Small Questions v.10087

[Consigliere]

Two questions:

1) I remember Ran chiming in on the Viserys=Darkstar theory before. Does anyone remember what he said that killed it? (apart from already released testual evidence). I seemed to remember a Dayne family tree mentioned, but now I'm not sure I.imagined it.

2) Do we know when, how and.where Bittersteel died? I.e. in a rebellion, in Tyrosh etc?

1. Ran did mention that Martin has a Dayne family tree circa. the rebellion. Here's the post.

2. No info on that as far as I recall. The app lists place of death simply as Essos. The text only mentions "on his death bed". I'd speculate that he died of natural causes.

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

Two questions:

1) I remember Ran chiming in on the Viserys=Darkstar theory before. Does anyone remember what he said that killed it? (apart from already released testual evidence). I seemed to remember a Dayne family tree mentioned, but now I'm not sure I.imagined it.

2) Do we know when, how and.where Bittersteel died? I.e. in a rebellion, in Tyrosh etc?

1) I am looking for you, but can't find anything.. For as far as I am aware, that theory is still very much alive.

2) Bittersteel died in Essos, after he was wounded. Seeing as how he fought in 3 Blackfyre Rebellions, that would place his last known actions in the Fourth Blackfyre Rebellion (let is be obvious, he did not take part in the Second Blackfyre Rebellion). The Westerland Reading placed the fourth rebellion in 236AC, IIRC. If Bittersteel got injured there (he would have been in his 60ties), he would have died shortly after.

On his deathbed, he famously commanded his men to dip his skull in gold. "Deadbed" shows he did not die in battle, but in his own camp.. thus most likely somewhere in Essos.

[HexMachina]

1. Ran did mention that Martin has a Dayne family tree circa. the rebellion. Here's the post.

Thanks!

1) I am looking for you, but can't find anything.. For as far as I am aware, that theory is still very much alive.

2) Bittersteel died in Essos, after he was wounded. Seeing as how he fought in 3 Blackfyre Rebellions, that would place his last known actions in the Fourth Blackfyre Rebellion (let is be obvious, he did not take part in the Second Blackfyre Rebellion). The Westerland Reading placed the fourth rebellion in 236AC, IIRC. If Bittersteel got injured there (he would have been in his 60ties), he would have died shortly after.

On his deathbed, he famously commanded his men to dip his skull in gold. "Deadbed" shows he did not die in battle, but in his own camp.. thus most likely somewhere in Essos.

Thank you. :)

[nastydream]

Is the She-Bear like the sister of Jorah or something?

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

Thanks!

Thank you. :)

I can tell you though that in 300AC, Darkstar is in his late twenties (thus 26-29), placing his birth in or between 274AC and 270AC.

Viserys was 8 years old in late 283AC, when he fled to Dragonstone. This places his birth in either 275AC (7 turning 8) or 274AC (8 turning 9).

So there is one year overlap, but quite honestly, those theories usually have some more problems than ages.. Like, why would "fViserys" state he's a dragon ("You don't want to wake the dragon, do you?"), if he's not really Viserys, and why would Darkstar be bitter about being a Dayne, if he's not actually a Dayne..?

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

Is the She-Bear like the sister of Jorah or something?

Maege Mormont is the younger sister of Jeor Mormont. Jeor is the father of Jorah. Alysanne Mormont, the She-Bear, is a younger daughter of Maege (the second born, IIRC). So Alysanne and Jorah are cousins.

[Jon Weirgaryen]

thank you Jon weirgaryen..i was having doubts whether it happened in AGOT or not and thank you for clearing it

Also I misremembered it to be in AGoT and only when I did not find it there either in a Jon or Tyrion@CB chapter I moved on to find it in ACoK. At least, there.

[HexMachina]

I can tell you though that in 300AC, Darkstar is in his late twenties (thus 26-29), placing his birth in or between 274AC and 270AC.

Viserys was 8 years old in late 283AC, when he fled to Dragonstone. This places his birth in either 275AC (7 turning 8) or 274AC (8 turning 9).

So there is one year overlap, but quite honestly, those theories usually have some more problems than ages.. Like, why would "fViserys" state he's a dragon ("You don't want to wake the dragon, do you?"), if he's not really Viserys, and why would Darkstar be bitter about being a Dayne, if he's not actually a Dayne..?

I don't think that Darkstar = Viserys, but I promised someone in the "Wishful Thinking" thread I would find Ran's comment about the Dayne family tree though. I couldn't find it (despite having commented in the thread :dunno: ) so cam here to ask :p

There are more problems with Darkstar = Viserys than just age of course :lol:

[nastydream]

Maege Mormont is the younger sister of Jeor Mormont. Jeor is the father of Jorah. Alysanne Mormont, the She-Bear, is a younger daughter of Maege (the second born, IIRC). So Alysanne and Jorah are cousins.

ok thanks a lot :cheers:

[Jon Weirgaryen]

On his deathbed, he famously commanded his men to dip his skull in gold. "Deadbed" shows he did not die in battle, but in his own camp.. thus most likely somewhere in Essos.

In the real world, battle wounds used to fester and tetanus might kill a wounded warrior after days and up to many months after a battle. I remember reading of wounds festering or the treatment of using boiling liquids to cleanse wounds in the text, so it may very well exist in Westeros. That might mean, people can die from battle struck wounds in their beds, quite a while later.

Still, for the instances, Martin would tell us the whole story. And thus that may not have been the case for Bittersteel.

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

In the real world, battle wounds used to fester and tetanus might kill a wounded warrior after days and up to many months after a battle. I remember reading of wounds festering or the treatment of using boiling liquids to cleanse wounds in the text, so it may very well exist in Westeros. That might mean, people can die from battle struck wounds in their beds, quite a while later.

Still, for the instances, Martin would tell us the whole story. And thus that may not have been the case for Bittersteel.

No indeed. All we can say with certainty is that Bittersteel was still alive "at some point" in 236AC. He could have died later that year. He also could have lived on for some more years.

Though, with the big amount of time between Blackfyre Rebellion #4 (236AC) and Blackfyre Rebellion #5 (260AC), I think that Bittersteel died not all too long after the fourth rebellion..

[Mithras]

Theon heard himself say, “My lady, why do you hate the Starks?”

She studied him. “For the same reason you love them.”

Theon stumbled. “Love them? I never … I took this castle from them, my lady. I had … had Bran and Rickon put to death, mounted their heads on spikes, I …”

“… rode south with Robb Stark, fought beside him at the Whispering Wood and Riverrun, returned to the Iron Islands as his envoy to treat with your own father. Barrowton sent men with the Young Wolf as well. I gave him as few men as I dared, but I knew that I must needs give him some or risk the wroth of Winterfell. So I had my own eyes and ears in that host. They kept me well informed. I know who you are. I know what you are. Now answer my question. Why do you love the Starks?”

“I …” Theon put a gloved hand against a pillar. “… I wanted to be one of them …”

Excuse me but were the miller's boys ever beheaded and their heads mounted on spikes? They were burned as a whole IIRC.

[Jon Weirgaryen]

Excuse me but were the miller's boys ever beheaded and their heads mounted on spikes? They were burned as a whole IIRC.

On their iron spikes atop the gatehouse, the heads waited.

Theon gazed at them silently while the wind tugged on his cloak with small ghostly hands. The miller's boys had been of an age with Bran and Rickon, alike in size and coloring, and once Reek had flayed the skin from their faces and dipped their heads in tar, it was easy to see familiar features in those misshapen lumps of rotting flesh. People were such fools. If we'd said they were rams' heads, they would have seen horns.

ACoK 56 Theon V (eta: last paragraph of the chapter)

The show allowed for their full deformed bodies to be tarred and hanged, so Maester Luwin was able to note much to strong muscles on supposedly Bran's useless limp legs. I think there confusion lies.

[LordImp]

Can a knight say no the the Kingsguard or does he have to say yes to his king?

[Jon Weirgaryen]

Can a knight say no the the Kingsguard or does he have to say yes to his king?

is it a koan? (it has 19 syllables, cannot be a haiku)

Do you mean if a knight could refuse an order given by a Kingsguard knight?

I'd say that depends a lot on the situation he is in.

Or did you mean the nomination of the king to join the ranks and brotherhood of the kingsguard?

It is dangerous to cross the will of a king, but you could always flee across the narrow sea or join the night's watch.

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

is it a koan? (it has 19 syllables, cannot be a haiku)

Do you mean if a knight could refuse an order given by a Kingsguard knight?

I'd say that depends a lot on the situation he is in.

Or did you mean the nomination of the king to join the ranks and brotherhood of the kingsguard?

It is dangerous to cross the will of a king, but you could always flee across the narrow sea or join the night's watch.

I think the question is, can you, as a knight, refuse to become a KG knight, when your king asks you to join?

That you are chosen by your king is a huge honour, and I can't think of anyone who has refused. I'd say that it usually is discussed in private prior to the King publicly asking or announcing you to join. So in private, honourably, you can refuse, and the King can approach someone else.

The manner of how you refuse, will be utterly most important.

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

When does the NW letter to Stannis arrive at Dragonstone? It was there for quite some time before Davos read it (it arrived while Alester Florent was still the Hand of the King for Stannis). Can anyone point me to the chapter?

Edit: the letter is mentioned in Davos V, but has its arrival been mentioned before?

[The Bedding]

No, that's the Stinky Steward :)

:) I read in the forums one day that there was a boat named the Perfumed Seneschal in the books. And some very notable characters were on it simultaneously at one point. I remember looking through the books and found it but afterward, I forgot which boat. Was it the boat that Griff's party + Tyrion travelled on?

[Lost Melnibonean]

When does the NW letter to Stannis arrive at Dragonstone? It was there for quite some time before Davos read it (it arrived while Alester Florent was still the Hand of the King for Stannis). Can anyone point me to the chapter?

Edit: the letter is mentioned in Davos V, but has its arrival been mentioned before?

It should have arrived around the same time the letter arrived in KL, when Tobho Mott presented the swords reforged from Ice.

[Mychel_Redfort]

Davos reads the letter in Storm 54. Alester is thrown in the dungeons in Storm 25.