Jon Snow: A bigger deal than we thought?

[RedRain on my Window Pane]

Hello fellow ASoIaF fans. After re-reading Jon's last chapter in Book 5 I started thinking about his character and his importance in the overall arc of the story. I believe all or most of us would agree that he is one of the main three characters in the book, along with Tyrion and Danny.However I started putting some thought into a couple of points and came to the realization that he may be even more than that.

I am basing this on a couple of notions that we, as readers do not have guaranteed answers to, however they are very likely. If we assume for a moment that Jon is the offspring of Rhaegar and Lyanna, and that Robb Stark DID name Jon as his heir in the letter that is yet to be revealed, than that would mean that Jon Snow is the only character that I am aware of that could be decried as The King in the North AND the rightful ruler of Westeros. Pretty amazing when you have a person that can claim one of those titles, but both!?!? That individual would be paramount in bridging/healing the tattered relationship of the North and South. Anyways let me know if any of you have put some thought into this as well. Jon Snow for the win indeed.

[BigDickPodrick]

You should read the great northern conspiracy!

http://www.reddit.com/r/asoiaf/comments/1iwfc1/spoilers_all_the_grand_northern_conspiracy_parts/

[RedRain on my Window Pane]

Thank you for the link ill read that on my lunch break. It seems to me that if he is named Robb's heir and he is the child of R + L, then he would have the opportunity to make remarkable, massive changes for the good of the North and South.

[UnmaskedLurker]

Hello fellow ASoIaF fans. After re-reading Jon's last chapter in Book 5 I started thinking about his character and his importance in the overall arc of the story. I believe all or most of us would agree that he is one of the main three characters in the book, along with Tyrion and Danny.However I started putting some thought into a couple of points and came to the realization that he may be even more than that.

I am basing this on a couple of notions that we, as readers do not have guaranteed answers to, however they are very likely. If we assume for a moment that Jon is the offspring of Rhaegar and Lyanna, and that Robb Stark DID name Jon as his heir in the letter that is yet to be revealed, than that would mean that Jon Snow is the only character that I am aware of that could be decried as The King in the North AND the rightful ruler of Westeros. Pretty amazing when you have a person that can claim one of those titles, but both!?!? That individual would be paramount in bridging/healing the tattered relationship of the North and South. Anyways let me know if any of you have put some thought into this as well. Jon Snow for the win indeed.

You certainly are not the first to see Jon's central importance to the story. I think that Jon is very important--he is A Son(g) of Ice (Lyanna) and Fire (Rhaegar), personified. This makes him The Prince That Was Promised. He also is Azor Ahai Reborn (Mel looks for AAR and only sees Snow--capitalized in the book). While I agree that Jon, Dany and Tryion are the three main characters (the three heads of the dragon, perhaps), Jon appears to be the most important and most central in the entire series.

[keira_targaryen]

Yep.

[SirCharles of HouseBarkley]

I had a thought this evening. We learned in a previous exerpt that Lyanna's parents were both Starks. It was already known that Rheagar was Targ on both sides. That means that not only was Rheagar the purest Targ for many generations, but Lyanna was the purest Stark in (at least our) recorded history. Along with R+L=J, this should lend credibility to Jon Snow being the SOIAF if his parents were the purest Targaryens and Starks in generations.

[RedRain on my Window Pane]

That is an interesting point about Jon being the PwwP. I've heard arguments that it's Danny but to be honest I've always felt that it was Jon Snow. And Melisandres vision in the fire definetely hints to that. The PwwP definetely isn't Stannis, as much as I like and respect his character.

I would love yalls input on what happens to Snow after his last chapter in Book 5. GRRM mentioned that before the series ends we will learn about who his true parents. I can't imagine that being the case and Jon Snow not being alive to learn about it once its unveiled......

One last thing, if you haven't read about the Great Northern Conspiracy yet please check out that link. Very, very well thought out and put together

[Steelborn]

Bigger than we thought? I think the majority of this forum already thinks Jon is the biggest deal, as big as it gets.

[RedRain on my Window Pane]

Hey all, i wanted to pick yall's brain on one more thing Jon-related. Specifically the section below

"John reached for Longclaw, but his fingers had grown stiff and clumsy. Somehow he could not seem to get the sword free of its scabbard."

This segment really bothers me for some reason. I understand that his sword hand was burned, but this Guy trains with a blade everyday. WHY is he unable to get Longclaw free so he can defend himself? This has been a major sticking point with me. Anywho if y'all have a minute let me know your thoughts on this. I'm guessing I'm not the only one bothered by this.

[Ghost's Shadow]

Some think that Jon had been poisoned earlier on by Mully (the wine), while others think that the first knife cut - his throat - had poison in it (which now that I think on it is ridiculous because you don't need poison when you're going for someone's throat.)

Others will say that Jon not being able to draw his sword was foreshadowed by a sentence in the books. I found one in aCoK that I'm hoping is the one:

He began to flex his hand, opening and closing the fingers. If he let his sword hand stiffen and grow clumsy, it well might be the end of him, he knew. A man needed his sword beyond the Wall.

Though Jon and his hand flexing was something he did automatically by Dance, and he just came from a meeting in a building, maybe it is not the right answer either.

Some others believe that the sword was frozen in the scabbard and therefore couldn't be drawn. But if he again just came from the inside of a building where hopefully the temperature was above freezing... should it be doing that?

Eh.

At the very least, for plot reasons he couldn't draw his sword and kill the ones who meant him harm. Whether Jon wants to or not, he's going to learn how to warg and the time is now. :lol:

[Lee Daly]

Surely the north would have to accept him as their heir.

Plus, if he and Dany were wed, would she be ok with being queen by marriage as Jon has the greater claim on the IT.

As for the sword, perhaps it just all happened to quick for him to think about his flexing and to get Longclaw out

[RedRain on my Window Pane]

Excellent points Shadow, Lee. The thought had come to my mind that the wine that Jon drank just prior to his stabbing, when he is sitting down with Marsh and Yarwick, was poisoned. In my mind that is the most likely explanation because, as Shadow mentioned, the brief period between him leaving his room for the meeting and the stabbing occurring would not be sufficient time for his sword to freeze in its scabbard.

Also Shadow 100% agree about the warging. I see that being the most likely next thing that happens to Jon, second theory would be him being burned after being considered dead and rising again as a true Targaryen, and third him simply being dead. I believe that the coma like state that Jon will be in as he recovers will be the springboard that enhances his warging, a la Bran and being pushed out the window at WF.

[Wmarshal]

seeing how some see him as savior of all their is and king of the world, no, I don't think people can see him as bigger.

[Ghost's Shadow]

I should like to say that I don't see them burning Jon next, because Targaryens aren't meant to be fire proof, what happened with Daenerys was supposed to be a one off.

Consider this: when you throw someone who you suspect of being a witch in a lake, what will happen? If she drowns she was innocent, should she make it out she is guilty of using witchcraft.

So when you bind a maegi to a funeral pyre what will she do? Just let herself die like an ordinary person would almost 'have' to do since they'd have no magical outs? Or would she try to rescue herself by casting a spell so she could resist the fire? If so, it sure didn't end up helping her but Daenerys instead was the Unburnt.

[RedRain on my Window Pane]

Hey Ghost thanks for the reply. I don't think it's a very likely scenario either, at least in my mind. However I have seen the theory floated here and there that Jon does die, however when he is burned as he's put to rest so that he doesn't come back as a wight, that the fire "rejuvenates " him I guess would be the best way to put it. After he rises again from the fire his Targaryen blood takes over and he pursues becoming the third head of the dragon. A pretty far-out theory, and I believe that the theory that he goes into a coma and his warging abilities greatly increase is much more likely than him rising again as a Targaryen Phoenix. To be honest I just want Jon to survive the stabbing, we've already lost Eddard, Catelyn and Robb. If Jon perishes as well I would really consider calling it good with this series.

One quick question, if Jon does survive do you still envision that he will leave the NW to kick some Bolton ass or no?

[Queen‍‍‍‍‍‍ Alysanne‍‍™]

I should like to say that I don't see them burning Jon next, because Targaryens aren't meant to be fire proof, what happened with Daenerys was supposed to be a one off.

Consider this: when you throw someone who you suspect of being a witch in a lake, what will happen? If she drowns she was innocent, should she make it out she is guilty of using witchcraft.

So when you bind a maegi to a funeral pyre what will she do? Just let herself die like an ordinary person would almost 'have' to do since they'd have no magical outs? Or would she try to rescue herself by casting a spell so she could resist the fire? If so, it sure didn't end up helping her but Daenerys instead was the Unburnt.

This theory has been debunked by the author himself, in an SSM recently. Yes Dany spell was a one-time spell, but it had nothing to do with Mirri, her only role was a sacrifice, Dany was the one that performed the ritual to hatch the eggs.

The spell was based on instinct so obviously that particular spell can't be performed again, instinct is a temporary thing.

[Ghost's Shadow]

^ Ah, okay. Thanks. ;)

Hey Ghost thanks for the reply. I don't think it's a very likely scenario either, at least in my mind. However I have seen the theory floated here and there that Jon does die, however when he is burned as he's put to rest so that he doesn't come back as a wight, that the fire "rejuvenates " him I guess would be the best way to put it. After he rises again from the fire his Targaryen blood takes over and he pursues becoming the third head of the dragon. A pretty far-out theory, and I believe that the theory that he goes into a coma and his warging abilities greatly increase is much more likely than him rising again as a Targaryen Phoenix. To be honest I just want Jon to survive the stabbing, we've already lost Eddard, Catelyn and Robb. If Jon perishes as well I would really consider calling it good with this series.

One quick question, if Jon does survive do you still envision that he will leave the NW to kick some Bolton ass or no?

I can understand you wanting Jon to live, and not be some kind of changed (zombie-ish) person after this experience. I'd like that, too.

What I'd like to see myself is the Free Folk fixing up Jon's body like they did with Mance's (when they fixed his cloak for him with red yarn). Mance supposedly bled worse than the animal they were trying to kill, and it perhaps could be paralleled with Jon. He tried to do a lot for the Free Folk, and I've seen some people say that to them he's their king, so I say let them try to heal his wounds the normal way. (I'm not a fan of Mel's so she doesn't exist. :P)

I'd like to believe in the GNC, but it's not (unless I'm lying to myself) just to see Jon as KitN. You see, I knew about the Red Wedding before I read it, and so I could see things coming from a mile far. What really stood out there was that a perfectly healthy young king with a young wife randomly stopped to quickly legitimise his bastard brother and make him king should anything happen to him and he died without successor. If it wasn't going to be used in some way then that scene didn't really need to be added, did it? It gave so much away of what was going to happen, imo.

As for Jon kicking Bolton ass... I don't know if I believe Ramsay is actually coming to the Wall.