such a conversation in the books. Anyways, I think that all High born knows that Lord Paramount Eddard Stark has a bastard that he raised with his trueborn children (so chocking !), it makes great gossip subject. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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