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Small Questions v.10087


Jon Weirgaryen

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That's it. "The Truth" is quite a difficuls abstract concept and we may possibly never learn what (f)Aegon's actual ancestry is. And my in hindsight rather malformed question should have said:

Where is a hint at Tyrion suspecting Aegon to be of Daemon Blackfyre's family tree?

That's because I did not see it. It is obscurely told to the reader in the books (Septon Meribald, Illyrion, even Tyrion's early ADwD chapters). But not obviously happening as a thought in his mind. Or else, I must have missed it in my re-read... which would not surprise me if I did :)

R_T is correct in that it is a theory. I think it's nyearl as solid as the Ned is dead and R+L=J but that is just my opinion. To your question, though, Tyrion knows the history of the Blackfyre pretenders as well as anyone. He obviously has trouble swallowing Illyrio's whopper about the Golden Company supporting a Targaryen. The line about Aegon being a Targaryen after all at least suggests that Tyrion suspects that Aegon is not a Targaryen but actually a Blackfyre supported by the Golden Company.
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As to what I said a about "Truth" - it applies to "real" as well. The real Aegon, son of Rhaegar's or the real Aegon Mopatis-Blackfyre or the real Aegon the Kingslander...

As for the first I have to sob there have gone 4 books where he'd be as dead as Ned.

Then one where we are supposed that was a big coverup. I find that unfairly hard to buy.

For the latter two, there are hints, elsewhere throughout the last two books. That's better, though far from good.

I am out of any Aegon team, but I am all in team "Drogon, the wildfire-lighter".

There's just so much more Drogon burning stuff, Dany wanting to claim the Iron Throne and more wildfire throughout the books than there is for Aegon survived or Aegon is a Blackfyre.

So - my question

...was not a small one, after all?

There is a hint in Clash, a very, very important hint...

http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/101015-the-dragon-has-three-heads/

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How much did Sybell Spicer know about the red wedding? She pretty much says to Jaime that she and Tywin were communicating. Since she knew about it, why did she let her son Raynald go into that bloodbath? Maybe she didn't know it would be as brutal as it was, and just assumed Robb and the guests in the hall would be killed?


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How much did Sybell Spicer know about the red wedding? She pretty much says to Jaime that she and Tywin were communicating. Since she knew about it, why did she let her son Raynald go into that bloodbath? Maybe she didn't know it would be as brutal as it was, and just assumed Robb and the guests in the hall would be killed?

"I have two sons as well," Lady Westerling reminded him. "Rollam is with me, but Raynald was a knight and went with the rebels to the Twins. If I had known what was to happen there, I would never have allowed that." There was a hint of reproach in her voice. "Raynald knew nought of any . . . of the understanding with your lord father. He may be a captive at the Twins."

Jaime VII, Feast
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Yet she knew Robb was a dead man. I guess she just wasn't counting on the whole massacre. What did she think Robb's men would do when Lord Frey ordered him seized to be beheaded/sent to King's Landing to be beheaded?


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First, lets not turn this into a Sansa hate thread please. There are plenty of other places where those actions are discussed.

Second, we have already established Sansa didn:t cause Mycah's death, because the Hound was already out searching for Arya when Sansa gave her false testimony. Mycah's body is brought back shortly after the "trial" and so he was likely already dead when Sansa told the "trial" what she did. Whether she had told the truth then or not, Mycah was already dead

Yes, I got a little carried away engaging in a fit of Sansa-Bashing, Micah was indeed already dead by the beginning of the end of House Stark @ Castle Darry (coincidence?). My sincerest apologies. . .

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Yet she knew Robb was a dead man. I guess she just wasn't counting on the whole massacre. What did she think Robb's men would do when Lord Frey ordered him seized to be beheaded/sent to King's Landing to be beheaded?

That's what I'm thinking. She says "If I would have known what was to happen there..." but later in the sentence it implies that she knew what was going to happen. Which one is it? I also say she wasn't counting on the whole massacre, but knew Robb would die, that's the only way that sentence makes sense to me.

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R_T is correct in that it is a theory. I think it's nyearl as solid as the Ned is dead and R+L=J but that is just my opinion. To your question, though, Tyrion knows the history of the Blackfyre pretenders as well as anyone. He obviously has trouble swallowing Illyrio's whopper about the Golden Company supporting a Targaryen. The line about Aegon being a Targaryen after all at least suggests that Tyrion suspects that Aegon is not a Targaryen but actually a Blackfyre supported by the Golden Company.

Ned has been confirmed to be dead, I read the SSM stating that yesterday, coincidentally. :P apparently, GRRM said so in 2003, and people have just been ignoring it, haha. Hence all the survival theories.

The line about "migt be a Targaryen after all" has nothing to do with the Blackfyre's. Aegon having been just a fake boy had a much higher chance. Tyrion doesn't give a single thought about the Blackfyre's during he exchange...

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That's what I'm thinking. She says "If I would have known what was to happen there..." but later in the sentence it implies that she knew what was going to happen. Which one is it? I also say she wasn't counting on the whole massacre, but knew Robb would die, that's the only way that sentence makes sense to me.

Talking about Mommy Westerling - I think the last: Robb was meant to more or less accitentally die there, but never all the North to be massacred the Frey way.

There's the exchange with the Lannisters taliking in KL that one wolf skin was to be delivered, but apparently Lord Walder did send two instead.

Ned has been confirmed to be dead, I read the SSM stating that yesterday, coincidentally. :P apparently, GRRM said so in 2003, and people have just been ignoring it, haha. Hence all the survival theories.

I did not notice the survival theories as of yet. I thought "As Dead As Ned" was to mean absolutely dead, no gravedigger or stoneheart, second life or dance of the Beric.

Father and mother dying, kids to fend for themselves is a motive that is necessary to the story. It is also big story (and fairytale) material. Deep rooted ancient fantasy and storytelling stuff.

The last puzzle over Ned's dead body is the "where are his bones" thingy and that dead in the Riverlands is a bit spurious. They might have travelled unto some place in the Neck, or have they been lost? Barbrey wants to get at his bones, maybe so do others. Maybe some magick will muck with them in books to come. Howland Reed to the rescue!

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I think so too. The closest example to anything like this is Fireball sending his wife to the Silent Sisters so he could join the Kingsguard

Yeah, I don't remember reading anything where the character has established him/herself first before joining the Watch. Or any of the other orders that require giving up lands, titles and family ties for, to be honest. Other than the one you mention, of course, but the Kingsguard is an appointed position, not something you can voluntarily join. Like, say, I want to join the Citadel and be a maester. What if I'm already married?

I think they key difference may be the forced enlistment into the Watch

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Another quick small question for the board, I didn't look extensively to see if it had been answered before, my apologies if it has or if it's still an ongoing discussion.... In Eddard IX (I believe) as he recalls his dream...



It would have to be his grandfather, for Jory's father was buried far to the south. Martyn Cassel had perished with the rest. Ned had pulled the tower down afterward, and used its bloody stones to build eight cairns upon the ridge. ... They had been seven against three, yet only two had lived to ride away, Eddard Stark himself and the little crannogman, Howland Reed.


I have seven of the eight cairns figured out, but I'm stumped on the last one -- Ned and howland rode off, so five of them were for Martyn Cassel, Theo Wull, Ethan Glover, Mark Ryswell, and Lord Dustin. Two then were Oswell Whent and Gerold Hightower. Lyanna was taken north and Ser Arthur Dayne was returned to Starfall, so who was the last cairn for? I feel like I'm missing something obvious and am about to feel very foolish when somebody points it out to me...


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Another quick small question for the board, I didn't look extensively to see if it had been answered before, my apologies if it has or if it's still an ongoing discussion.... In Eddard IX (I believe) as he recalls his dream...

I have seven of the eight cairns figured out, but I'm stumped on the last one -- Ned and howland rode off, so five of them were for Martyn Cassel, Theo Wull, Ethan Glover, Mark Ryswell, and Lord Dustin. Two then were Oswell Whent and Gerold Hightower. Lyanna was taken north and Ser Arthur Dayne was returned to Starfall, so who was the last cairn for? I feel like I'm missing something obvious and am about to feel very foolish when somebody points it out to me...

Arthur wasn't returned to Starfall, his sword was. So the eighth cairn was for Arthur Dayne.
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Ser Arthur Dayne was returned to Starfall, so who was the last cairn for? I feel like I'm missing something obvious and am about to feel very foolish when somebody points it out to me...

There you go. Ser Arthur Dayne was returned to Starfall you say and maybe you understand that was the case, while in the book...

they told how afterward Ned had carried Ser Arthur's sword back to the beautiful young sister who awaited him in a castle called Starfall

AGoT 06 Catelyn II

eta: quote:

That's the ticket! Like I said, letting waves of foolishness wash over me now :P

Actually when I joined the forum that was a popular theory based on the misconception the "the sword of the morning" was returned. That would have been Arthur in person, and not a piece of hmmmm,,,metal(?).

Still, the book uses different language. /eta

... just in case also a living Ser Arthur would have been returned, the eighth cairn would have featured as a cover-up. But I now doubt it for the sake of tragedy.

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Actually when I joined the forum that was a popular theory based on the misconception the "the sword of the morning" was returned. That would have been Arthur in person, and not a piece of hmmmm,,,metal(?).

Hmm, very interesting indeed. What's really mind blowing is how much more I pick up with each reread! I think to myself, honestly? Were you even reading it last time??

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There is one thing I don't get.


The drowning ceremony.


So do they literally drown them?Or just dip them into the water for a while?


And if they drown them and revive them does that mean that drowned god priests have magical powers?


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There is one thing I don't get.

The drowning ceremony.

So do they literally drown them?Or just dip them into the water for a while?

And if they drown them and revive them does that mean that drowned god priests have magical powers?

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Artificial_respiration

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There is one thing I don't get.

The drowning ceremony.

So do they literally drown them?Or just dip them into the water for a while?

And if they drown them and revive them does that mean that drowned god priests have magical powers?

They drown people yes. Then they "magically revive them" with the use of CPR :p Read the opening to Aeron's chapter and you'll see it :p
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