Leofrid Posted August 15, 2014 Share Posted August 15, 2014 Ok so i did a quick search for this guy on the forums and nothing came up, thought i better make a topic.what sort of role do you think he'll play in winds? Will he survive the battle of mereen ( i reckon so) will he acheive his goal and and take pnetos (i doubt it). I've been toying with the idea that the seige is broken dany denies him pentos and he and barristan have some epic duel, it'd be nice to see barristan in action and im guessing the prince is no slouch when it comes to combat. what're your thoughts sorry if this topic has been broached before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bent branch Posted August 23, 2014 Share Posted August 23, 2014 I think the deal is that the Tattered Prince will make sure that the hostages are rescued and then Dany's group will help the Tattered Prince take Pentos. All well and good. However, there may not be any hostages to rescue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leofrid Posted August 23, 2014 Author Share Posted August 23, 2014 Hasnt dany already refused him pentos? Surely this will create friction between dany and barristan. this also puts her at odds with mr mopatis who gave her her dragons (probably unkowingly) and sheltered her and her brother from would be assassins Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carey Snow Posted August 23, 2014 Share Posted August 23, 2014 Hasnt dany already refused him pentos? Surely this will create friction between dany and barristan. this also puts her at odds with mr mopatis who gave her her dragons (probably unkowingly) and sheltered her and her brother from would be assassins Exactly. I doubt that Dany will be very happy with Selmy as she had previously denied the Tattered Prince Pentos earlier in the book. I don't think Dany will meet back up with her Army till they get to Pentos. She is going to go through the Great Grass Sea and Vaes Dothrak, her army will sail there from Meereen. If her Army gets there first, she may very well find Pentos sacked and the TP in control. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Endymion I Targaryen Posted August 23, 2014 Share Posted August 23, 2014 If she learns from Tyrion about fAegon and that Illyrio helped him she will not be as sure as she was for her decision.Anyway I believe more they will head to Volantis than Pentos.And Selmy may not be alive when she returns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hrafntýr Posted August 23, 2014 Share Posted August 23, 2014 There were some good ideas in this thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Universal Sword Donor Posted August 24, 2014 Share Posted August 24, 2014 Exactly. I doubt that Dany will be very happy with Selmy as she had previously denied the Tattered Prince Pentos earlier in the book. I don't think Dany will meet back up with her Army till they get to Pentos. She is going to go through the Great Grass Sea and Vaes Dothrak, her army will sail there from Meereen. If her Army gets there first, she may very well find Pentos sacked and the TP in control. When and where did Dany speak to him? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragon88 Posted August 24, 2014 Share Posted August 24, 2014 What is with the people in this forum and killing Selmy. Everyone keeps on saying Selmy will die. Its just so weird. I think Selmy would survive very long and if he dies, I see it in the 7th book or beyond. He is a interesting character and a good character for Dany. He is a good role model who can properly educate Dany about Westeros. One thing that happened to Dany from the beginning is that she has very warped knowledge about what happened in the rebellion and about Westeros. Her knowledge was basically Viserys who was a nutcase. Jorah who is just infatuated with her and a criminal. Selmy is someone who has experience in Westeros and has seen kings rule and have been in different events. He is someone who is knowledgeable and can properly show Dany towards the right path. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Casso, King of the Seals Posted August 24, 2014 Share Posted August 24, 2014 I think Barristan will survive the battle because if the majority of minor story lines in Slaver's Bay are to be concluded somehow, we need a POV that will be present - the battle will doubtlessly tell us where and how people from Yunkai and its allies end up, but there is unresolved politics inside of Meereen and unless Daenerys comes back, I think it would be strange to solve these plot lines through POVs of Tyrion (and/or Victarion), if there is Barristan, who is already familiar with those characters and their stories. Also, would it be a satisfying end for Ser Barristan's story? Well, of course he could die heroically in the battle, but I think he won't meet his end like this. Of the three POVs that are in front of or inside of Meereen, I think the most likely one to die is Victarion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carey Snow Posted August 24, 2014 Share Posted August 24, 2014 When and where did Dany speak to him? Dany does not actually speak to the Tattered Prince himself but rather through Meris and Selmy. It is in the aDwD chapter in which Dany flies off on Drogon's back from the fighting pits. Ser Barristan lowered his voice, "Your Grace. We set the woman Meris free as you commanded. Before she went, she asked to speak with you. I met her instead. She claims this Tattered Prince meant to bring the Windblown over to your cause from the beginning. That he sent her here to treat with you secretly, but the Dornishmen unmasked them and betrayed them before she could make her own approach." Treachery upon treachery, the queen thought wearily. Is there no no end to it? "How much of this do you believe, ser?" "Little and less, Your Grace, but those were her words." "Will they come over to us if need be?" "She says they will, but for a price." "Pay it." Meereen needed iron, not gold. "The tattered Prince will want more than coin, your Grace. Meris says that he wants Pentos." "Pentos?" Her eyes narrowed. "How can I give him Pentos? It is half a world away." "He would be willing to wait, the woman Meris suggested. Until we march for Westeros." And if I never march for Westeros? "Pentos belongs to the Pentoshi. And Magister Illyrio is in Pentos. He who arranged my marriage to Kahl Drogo and gave me my dragon eggs. Who sent me you, and Belwas, and Groleo. I owe him much and more. I will not repay that debt by giving his city to some sell sword. No." Ser Barristan inclined his head. "Your Grace is wise." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoid Posted August 24, 2014 Share Posted August 24, 2014 It would seem convenient to simply double cross the sellsword. I mean, what's he really gonna do, especially if he's short a head. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carey Snow Posted August 25, 2014 Share Posted August 25, 2014 It would seem convenient to simply double cross the sellsword. I mean, what's he really gonna do, especially if he's short a head. The problem is that Selmy is not really a "double cross" type of guy. However, Dany gave him a pretty explicit order not to give away Pentos, and he did. It maybe in his interest to nip that one in the bud early before it even comes to Dany's attention. I am not sure Selmy will though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leofrid Posted August 25, 2014 Author Share Posted August 25, 2014 i am 100% sure both selmy and the tattered prince will survive the battle. letting either one die would be a shame, it'd be to early for barristan to die and if the tattered prince died than selmy would've dodged the proverbial bullet and grrm doesn't often let his characters do that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asshat by the Shadow Posted August 25, 2014 Share Posted August 25, 2014 I mostly think he's going to die because of what GRRM recently said about having multiple POV characters in the same place gives him freedom to kill some of them off. Also, the people above who have argued against him dying have imo provided arguments for him dying. Selmy as advisor to Dany: the argument was that Selmy is needed to provide his unbiased knowledge of Westeros to make Dany a good ruler. But isn't it more dramatic to have her learn about Westeros from Tyrion--who won't sugarcoat things as much as Selmy did, and is of the opinion that Westeros is completely full of shit--and Victarion--a pirate captain from the other end of Westeros estranged from the rest of the continent, who also thinks Westeros is full of shit? The argument that Selmy is a good influence need not apply when it's more fun if Dany has terrible influences. Selmy as conspirator with the Tattered Prince: The argument is that Selmy needs to be around to answer either to Dany for going against her orders, or to the Tattered Prince for going back on his word to deliver Pentos. However, I think if we're ever going to see the back end of Meereen (hopefully soon), there needs to be as much chaos for Dany as possible. Having Selmy die leaves the burden of debt on Dany, which she will likely refuse and create tension between her and the windblown. It also leaves nobody in charge of Meereen, and we've seen what happens when Ghiscari cities are ruled by idiots (King Cleon anybody?). Shavepate for King likely won't work in anyone's favor, hopefully leading to the destruction of the damn place. Also, having Barristan kick the bucket leaves nobody level-headed enough to potentially accept Jorah back into the fold and I don't think Jorah gets a happy ending Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonBranRickon Posted August 25, 2014 Share Posted August 25, 2014 Your arguments are very sound and make sense to me. Selmy, seems like the logical choice to a speedy demise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brynrivers24 Posted August 25, 2014 Share Posted August 25, 2014 It will be very interesting to see what Dany will do if the hostages are actually rescued. I know she already told the prince no to Pentos but if her bloodrider, her unsullied and her precious Daario is saved what will she do? (My first post) go easy on me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Endymion I Targaryen Posted August 27, 2014 Share Posted August 27, 2014 I mostly think he's going to die because of what GRRM recently said about having multiple POV characters in the same place gives him freedom to kill some of them off. Also, the people above who have argued against him dying have imo provided arguments for him dying. Selmy as advisor to Dany: the argument was that Selmy is needed to provide his unbiased knowledge of Westeros to make Dany a good ruler. But isn't it more dramatic to have her learn about Westeros from Tyrion--who won't sugarcoat things as much as Selmy did, and is of the opinion that Westeros is completely full of shit--and Victarion--a pirate captain from the other end of Westeros estranged from the rest of the continent, who also thinks Westeros is full of shit? The argument that Selmy is a good influence need not apply when it's more fun if Dany has terrible influences. Selmy as conspirator with the Tattered Prince: The argument is that Selmy needs to be around to answer either to Dany for going against her orders, or to the Tattered Prince for going back on his word to deliver Pentos. However, I think if we're ever going to see the back end of Meereen (hopefully soon), there needs to be as much chaos for Dany as possible. Having Selmy die leaves the burden of debt on Dany, which she will likely refuse and create tension between her and the windblown. It also leaves nobody in charge of Meereen, and we've seen what happens when Ghiscari cities are ruled by idiots (King Cleon anybody?). Shavepate for King likely won't work in anyone's favor, hopefully leading to the destruction of the damn place. Also, having Barristan kick the bucket leaves nobody level-headed enough to potentially accept Jorah back into the fold and I don't think Jorah gets a happy ending About Selmy giving knowledge to Dany for Westeros I was thinking the same.His possible death can set up for Tyrion to inform her about Westeros (in a good or bad way that's not the point).Selmy's importance as a character is big but limited.He is the only eye in Dany's army and Meereen but we have already seen enough.In time Tyrion can take Selmy's position as Meereen-POV,if he gains power there.I doubt they will leave Meereen as soon as Dany returns.They will have other issues to solve(dragons,organisation,Yunkai,Sons of Harpy). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CountFJM Posted August 27, 2014 Share Posted August 27, 2014 The main argument I see against Selmy dying is that he was introduced so late in aDwD as a surprise PoV and quickly became a major character: 4 chapters in the last 1/4th of the book, 2 chapters already confirmed early in tWoW. I don't think he'll suddenly die in tWoW (at least in the early going) when there's been so much effort expended in introducing his character arc. Dying in the battle for Mereen seems too predictable a way to go (seriously, has any PoV or major character actually gone in a regular battle? I don't think so?). Also, so much of his storyline is tied to Dany, his hopes and aspirations for her, I don't think he'll die before reuniting with her somehow, and she's like to spend a significant chunk of this book on the Dothraki Sea, if she returns to Mereen at all. After all, Barristan's regrets are all tied into the Kings (and Rhaegar) he served who died, it would be fitting if he went out saving Dany. (Also, FWIW, I see GRRM's comments about grouping PoV characters together so he could kill some off as partially twisting our tails - yea, some will die, but I think he says stuff like that to work us up...) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Narvi Posted August 27, 2014 Share Posted August 27, 2014 Barristan the Boss isn't leaving us before returning to KL. The Tattered Prince will have to do what was asked of him to have any hope of living. As for Dany getting bent out of shape about any deals made, as long as the battle is won she won't care. Teen queens are fickle things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Varamyr6skins Posted October 11, 2014 Share Posted October 11, 2014 If Selmy hears that Rhaegar's son is still alive and fighting for the iron throne in westeros, Selmy will feel obligated to switch to Aegons side. Aegon being the rightful heir, Selmy swore a vow and is a man of his word Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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