Ibbison from Ibben Posted August 19, 2014 Share Posted August 19, 2014 RE - why Aenys made the clusterfuck decision to wed Aegon and Rhaena after exiling Maegor for polygamy... here's a chunk from the write up I'm working on... I'm very much looking forward to your write-up. This reading has received outstanding coverage, and we're all grateful to the reporters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yolkboy Posted August 19, 2014 Share Posted August 19, 2014 I'm very much looking forward to your write-up. This reading has received outstanding coverage, and we're all grateful to the reporters. Thanks, Lord Varys and Aratan worked hard in difficult circumstances (usually from a food court) to get their info out quickly. we're presenting a podcast that will be released at the weekend hopefully. It will include: - Thorough analysis of Sons of the dragon reading - Interview with Elio & Linda about the World of Ice and Fire Book (plus history of this forum, the app and more) - LonCon overview, slanted as an asoiaf fan - Interview with Ser Mountain Goat (creator of the animated timeline and founding organizer of Titan Con) - Interview with Xray (baroness of Brotherhood without Banners fan group) - and more we'll release Sons of the Dragon extensive notes in written form too, as an accompanying essay. And also a photo journal of LonCon. just editing right now, hopefully Sunday release. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhaenys_Targaryen Posted August 19, 2014 Share Posted August 19, 2014 Thanks, Lord Varys and Aratan worked hard in difficult circumstances (usually from a food court) to get their info out quickly. we're presenting a podcast that will be released at the weekend hopefully. It will include: - Thorough analysis of Sons of the dragon reading- Interview with Elio & Linda about the World of Ice and Fire Book (plus history of this forum, the app and more)- LonCon overview, slanted as an asoiaf fan- Interview with Ser Mountain Goat (creator of the animated timeline and founding organizer of Titan Con)- Interview with Xray (baroness of Brotherhood without Banners fan group)- and more we'll release Sons of the Dragon extensive notes in written form too, as an accompanying essay. And also a photo journal of LonCon. just editing right now, hopefully Sunday release.Sounds awesome! :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dragon Demands Posted August 19, 2014 Share Posted August 19, 2014 RE - why Aenys made the clusterfuck decision to wed Aegon and Rhaena after exiling Maegor for polygamy... here's a chunk from the write up I'm working on... Aeyns became inspired and worked hard to finish the Red Keep. In this time he contemplated the Targaryen traditions, and thinking of the thousand year legacy he planned for the Red Keep, made the disastrous decision to wed son and daughter – Aegon and Rhaena – aged eighteen and fifteen. Seems he became proud and sentimental about Targaryen history and legacy as he became more involved with building the Red Keep. (there could well be more to this but that's the explanation that was given. I wonder if he realised something about dragon riding) Yikes. Question for the podcast: It's difficult to get a "feel" for Aenys, because he's alternatively described as a weakling, but then the reading points out that he wasn't a total embarassment (at jousting, etc.) To me, he vaguely sounds like...a cross between Baelor the Blessed and Aerys I, though that doesn't cover it well. Was he actually "intelligent"? He doesn't seem scholarly, so much as a dilletant who enjoyed various obscure topics (he sounds like the youngest son on Arrested Development). But again, the reading says that people actually thought he was personally charismatic. Okay this is some real-life history here, but he vaguely reminds me of King Stephen of England. During the Anarchy, people didn't turn on Stephen because he was a tyrant - Matlida was the domineering one. It's easy to villify someone who behaves "tyrannically". But Stephen was personally charismatic and generous...the problem was that, like Aenys, he was a god-damned weathervane. If three lords visited him in turn, he'd promise each of the them same castles/titles. He promised more than he could actually give and contradicted himself. He was always pleasant in person, but there came a point when you realized he was bullshitting you - perhaps not even intentionally. Sort of like...okay another HBO series, "Oz", I think arguably the real villain of the show was the prison warden, Tim McManus. He's so determined to be a "nice and empathetic guy" that he ignores major problems and seems to have no grip on reality. For example, the live read said that when Jonos Arryn revolted, Aenys kept trying to figure out what he wanted...when he wanted nothing less than full independence (reminds me sort of Neville Chamberlain in that; just find out what Germany wants and they'll go away - well they want unreasonable demands like ceding entire countries to them). Back to the "Oz" analogy, McManus keeps trying to "talk things out" with Schilinger, even though Schilinger is the head of the Aryan Brotherhood in the prison and an unrepentent monster who enjoys raping new inmates. There's nothing to "discuss". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Varys Posted August 19, 2014 Share Posted August 19, 2014 I guess the best take on Aenys would be that he was sort of aloof and estranged from the people he ruled, while he was at the same time very apt in making personal connections. One notes that prior to the Alys thing he and Maegor seemed to have had a working relationship.The real problem was his indecisiveness. The Lords were testing his resolve, and no one seems to have prepared him for that - most likely because House Targaryen did never face a major crisis after Aegon finally made peace with Dorne in 10s. Both Aenys and Maegor only knew the Conquest from people telling them stories, and Aenys was apparently very reluctant in weaponizing his dragons, for fear he could get somebody killed the way his mother died.Considering his social skills, he could have been a great peace-and-plenty king - he very much resembles his great-grandson, Viserys I, anyway. But back in those days the king still had to actively lead himself, and he apparently was not all that good in that field. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ibbison from Ibben Posted August 20, 2014 Share Posted August 20, 2014 The first transition is always the toughest for a new dynasty, because it sets a precedent, and some folks don't want a precedent to be set. The whole idea of a single king was a first for Westeros, or at least the first time it had been successfully achieved. Some lords would not have liked that. Some would have been okay with it, but saw the transition as a chance to change the rules a bit in their favor. Aenys had a tough job, and he didn't do it well. The Robert - Joff transition was a similar case (if you ignore the Joff parentage situation), with the Lannisters taking advantage of the transition to seize as much power as they could. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Varys Posted August 20, 2014 Share Posted August 20, 2014 Yes, the weak/disinterested king, strong Hand partnership couldn't work at this point in the history. The fact that the Targaryens still ruled via progresses as traveling kings rather than from their capital, strongly suggests that personal charisma - which Aenys had - and strength of will - which he lacked - was everything at that point.Maegor would fail, too, most likely because of his lack of charisma, his paranoia, and his growing madness/cruelty.If I had to speculate then my guess would be that the Handship only rose to the powerful Prime Minister-like office during the long reign of Septon Barth. Before that, the Iron Throne would have been king's alone, with only his wives sitting on it besides him, no one else would be allowed to speak with the King's Voice. Later on, of course, the women were excluded from that, as always. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Varys Posted August 20, 2014 Share Posted August 20, 2014 Just a quick speculation about the names:Aenys clearly named after Rhaenys and Aegon, his parents, Maegor either after Maegon Targaryen on Dragonstone, or after some unknown dragonlord.Rhaena was named after her dead grandmother, Aegon after his grandfather, Viserys after Visenya.Jaehaerys is a harder nut to crack, but since TRP stated that Jacaerys is a traditional Velaryon name, so he and Alysanne could have been named after an ancestor of Alyssa. No idea about Vaella. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moondancer Posted August 20, 2014 Share Posted August 20, 2014 Aenys... Because Rhaegon doesn't quite work. :D Was just reading up on another breezy interview given by GRRM where he says he picks up "how to name your baby" books for the characters' names inspiration. - He added that he had tried online fantasy name generators that spit out 50 names at a a time but said "they all turn out to be 'Grisnopple.'"A lot of fantasy names are too much to me," he added."They're too difficult to pronounce." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhaenys_Targaryen Posted August 20, 2014 Share Posted August 20, 2014 Just a quick speculation about the names:Aenys clearly named after Rhaenys and Aegon, his parents, Maegor either after Maegon Targaryen on Dragonstone, or after some unknown dragonlord.Rhaena was named after her dead grandmother, Aegon after his grandfather, Viserys after Visenya.Jaehaerys is a harder nut to crack, but since TRP stated that Jacaerys is a traditional Velaryon name, so he and Alysanne could have been named after an ancestor of Alyssa. No idea about Vaella.Perhaps Vaella was named for another Velaryon, as we have Valaena Velaryon, and Vaemond Velaryon.. Those two names come close to Vaella... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Gwynhyfvar Posted August 20, 2014 Author Share Posted August 20, 2014 Aenys... Because Rhaegon doesn't quite work. :D Was just reading up on another breezy interview given by GRRM where he says he picks up "how to name your baby" books for the characters' names inspiration.- He added that he had tried online fantasy name generators that spit out 50 names at a a time but said "they all turn out to be 'Grisnopple.'"A lot of fantasy names are too much to me," he added."They're too difficult to pronounce." That was yesterday's interview with Robin Hobb, where he spoke at length on naming, detailing how his names basically shadow the waves of settlement irl Britain (i.e. Britons, Angles, Saxons, Normans etc) So the simple First Men names are followed by the more linguistically complicated Andal names and culminate in the exotic Valyrian names, which I suppose mimic the French names of Britain's Norman conquerors. Yeah he mentioned baby books, which most writers possess, but didn't seem to use them much. It sounds like mostly he looks to history, and his own imagination. The fantasy name generator comment was lol. Robin Hobb was a real contrast, going on at length about the inspirations for the magical and "true" names she uses. My favorite quote from the interview, replying to a question from the audience-- "Writing is weird, man." :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acnologia Targaryen Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 Wow so the relationship between Aegon/Rhaenys/Visenya was way more complex than i thought. Props to aegon though the made it sound liek it was Orys and his sisters that ran the Kingdom and he only stepped in when necessary. Glad that wasn't the case he traveled and was diplomatic even with dorne after they killed rhaenys and all they got back was the body of her dragon and not her body. Visenya seems to have held it together after he died and she even killed her own nephew to ensure House Targaryen remained strong. Wish we could also get a history of their life on dragon stone and why they took so long to have children. So was aegon a knight when he knighted Maegor i would like to know that. Maegor seems to be more interesting than i thought even though he was a kin slayer and a sociopath, but the guy was owning people since he was 13 why isn't he listed as one of Westeros greatest warriors then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yolkboy Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 So was aegon a knight when he knighted Maegor i would like to know that. Maegor seems to be more interesting than i thought even though he was a kin slayer and a sociopath, but the guy was owning people since he was 13 why isn't he listed as one of Westeros greatest warriors then. Grrm said he was considered one of the greatest warriors of his time in the reading. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RumHam Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 So was aegon a knight when he knighted Maegor i would like to know that. Maegor seems to be more interesting than i thought even though he was a kin slayer and a sociopath, but the guy was owning people since he was 13 why isn't he listed as one of Westeros greatest warriors then. A king can knight people, even if he himself was never knighted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lonin Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 snip. just editing right now, hopefully Sunday release. Thanks for your efforts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acnologia Targaryen Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 Grrm said he was considered one of the greatest warriors of his time in the reading. I get his time i'm talking about the later generation i mean why does no one mention him in the same breathe as daemon blackfyre or arthur dayne, then again neither is daemon targaryen. A king can knight people, even if he himself was never knighted. oh ok thanks. Hmmm makes me wonder if aegon knighted dunk in secret lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingBlackfyre Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 Didn't Criston Cole repeatedly beat Daemon like whenever they fought Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhaenys_Targaryen Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 Has anyone submitted their notes yet for westeros.org/citadel? As was done for the notes of the Westerland reading? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arataniello Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 Arataniello,Murmison to make C. Hightower fertile - again? So, she was pregnant at some point? Or her marriage to Maegor isn't her first? This ("again") may have been an editorial slip (by me) and not from the reading itself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhaenys_Targaryen Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 This ("again") may have been an editorial slip (by me) and not from the reading itself. Still.. how was Murmison supposed to make Ceryse fertile, with Maegor in exile? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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