Why are the Unsullied so specialized? Where do their puppies come from?

[Good Guy Garlan]

Am I a terrible, terrible, terrible, terrible, terrible person for thinking it would easier to kill a baby than a puppy?

[Universal Sword Donor]

Am I a terrible, terrible, terrible, terrible, terrible person for thinking it would easier to kill a baby than a puppy?

Not really. I'd expect a puppy to be far more mobile than a baby. Now a toddler, those would be tougher. Once babies start walking, who knows where they go?

[Good Guy Garlan]

Not really. I'd expect a puppy to be far more mobile than a baby. Now a toddler, those would be tougher. Once babies start walking, who knows where they go?

Puppies bite, though

[Universal Sword Donor]

Puppies bite, though

So do babies.

[Good Guy Garlan]

So do babies.

Yeah, you're right (getting echoes of "Charlie bit me!")

[Lord Reaver]

1) Because mustache-twirling

2) Puppy mills, one would assume

[GallowsKnight]

1. Aside from all the other practical reasons, one thing the Good Masters tried to do was stamp out invididuality and free thinking. If you have Unsullied in varied roles, then they start to think of themeselves as different, even if it's just Grey Worm - Unsullied Swordsman, versus Black Flea - Unsullied Archer.

As for horesmen, they'd have to care for their animals, which may inevitably cause feelings, which again is dangerous.

2. Puppy farms.

[Nihlus]

Not really. I'd expect a puppy to be far more mobile than a baby. Now a toddler, those would be tougher. Once babies start walking, who knows where they go?

I still think a puppy would be far harder to kill than a toddler. Toddlers are still relatively slow, whereas puppies are quick little guys.

I mean, only one out four make it through training? And they each kill one baby? So to 'produce' a batch of 8 000 Unsullied you need 40 000 persons? And you sell them, so you are continuously going through that process? And they are the core of your defense force? Both product and armed force. And you are willing to sell them all at once, leaving yourself undefended?

Don't forget 8,000 puppies! These slaves could be screwing like rabbits, and Astapor would STILL be turning out negative population growth. Heck, the number could be far larger than 40,000 still, as it is possible for an Unsullied to fail and be executed even if they already passed the baby killing phase. Same thing for the puppy killing phase.

The point about them selling their whole defense force is even weirder, because one of the slavers outright told Dany that she should try to profit off of sacking all of the surrounding cities.

[Universal Sword Donor]

I still think a puppy would be far harder to kill than a toddler. Toddlers are still relatively slow, whereas puppies are quick little guys.

Don't forget 8,000 puppies! These slaves could be screwing like rabbits, and Astapor would STILL be turning out negative population growth. Heck, the number could be far larger than 40,000 still, as it is possible for an Unsullied to fail and be executed even if they already passed the baby killing phase. Same thing for the puppy killing phase.

The point about them selling their whole defense force is even weirder, because one of the slavers outright told Dany that she should try to profit off of sacking all of the surrounding cities.

I meant to phrase it in that toddlers are quicker than babies, as they can walk and babies can't.

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

The point about them selling their whole defense force is even weirder, because one of the slavers outright told Dany that she should try to profit off of sacking all of the surrounding cities.

This is actually what has, I think, always bothered me the most about the whole thing. They sold her everything. They had no way of defending themselves once the transaction was done, not only from her, but from virtually any other force that happened to show up. I get that the reasoning was because they were so blind with greed at getting a dragon, but even that stretches the bounds of common sense. GRRM just needed Dany to get the army of super eunuchs, which I get, but the way it occurred doesn't make much sense if you think about it for more than 30 seconds.

I've long wondered if the Unsullied were really worth the cost of producing them. Granted I know they're obviously extremely expensive, but you're talking an input of two slaves for every successfully made Unsullied (the Unsullied himself and the child he killed), plus all the casualties related to those who die during training (and that's a sunk cost; dead slaves can't return their investment). Then you add in the thousands of dogs, plus the lost productivity (I'm guessing) of the families of the Unsullied and those they have to kill. That's just the manpower input, never mind the costs of training, arms, maintenance, etc. It also doesn't consider the future slaves (read: economic assets to these people) that these thousands of slaves would have produced if they hadn't been turned into Unsullied or been killed by the Unsullied, or the loss of flexibility (read: a scribe or a cook can be trained to do something else, but an Unsullied can't).

I also think it's hinted that the Unsullied's power can be mitigated. They've shown to be remarkably solid at defense (e.g. Qohor, acting as household guards), yes, but what Dany would need from them is more offense. They're susceptible to guerrilla tactics, which funnily enough both Dorne and the North, for example, excel at. Their unquestioning loyalty is all well and good, except that it means that they're really only as competent as the person commanding them. They're conditioned to withstand harsh weather, except that it seems impossible for them to have been conditioned against cold, let alone a blizzard, in Slaver's Bay. And they can't be restocked; once Dany loses the ones she has, that's it.

[nastydream]

(getting echoes of "Charlie bit me!")

:lmao:

[The_lost_arryn19]

The unsullied are given a certain drink that eliminates there feelings first off. Secondly the castration may prevent the proper growth of the boy Into the man but it gives the unsullied the exact desire effect. They have no semen to reproduce so their warlords don't have to worry about dynasty's trying to usurp authority over the unsullied. Also with the draught they drink and the castration it prevents them from putting their focus on anything other than battle and war. Most IMPORTANTLY the unsullied are so "special" because a phalanx of heavy spearmen that have dedicated their entire lives to perfecting their formations and presumably well armored (depending on who their masters are) as a vanguard can hold any westerosi army for a while by it's self. Yes a majority of westerosi armies are made up of a peasant levy despite what people want to think. Any poorly trained and poorly equipped peasant army would get crushed by such a force. In order to win though because of the obvious lack of diversity in the unsullied they would need to be supported by axe men and sword men with heavy cavalry to protect the flanks.

[Jasta11]

Does my puppy farm thing make sense?

Why not. We can breed fish nowadays, dogs aren't exactly harder than pigs or any other animal.

As for the Unsullied, they're pure fantasy, on the equal level of dragons and wargs. Were it not for the magical fear-destroying wine (as well as testosterone being apparently overrated on Planetos), their training regimen would produce PTSD-laden wrecks, not unbreakable supersoldiers. To say nothing of how incredibly wasteful they are at like 30 000 dead slaves for a batch of 8 000 Unsullied.

[No Song so Sweet]

I hate puppies

[zaphodbrx]

Slavers bay is one of the really weak points of Martin's work. It's obvious that the slavers are meant to be EEVILZ! and the unsullied are supposed to be a badass army that supports Dany. I doubt he put much thought into the economics of puppy selling.

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

To say nothing of how incredibly wasteful they are at like 30 000 dead slaves for a batch of 8 000 Unsullied.

This is what I mean when I say I wonder if the cost of producing them is worth what they bring in. There were thousands of them in the city when Dany was there, and yet we're led to believe that people mainly buy them in smaller batches of, say, 100. If it's unprecedented for Dany to buy so many at one time, why are so many of them available at one time? It's not like people are showing up constantly when Dany's there and buying them off in hunks. The Astapori say things like, "Oh so-and-so wants to buy some," but does it ever materialize? Is it just a marketing ploy to get Dany to commit?

Given that the sunk cost is so great, why sink that much into so many of them if you're not going to sell them all? Wouldn't it make more sense to sell the ones you already have before expending so much into creating more? That'd be like a baker having 500 loaves of bread at any one time even though he may only sell five loaves in a given day. If the Unsullied have been sold for hundreds of years, wouldn't the Astapori have a better sense of demand?

These dudes do not make sense, even within a fantasy context. From a microeconomic standpoint, they don't make sense. They're just a plot element included to give Dany a free army. Which, plot-wise, is what was necessary, but it doesn't make their ridiculousness any less pronounced.

[Good Guy Garlan]

I hate puppies

How does it feel to be dead inside?

[Universal Sword Donor]

How does it feel to be dead inside?

It feels much better than the dead puppy on my lap. Blood is everywhere and the people in my apartment won't stop screaming.

[Good Guy Garlan]

It feels much better than the dead puppy on my lap. Blood is everywhere and the people in my apartment won't stop screaming.

I don't know who you are. I don't know what you want. If you're looking for ransom, I can tell you I don't have money... but what I do have are a very particular set of skills. Skills I have acquired over a very long career. Skills that make me a nightmare for people like you. If you let my daughter puppy go now, that will be the end of it - I will not look for you, I will not pursue you... but if you don't, I will look for you, I will find you... and I will kill you.

[A Bastard Snow]

This is what I mean when I say I wonder if the cost of producing them is worth what they bring in. There were thousands of them in the city when Dany was there, and yet we're led to believe that people mainly buy them in smaller batches of, say, 100. If it's unprecedented for Dany to buy so many at one time, why are so many of them available at one time? It's not like people are showing up constantly when Dany's there and buying them off in hunks. The Astapori say things like, "Oh so-and-so wants to buy some," but does it ever materialize? Is it just a marketing ploy to get Dany to commit?

Given that the sunk cost is so great, why sink that much into so many of them if you're not going to sell them all? Wouldn't it make more sense to sell the ones you already have before expending so much into creating more? That'd be like a baker having 500 loaves of bread at any one time even though he may only sell five loaves in a given day. If the Unsullied have been sold for hundreds of years, wouldn't the Astapori have a better sense of demand?

These dudes do not make sense, even within a fantasy context. From a microeconomic standpoint, they don't make sense. They're just a plot element included to give Dany a free army. Which, plot-wise, is what was necessary, but it doesn't make their ridiculousness any less pronounced.

Lol so true.