Timing of Targaryen Obsession

[Gerion Lannister]

Is there any proof of a Targaryen being obsessed with the "Prince who was Promised" prophesy prior to the Dance of Dragons and subsequent reign of Aegon III (Dragonsbane)?

It would seem the frantic research of the prophesy, possibly starting with Aerys I, is done only to return dragons to Westeros.

Maester Aemon states the prophesy is extremely old, but it doesn't appear that any other Targaryen considered it prior to the death of the last dragon. It certainly doesn't appear to be the case from the reign of Aegon I to Aegon III.

Thoughts?

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

Wrong subforum :) Ask a moderator to move this to the general subforum

So far, it doesn't seem that one of the earlier Targaryens have been obsessed with the prophecy. I wouldn't call Aerys I "obsessed" either, since reading about a prophecy doesn't equal being obsessed about it.

[Gerion Lannister]

That's even more fascinating, if the correct statement is "Aerys I was the first Targaryen king to acknowledge the existence of the prophesy."

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

Well, the first one we know about who mihgt have known about the prophecy. But it is likely that Targaryens before had known about it as well. It seems the prophecy is rather old, and is specifically about a member of House Targaryen.

[Ibbison from Ibben]

We'll have to wait until we hear more from Archmaester Marwyn (or perhaps Roderick the Reader), but it's very possible that the PtwP prophesy was part of the seeings of Daenys the Dreamer, the daughter of Aenar Targaryen, whose dreams prompted Aenar to remove to Dragonstone before the Doom. Her insights were collected in the book Signs and Portents, but we don't have access to it.

So, to answer the OP, no proof, just speculation.

[Hrafntýr]

I do have my questions about the polygamy of Aegon, Rhaenys and Visenya, since it seems as if the prior Targaryen custom was for incest but not polygamy. If the prophecy said something about the dragon needing three heads, then this marriage may have been an attempt at fulfilling the prophecy. This is total speculation, of course, but the polygamy is an interesting innovation. And since the whole Targaryen coming to Westeros goes back to Daenys the Dreamer, and since Signs and Portents is said to be her collected visions (and interpretations?), perhaps it is the source of the "three heads" part of the prophecy? From what I gather from the available "history," Aegon/Rhaenys/Visenya would have been the first generation since Daenys' time that such a "trinity" would have been possible (though who knows what may have been going on with Aerion/Valaena/and whoever was the mother of Orys Baratheon).

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

I do have my questions about the polygamy of Aegon, Rhaenys and Visenya, since it seems as if the prior Targaryen custom was for incest but not polygamy. If the prophecy said something about the dragon needing three heads, then this marriage may have been an attempt at fulfilling the prophecy. This is total speculation, of course, but the polygamy is an interesting innovation. And since the whole Targaryen coming to Westeros goes back to Daenys the Dreamer, and since Signs and Portents is said to be her collected visions (and interpretations?), perhaps it is the source of the "three heads" part of the prophecy? From what I gather from the available "history," Aegon/Rhaenys/Visenya would have been the first generation since Daenys' time that such a "trinity" would have been possible (though who knows what may have been going on with Aerion/Valaena/and whoever was the mother of Orys Baratheon).

Lord Aenar Targaryen, who moved House Targaryen from Valyria to Dragonstone, also had multiple wives. Polygamy thus had been practiced before Aegon.

[Gerion Lannister]

My issue is that this prophesy existed for quite a while and no one cared. Once the Targaryen line of dragons died out, then the prophesy carried weight. Another case of prophesy is what you make of it.

Are the latter Targaryen kings who studied the prophesy concerned with fighting the impending darkness or are they preoccupied with bringing dragons back to life?

[Hrafntýr]

Lord Aenar Targaryen, who moved House Targaryen from Valyria to Dragonstone, also had multiple wives. Polygamy thus had been practiced before Aegon.

Yes, that's true. Do we know anything about those wives, e.g. whether they were also Targaryens or the timing of the marriages, relative to Daenys' visions? (I'm pretty sure we don't :frown5: I don't think we even know if Daenys and Gaemon had the same mother). But maybe he was the first to embark on the prophecy fulfillment breeding program? Though I suppose it's more likely that he was just embarking on a Targaryen survival breeding program...

ETA: Spoiler from yesterday's LonCon reading:

The following was in the quite excellent report from yesterday's LonCon reading:

"The Valyrians practiced incest. The dragonlords led the way, but the custom was not restricted to them. Sister to brother was supposed to be ideal, failing that uncle, aunts, nieces, nephews or cousins were chosen. Sorcerer princes also practiced polygamy, but that was not as common as incest."

So, I suppose this could be taken as evidence that Aenar was a "sorceror prince"...whatever that's supposed to mean! No idea if "sorcery" might somehow be related to effecting a prophesied outcome.

[Grievous]

Are the latter Targaryen kings who studied the prophesy concerned with fighting the impending darkness or are they preoccupied with bringing dragons back to life?

I don't think they necessarily see a difference between those two ideas. That might also partly explain why the earlier, dragonriding Targaryens weren't talking about the prophecy - being in their minds well on their way to fulfilling it.

[Wmarshal]

I don't think they necessarily see a difference between those two ideas. That might also partly explain why the earlier, dragonriding Targaryens weren't talking about the prophecy - being in their minds well on their way to fulfilling it.

Grievous, your Pic is awesome, where did you get it?

[Grievous]

Grievous, your Pic is awesome, where did you get it?

Patched it up myself from various images of the house emblems. It's my take on Rhaenyra's heraldry.

[Wmarshal]

Patched it up myself from various images of the house emblems. It's my take on Rhaenyra's heraldry.

It is awesome!!!

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

Yes, that's true. Do we know anything about those wives, e.g. whether they were also Targaryens or the timing of the marriages, relative to Daenys' visions? (I'm pretty sure we don't :frown5: I don't think we even know if Daenys and Gaemon had the same mother). But maybe he was the first to embark on the prophecy fulfillment breeding program? Though I suppose it's more likely that he was just embarking on a Targaryen survival breeding program...

ETA: Spoiler from yesterday's LonCon reading:

The following was in the quite excellent report from yesterday's LonCon reading:

"The Valyrians practiced incest. The dragonlords led the way, but the custom was not restricted to them. Sister to brother was supposed to be ideal, failing that uncle, aunts, nieces, nephews or cousins were chosen. Sorcerer princes also practiced polygamy, but that was not as common as incest."

So, I suppose this could be taken as evidence that Aenar was a "sorceror prince"...whatever that's supposed to mean! No idea if "sorcery" might somehow be related to effecting a prophesied outcome.

We know nothing about the wives, only that he had been married to multiple women when fleeing Valyria.

[Ibbison from Ibben]

My issue is that this prophesy existed for quite a while and no one cared. Once the Targaryen line of dragons died out, then the prophesy carried weight. Another case of prophesy is what you make of it.

Are the latter Targaryen kings who studied the prophesy concerned with fighting the impending darkness or are they preoccupied with bringing dragons back to life?

There are hints that a series of Targs have been interested in this prophesy. Aegon's decision to conquer Westeros may itself been a response to the prophesy, not just a desire to conquer. G Q Alysanne persuaded the NW to abandon the Nightfort, thus leaving the Black Gate unobserved. Daemon the UberTarg survived his duel with Aemond One-Eye (according to Ran) and ended up on the Isle of Faces amongst the Green Men, where he was visited by Adamm Verlaryon. Then we move on to Aerys I, Bloodraven, and eventually Aemon the Maester, Aegon V and Rhaegar. Again, all speculation, of course.

[Gerion Lannister]

I'm not sure if the Targaryens ever considered the Others or were aware they existed.

Aegon's conquest was the result of the original Storm King's rejection and reaction to Orys Baratheon's proposed marriage to Argilac's daughter.

Jaehaerys I flew north to fight a Wilding king and huge force that included giants. This battle could be seen as reinforcing the incorrect principle that Wall was built to protect Westeros from the Wildings.

The age of heroes was thousands of year prior to AC. Why would the Targaryens regard these stories as anything other than folk tales from the cultures they conquered?

[Grievous]

Jaehaerys I flew north to fight a Wilding king and huge force that included giants. This battle could be seen as reinforcing the incorrect principle that Wall was built to protect Westeros from the Wildings.

Alternatively, one could see it as one of the best Targaryen kings being keenly interested in the affairs of the utmost north, perhaps due to a prophecy... who knows.